10 questions to ask Joe Fugate

[aramis]

Mal: wasn't just your group. I played in it with a GM who had no feel for aliens... nor drama like in the early bits of Alien... so it came off flat. and I *LOVE* the Pre-TNE OTU...

It needs a REF who can deliver well on both the trophes of the setting and the Vvarious NPC's, both Human and Vargr.

 

[Malenfant]

Originally posted by Aramis:
It needs a REF who can deliver well on both the trophes of the setting and the Vvarious NPC's, both Human and Vargr.

And players who can get excited at the thought of finding rooms full of flashing lights and an alien in a drawer

 

[mike wightman]

If you want to instill some fear in your players at the thought of being chased down by Vargr then don't play on their comical presentation. Concentrate instead on the combat armour wearing, Crinos form werewolf that's about to tear you limb from limb and then eat your marrow

 

[Flynn]

Or place your PCs at risk for slaughtering a pack leader's child, then make the PCs beholden to the pack leader for not killing them outright, and then promise to make it all better if they'll just deliver "this one little package" across the subsector to a friend of the family (the package being a 100ton bay weapon). Oh, and then have the pack leader tell the rest of his kind what he's doing, so that other packs will hunt the PCs down in transit and force them to misjump to some backwater planet where colonists camp out in the path of swarming insects that eat everything they can reach...

Well, at least that's what my PBEM Referee is doing to our group right now. Needless to say, I don't like Vargr anymore.

More later,
Flynn

BTW, the game is awesome. Thanks, Ron, for running it, and I look forward to eventually getting out from under the Vargr's thumb...

 

[vutpakdi]

Originally posted by Flynn:
Or place your PCs at risk for slaughtering a pack leader's child, then make the PCs beholden to the pack leader for not killing them outright, and then promise to make it all better if they'll just deliver "this one little package" across the subsector to a friend of the family (the package being a 100ton bay weapon). Oh, and then have the pack leader tell the rest of his kind what he's doing, so that other packs will hunt the PCs down in transit and force them to misjump to some backwater planet where colonists camp out in the path of swarming insects that eat everything they can reach...

Well, at least that's what my PBEM Referee is doing to our group right now. Needless to say, I don't like Vargr anymore.

Now, now, now. It's not quite that bad. After all, it's only a 50 dTon bay weapon. Besides, you make it sound like the whole series of events is the result of some deeply planned story arc.

Ron

 

[Whipsnade]

Sigg Oddra wrote:

If you want to instill some fear in your players at the thought of being chased down by Vargr then don't play on their comical presentation. Concentrate instead on the combat armour wearing, Crinos form werewolf that's about to tear you limb from limb and then eat your marrow.

Mr. Oddra,

That's how we ran it. Antiquity wasn't some standard dungeon crawl, it was a dungeon crawl with sophonts who were going to kill you. DGP even suggests this their players' notes, specifically the scene in which the Vargr find an improved Varg in stasis and go beserk. The Vargr have all the guns and all you have is Aybee's laser welder.

Keep these points in mind:

- The Vargr leader is a high charisma pseudo-scientist who is used to purloining ideas and discoveries from his low charisma underlings. Krenstein doesn't fit into the Vargr social pattern and Krenstein is a better scientist than the Vargr leader will ever be thus making Krenstein a huge threat to the Vargr leader's control of the group. If Krenstein 'shines' too much after the dungeon crawl begins, he could certainly suffer from an 'accident'.

- Most of the Vargr, and all of the ones with guns, are 'high church' believers in the tenets of the Church of the Chosen Ones. They know that the Vargr were engineered by the Ancients to be perfect and to rule over all other sophonts. For them, finding the neo-Vargr in stasis is like a member of the Spanish Inquisition finding Christ's skeleton and marriage certifciate or a Muslim finding a handwritten statement from Mohammed that 'it was all a joke'. Saying it is a shock to the system is putting it mildly. As the DGP notes state, one Vargr screams "THIS MUST NOT BE!" They're going to kill every witness they can get their paws on.

So, you've got the Varg leader contemplating 'accidents' out of fear for his power and you have Vargr religious zealots ready to rub out any witnesses once the Wrong Thing(tm) is found.

