Fighters under 1st Edition High Guard
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AnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
They still can't hit (penetrate Sand or Hull), because of the computer DM.
Warships can easily hit them, because no size DM and no Agility DM.
Not combat effective.
Warships can easily hit them, because no size DM and no Agility DM.
Not combat effective.
Depends on your combat.... I default to a Small Ship universe thus fighters are kinda scary.
In the Big ship universe look at the Screening rules, Yes Fighters are bullet catchers, but man can they screen.
AnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
Depends on your version of "Small Ship universe".
For a Free Trader, sure, a light fighter is perhaps scary.
For a 400 Dt Gazelle, a light fighter is barely a speed-bump.
Screening: Yes, since a ship can only target one or two fighters per round, and there is no auto-crit, it takes awhile to kill them.
For a Free Trader, sure, a light fighter is perhaps scary.
For a 400 Dt Gazelle, a light fighter is barely a speed-bump.
Screening: Yes, since a ship can only target one or two fighters per round, and there is no auto-crit, it takes awhile to kill them.
One to one they don't look so tough, but consider fighters tend to operate in groups. Four fighters versus a Gazelle Is more than even fight. Again this depends on your rules set. Meaning Book2 fighters are much scarier than either edition of Book5.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Plus the fighter can get in close and use its factor 6 m-drive as an energy weapon...
AnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
With a comp m/1 and a DM -6 to penetrate, they will still have a hard time hitting anything.
But, agreed: a few thousand fighters should have little problem scraping the weapons off a battleship at a fraction of the cost, unless the BB has enough Sand to make penetration impossible.
As the BB can only attack a few fighters, the fighters are practically immune to counter-fire.
Effectively a BB needs a factor 9 sandcaster (9 triple turrets per thousand Dton), and hence very limited offensive weapons, to be survivable against light fighters.
To make the fighters capable of penetrating sand-9, they would only have to have a m/3 computer, adding a few Dton and at least 100% cost.
A thousand unarmed comp m/3 fighters would produce ~8 damage rolls per attack, so roughly 10 weapon hits and 8 M-drive hits. So, three-four thousand fighters would mission-kill any possible ship in a single attack (or much fewer if it doesn't have Sand-9). The ship can't fire back effectively, regardless of how many weapons it has.
Note: The armament of the fighter is completely irrelevant, as it is low-factor and can't penetrate without a much larger computer...
And again the conclusion is: HG'79 is a completely ridiculous system...
AnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
Four fighters is still a speed-bump against anything with a decent computer. We need large amounts of fighters to scrape the weapons off a ship.
As a thousand Dton ship has about the same offensive and defensive capability as a million Dton ship, the worst case for the fighters is a decent thousand Dton ship costing perhaps GCr 1. An equal value carrier + fighters combo would be something like 20 fighters?
The fighters would struggle to produce a single hit every round, whereas the ship would produce several, I guess. That might possibly be a reasonable fight?
Of course, no ship would be seriously damaged, a few weeks in the yard to repair the weapons and M-drive, and they are fighting fit again... The ship could use nukes to kill a few pilots, and perhaps even fighters.
LBB2 combat is a completely different game.
I suspect a ship could keep the range high and use its superior computer to generate hits, and deny the fighters much of a chance of hitting.
AnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
As boarding only requires the ship to be immobilised, and that is easier than completely scraping the weapons off, swarms of Ship's Boats with medium computers and loaded with marines might be quite effective?
If the ship is captured, it's a permanent loss for the enemy, something basic fighters have a problem causing.
If the ship is captured, it's a permanent loss for the enemy, something basic fighters have a problem causing.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
HG79 maxes out at computer 7.
AnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
Agreed, it's the same function, whether scaled to m/7 (LBB5'79) or m/9 (LBB5'80).
Outside of an outer orbit battle with a planet as a base, you need to consider the costs of the carrier in this equation. There's also a manpower issue. The efficiency of 1 man with a Factor 3 weapon on a fighter, vs 1 man on a factor 9 battery on a starship.
AnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
Agreed, carriers should be included in the fighter cost.
A thousand light fighters cost about GCr 10, and a BB hundreds of GCr: There is plenty of room for the carrier(s), while still being cheaper than the BB.
HG'79 does not work that way, each turret still needs a gunner, as far as I understand. A BB needs thousands of gunners, and thousands more other crew.
Fighters use less manpower, but will probably lose more crew, in the region of a few against none for the BB.
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