100 diameters and space battles

[barfoo]

I'm curious how important you think the 100 diameter limit is visavi space battles?
To me, all space battles have been shorter range than the typical 100 planetary diameter and as there are no jump points, just a minimum distance so why no battles really take place at or near jump entry / exit. So, when you play, do you just 'You exit hyperspace. Move in towards the <planet/moon etc> when your passive sensors pick up something".

There, space battle, derelict investigation, customs evasion take place, possibly gamed out. Is that how you usually do it?

I'm thinking of adding rules for jumping etc in Intercept and thinking I will use one tenth the jump diameter distances I the OTU, 10-ish diameters for safe jumping and 1-ish diameter as absolute minimum. To be able to play out going from planet to jump and vice versa fitting on a mapsheet of the game. Gasgiants will be about 10 times the ranges and fit neatly in the 10x larger scale system.

Any thoughts?

 

[Condottiere]

It's like the offside rule, they can't jump behind you.

 

[whartung]

Well, arguably there's nothing interesting worth fighting over outside of 100D.

Battles will take place at the target of interest, not necessarily deep space.

Traders will transit out to the 100D limit and jump, they have no need to be in deep space.

Few facilities of interest to a military attack will likely be in deep space, so little reason for them to go hunting them down (there could always be ye olde Secret Base in the asteroids, but those are edge cases).

The best example will be some very large jump blocked area, that may be outside of 100D, that a Trader or some other ship is trying to travel through in order to jump. They can't jump because of an intervening object (like the star), not the 100D diameter of where they left.

So, that's an example where you might find some combat in deep space.

 

[mike wightman]

What are the weapon ranges in your ship combat system? How long is a combat round?

 

[barfoo]

What are the weapon ranges in your ship combat system? How long is a combat round?

A turn is 15 minutes, a square on 10 000 km, 1G is a vector change of 1 square per turn.
There is also a second larger scale with 1 hour turns, 100 000 km squares and 1G still a vector change of 1 square per turn.

Weapon ranges are up up to 30 000 km or so for lasers, longer ranges for bay and spinal mount particle weapons. Missiles go from 60 000 km or so and up depending on missile size and how you build them. For 'civilian' encounters, traders, smugglers, pirates and the like, combat ranges are up to 3 squares for lasers and up to 6 squares for missiles.

 

[maksimsmelchak]

I'm curious how important you think the 100 diameter limit is vis a vis space battles?

Pretty darn important.

Hard to park a lot of ships within the 100 diameter limit quickly since relativistic drives are required. That essentially denies easy strategic mobility within systems, making them fairly defensible grounds as far as open-range combats go. SDB's can then rule such areas.

Seems to have pretty important tactical and strategic implications, but I am not a navy man.

To me, all space battles have been shorter range than the typical 100 planetary diameter and as there are no jump points, just a minimum distance so why no battles really take place at or near jump entry / exit. So, when you play, do you just 'You exit hyperspace. Move in towards the <planet/moon etc> when your passive sensors pick up something".

Not sure where you get that idea.

The 100+ diameter area is a place of regular traffic. I can't imagine that combat wouldn't take place there.

I think it's just more that few authors have really run with the idea yet.

There, space battle, derelict investigation, customs evasion take place, possibly gamed out. Is that how you usually do it?

Why not?

I'm thinking of adding rules for jumping etc in Intercept and thinking I will use one tenth the jump diameter distances I the OTU, 10-ish diameters for safe jumping and 1-ish diameter as absolute minimum. To be able to play out going from planet to jump and vice versa fitting on a mapsheet of the game. Gasgiants will be about 10 times the ranges and fit neatly in the 10x larger scale system.

Any thoughts?

Sounds plausible and clever. Please do share what you develop.

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Civilian traffic can arrive well outside the 100D limit. Astrogation is precise, but not foolproof.

Outgoing traffic can jump within the 100D limit, it's a bit unsafe, but probably better than being shot to pieces.


An invading fleet arrives a ship at a time over many hours. It will probably arrive far enough into clear space so that a defending fleet cannot intercept and kill the incoming ships one at a time as they arrive.

 

[Timerover51]

One problem with space battles, especially if close to a planet is the amount of debris that is going to be left over, some of it in orbit, and some of it in gradually decaying orbits approaching the planet's outer atmosphere, and part of it sailing off into deep space, for some unsuspecting ship to run into.

 

[Condottiere]

Scavengers would cherry pick the wreckage; should hire a professional.

 

[wbyrd]

The 100 D Limit is a good fall back position for system defense boats etc...the enemy can't approach without considering the fact they will be losing the ability to quickly jump away if things go wrong.

Also if a relief forces shows up the invaders are no pinned between planet based, and local forces, and the arriving relief force. which could jump in "behind the planet hidden by the bulk of the planet from sensors.

that threat requires the invaders task ship to take up positions to monitor the blind side of the planet and defend those ships from blinding attacks against their observation vessels/drone/sattilites


as for after action clean up...that would require some specialized gear. even the fist-sized bits and pieces would be lethal to incoming shipping.So you would literally have to track every nut and bolt until they either fell into the gravity well, drifted away, or were swept up by the cleaners.

 

[barfoo]

One problem with space battles, especially if close to a planet is the amount of debris that is going to be left over, some of it in orbit, and some of it in gradually decaying orbits approaching the planet's outer atmosphere, and part of it sailing off into deep space, for some unsuspecting ship to run into.

I think this will be far less of a problem in Traveller than in reality at our tech. The main problem with space debris is high velocity, that and the flimsy hulls of spacecraft. In Traveller the impulse drives can easily match anything in orbit at short notice. And any debris from space battles will have velocities far exceeding escape velocity of a planet so debris won't remain. Lower tech levels is a different matter. Playing Intercept with TL 7-8 ships and dead ships often remain orbiting the planet of the fight.

 

[aramis]

One problem with space battles, especially if close to a planet is the amount of debris that is going to be left over, some of it in orbit, and some of it in gradually decaying orbits approaching the planet's outer atmosphere, and part of it sailing off into deep space, for some unsuspecting ship to run into.

Technically, already has been... in live fire tests.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GS_5VOEcKs0 (CNN video)