For my group, that was fun. For other groups, it isn't. Different strokes and all. I know a fellow who runs wildly cinematic Traveller campaigns; psionic cyborgs, jump missiles, handheld PGMPs, etc. He and his group eat it up and have loads of fun. My old group would not have liked it as much. Different strokes and all.

After dealing with the Vargr, figuring out how to 'loot' Antiquity was a nice change. The players planned that bit as much has they had planned taking out the Vargr. It gave the adventure a feel of 'two styles in one'.


Sincerely,
Larsen

 

[jchurchill]

The Vargr? Never liked the Vargr very much. "The Vargr begin at Calais" as my batman used to say. Harrumph harrumph.

 

[Malenfant]

What was so "wrong" about finding a Vargr in the drawer though? Didn't everyone know by then that the Vargr were uplifted from Terran canines?

(I don't have the adventure here to check, it's back in the UK)

 

[jchurchill]

What was so "wrong" about finding a Vargr in the drawer though? Didn't everyone know by then that the Vargr were uplifted from Terran canines?
===============================================
Everyone except members of the Vargr Church of the Chosen Ones. Any religious fanatic that suddenly finds the whole basis for his or her belief refuted before their own eyes is bound to take it...in a bad way. To say the least.

 

[jchurchill]

It's almost as bad as nudging a Vargr husband when one sees his wife and says "Hubba hubba, how much is that doggie in the window?"

The evening is bound to end badly for someone.

 

[theSea]

Originally posted by secretagent:
It's almost as bad as nudging a Vargr husband when one sees his wife and says "Hubba hubba, how much is that doggie in the window?"

worse yet:

"Hey, nice b*tch!"


Joe--

Thanks so much for hanging out and letting us in on stuff. In the last year or so I discovered e-bay and decided to resurrect my Traveller collection.

My buy list was "as much GDW and FASA stuff as I could get my hands on and EVERY single DGP Traveller product." I'm still looking for 101 Robots, and the two CT Census books, but other than that mission accomplished. Thanks for some excellent products!

-mja-

 

[Flynn]

Malenfant, I believe that people did know that the Vargr were uplifted. However, here's a bunch of Vargr that believe that they were created in a state of perfection, in much the same way that different people in our own world's past felt that God had created them in a state of perfection, superior to all others.

Then they see a flawed Vargr, and it shatters their beliefs... they weren't created perfect. They're the end result of experimentation and such. No divine providence. No inspired creation. They aren't special. Really pushes that inferiority complex that Vargrs seem to have over the edge, particularly for those of these specific religious beliefs.

At least, that's my interpretation of it,
Flynn

 

[jzeitlin]

Originally posted by Elliot:
Dear Mr Fugate

Can I say a big thank you for your answers - its like birthdays and christmas all rolled into one (from a traveller perspective that is

) - please keep the answers coming.

Although I've come to this thread quite late, I'd like to second this sentiment - it is a rare occasion that we can get this sort of insight into the 'heart and soul' of Our Game, and such opportunities are to be treasured.

Thank you!

 

[Whipsnade]

Malenfant asked:

What was so "wrong" about finding a Vargr in the drawer though? Didn't everyone know by then that the Vargr were uplifted from Terran canines?

Dr. Thomas,

Let me snip the part of my previous post that explains this:

Most of the Vargr, and all of the ones with guns, are 'high church' believers in the tenets of the Church of the Chosen Ones. They know that the Vargr were engineered by the Ancients to be perfect and to rule over all other sophonts. For them, finding the neo-Vargr in stasis is like a member of the Spanish Inquisition finding Christ's skeleton and marriage certifciate or a Muslim finding a handwritten statement from Mohammed that 'it was all a joke'.

Seeing the neo-Vargr destroyed in an instant the Vargrs' entire belief system. A belief system that 'tells' them they are superior to everyone else. Get it?

When you do get your copy of the adventure sent to you, take the time to re-read it. DGP lays this all out in the Players' Notes. It isn't something we made up, the adventure was designed with this in mind.


Sincerely,
Larsen

 

[Malenfant]

Originally posted by Larsen E. Whipsnade:
Seeing the neo-Vargr destroyed in an instant the Vargrs' entire belief system. A belief system that 'tells' them they are superior to everyone else. Get it?

So the "neo-Vargr" is flawed in some way? From the sound of what people have said here its existence doesn't do anything to change the belief that the Vargr were created "perfect" as the "chosen ones" of the Ancients.

When you do get your copy of the adventure sent to you, take the time to re-read it. DGP lays this all out in the Players' Notes. It isn't something we made up, the adventure was designed with this in mind.

I really don't care enough to get it sent to me.

 

[Whipsnade]

Malenfant asked:

So the "neo-Vargr" is flawed in some way? From the sound of what people have said here its existence doesn't do anything to change the belief that the Vargr were created "perfect" as the "chosen ones" of the Ancients.

Dr. Thomas,

Let me try again...

The neo-Vargr is in a specimen drawer in what is obviously an Ancient geneering lab. The neo-Vargr has six fingers and no tail. The neo-Vargr obviously superior to the Vargr, hence the prefix 'neo'. It's proof that the Ancients were still tinkering with the Vargr up until the time when the Final War stopped their efforts.

So, despite the claims of their Church, the Vargr are not the final, most perfect product of the Ancients. The proof of this is laying there in the specimen drawer.

I really don't care enough to get it sent to me.

Oh. Sorry we all answered your questions about it then.

By the way, if you think the normal Vargr got miffed, the contents of the specimen drawer really angered the Vargr of the Low Kaenguerradz school. However, that story is for another day.


Sincerely,
Larsen

 

[Falkayn]

Originally posted by Larsen E. Whipsnade:
By the way, if you think the normal Vargr got miffed, the contents of the specimen drawer really angered the Vargr of the Low Kaenguerradz school. However, that story is for another day.

Drat! Made me look. Score one for Larsen.

Kaenguerradz
Core supremacist litugy of the Church of the Chosen Ones. Interpretation of its commandments vary widely between Church factions, as is the exact nature of Vargr "supremacy." Most modern interpretations now accept as faith the views and convictions of other sophont species, and limits the church's mission to diplomatic contact with these groups. At the other extreme some radical groups have returned to its original pure racist doctrine, but thes groups are mostly confined to the Vargr Wilds, namely surviving corsair bands.

 

[Malenfant]

Originally posted by Larsen E. Whipsnade:
[QB]The neo-Vargr is in a specimen drawer in what is obviously an Ancient geneering lab. The neo-Vargr has six fingers and no tail. The neo-Vargr obviously superior to the Vargr, hence the prefix 'neo'. It's proof that the Ancients were still tinkering with the Vargr up until the time when the Final War stopped their efforts.

Oh, now I get it.

So, despite the claims of their Church, the Vargr are not the final, most perfect product of the Ancients. The proof of this is laying there in the specimen drawer.

Though what evidence did they have that the neo-Vargr wasn't a failed experiment, and the real ones weren't "perfect" after all?

Oh. Sorry we all answered your questions about it then.

Why are you apologising? I had people here to answer questions born of fuzzy memory and idle curiosity.

 

[daryen]

Originally posted by Larsen E. Whipsnade:
The neo-Vargr is in a specimen drawer in what is obviously an Ancient geneering lab. The neo-Vargr has six fingers and no tail. The neo-Vargr obviously superior to the Vargr, hence the prefix 'neo'. It's proof that the Ancients were still tinkering with the Vargr up until the time when the Final War stopped their efforts.

Out of idle curiousity, how was the neo-Vargr "obviously superior"?

As a side point, "neo" merely means "new", not "superior". So, are we to assume that the neo-Vargr was actually a later "version" of what became the surviving strain of Vargr?

(And if you have that copy handy, *I* wouldn't mind reading it.)

 

[Whipsnade]

Originally posted by Malenfant:
Oh, now I get it.

Dr. Thomas,

I knew you would, once I finally explained it correctly!

Though what evidence did they have that the neo-Vargr wasn't a failed experiment, and the real ones weren't "perfect" after all?

Timing. The Antiquity site was stonked during the Final War and the Vargr had been placed on Lair prior to the Final War. Therefore, the neo-Vargr was geneered after the Vargr were and the Ancients must have been doing so for a reason.


Sincerely,
Larsen