1248

[daryen]

Based on what MJD has already written, Virus has many forms. And lots of them don't get along. Black Imperium (i.e. the Curtain) obviously has a type of Virus, but it appears to be different from our generic Virus we all know and hate.

Same for the Dominate. It has Virus somehow involved, but it is again different from the generic Virus mentioned above.

Plus, we also know that there will be some forms of Virus that will be allies and partners with Humaniti.

As for tech level, I would be looking for TL E-F for the Fourth Imperium. There are too many jump caches (or whatever they were called) and too much access to Regency technology (which includes a significant portion of TL G).

 

[notagoodusername]

Originally posted by daryen:
Based on what MJD has already written, Virus has many forms. And lots of them don't get along.

TNE's Vampire Fleets said much the same thing. Particularly with regard to a lot of migration of single ships and small groups down the Vampire Highway to escape from the Puppetmasters that were overwriting them.

Shane

 

[kafka47]

Would someone refresh my memory what are the different strains of the Virus? I seem to remember something about a Sandman cooperating with the RC.

So, what we are concluding is that the virus has a distinct habitat and is being to fill in different ecological niches much as organic life had done for millenia?

 

[daryen]

I don't think that we need to know the different "types" of Virus at this point, as most of the initial, insane variants will likely have died out.

What is left are various sane, stable versions of Virus with their own desires, goals, and agendas. I don't think that there are "habitats", so much as the stable versions of Virus are sentient creatures, with all that implies. I don't even think that there are really even "types" of Virus anymore. Instead, each "instance" of stable Virus is actually a living, thinking being. (Notice I didn't say "breathing".

)

Some will be "good guys", many will be "bad guys". But there is still plenty of conflict between various "bad guys".

 

[notagoodusername]

Originally posted by kafka47:
Would someone refresh my memory what are the different strains of the Virus? I seem to remember something about a Sandman cooperating with the RC.

So, what we are concluding is that the virus has a distinct habitat and is being to fill in different ecological niches much as organic life had done for millenia?

Here ya go Kafka....

****SPOILERS FOR TNE PLAYERS THAT HAVEN'T READ THE BOOKS****

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Type:
1 Suicider - the basic type, kills own software

1a Suicide Inducer - infects other computers
with a Suicider, does not suicide

2 Samson - a Suicider that also destroys the hardware

2A Destroyer - destroy everything except self

2B Reproducer - destroy anything it cannot infect

2C Doomslayer - a Destroyer that identifies targets for destruction base on a
(warpded) ethos

2D Reproducing Doomslayer - as a 2C, but only things it cannot infect

3 Empire Builder - takes over systems and controls them as one big hive
mind, otherwise like a 2B

3A Alliance Builder - creates alliances with other individual virused
computers for some purpose

4 Puppeteer - overwrites other virus computers with thier own
code, an evolved strain 3

5 Parent - virus that exercises an equivilent of sexual
reproduction, combining its code with another to make a 'child'

X Hobbyist - virus that infects a very specialist computer
and keeps that computers purpose (e.g. a computer that infects a deep
space observatory and continues watching stars), usually peaceful
as they are disinterested in anything else

XA Mother - virus that comes to look over its slaves as children,
and is a protective but often harsh, controlling mother figure

XB God - as XA, but viewing slaves as subjects to its often
callous godhood and requiring worship

?? Peacemaker - A fully evolved and sain virus devoted to
coexistance with all other forms of life (Sandman)</pre>[/QUOTE]Hope this helps,

Shane

 

[kaladorn]

I had a hard time reading that. I wish someone would set the default size attribute for 'quotes' one level bigger.

 

[William]

Originally posted by Shane Mclean:
[

Here ya go Kafka....

****SPOILERS FOR TNE PLAYERS THAT HAVEN'T READ THE BOOKS****

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Type:

<Just out of S&G, is there a place in canon that describes this variant? I'm missing alot, so I'm just curious what I should look for first.>

?? Peacemaker - A fully evolved and sain virus devoted to
coexistance with all other forms of life (Sandman)</pre>[/QUOTE]Hope this helps,

Shane [/QB][/QUOTE]

Thanks,

William

 

[notagoodusername]

The Peacemaker (a sane virus, not a sain one - bloody typing..

) is detailed in Vampire Fleets.


Shane

 

[DED]

Originally posted by daryen:
As for tech level, I would be looking for TL E-F for the Fourth Imperium. There are too many jump caches (or whatever they were called) and too much access to Regency technology (which includes a significant portion of TL G).

I think that your TL expectations are a little high. From what I've heard, the Regency Civil War slows down progress and even causes a few setbacks. The average Regency TL is probably going to be down a couple of notches. A high TL Regency would be too dominant in post-1202 Charted Space.

Also, keep in mind that TL 11-12 is considered to be "average Imperial". Of course there were lots of worlds with TLs higher than that. But since TL 11-12 is "average", I would think that most jumpstart caches are going to be geared towards that TL as well. I'm sure that there will be some caches with greater TL capabilities but they will likely be fewer in number.

Another factor could be the percentage of caches that were destroyed over time. Of course the designers of the caches intended them to survive the tumult of time and war, but direct hits or unforeseen natural disasters could take their toll.

And then the caches have to still be found (they tend to be a secret) and accessed. I do recall reading somewhere that the 3I didn't want the technology to fall into the wrong hands/claws/tentacles etc. so safeguards were put in place to screen out would be ne'er-do-wells.

I don't know what sort of algorithms Martin intends to use for recovery time, even with a jumpstart cache. How long would it take a world to go from TL 8 to TL 12 under optimum conditions?

I think that the 4I will average TL 10-11 with a peak of 13. Of course, only Martin knows the answer to that one.

 

[daryen]

While I do agree that the operating TL may drop somewhat (to maybe 10-12 instead of 12-13), the top TL should still be 14 if not 15 for the Fourth Imperium.

The group that becomes the Fourth Imperium has the advantage of partial Virus defense and absolute knowledge of the caches. Probably knowledge of any self-defense mechanisms in those caches, too. I would be very surprised if they were anything less than TL 14.

The Regency rips itself apart, yes, but it has massive TL 15 base that is quite likely to be mostly untouched even with its difficulties. If either Mora or Vincennes come through relatively untouched, the group (or groups) that control them will still have access to TL 16.

Besides those two, there are 5 TL 14 and 6 TL 15 hi pop worlds in Deneb, 1 and 3 in Reft, and 3 and 6 in the Spinward Marches. If even a quarter of those survive, whichever government keeps them as members will still have significant access to TL 14 and 15 technology.

Also, I imagine some of its remnants will still be friendly with the Darrians and their TL16 technology. (Remember, Vincennes, Mora, and Darrian are all TL 16 "for real" in TNE.)

 

[savage]

Its not unreasonable to assume that TL has reached TL16 for key worlds not hit by combat. War breads inovation and to the winner goes the spoils.

I'm a big, fan of Fred Saberhagen's The Berserker Wars. Their inability to develop FTL travel slowed down the decimation of all mankind. This 4th Imperium appears to be more delusional Borg like instead of human hating machines.
On that note, I find it difficult to believe the Vilani would send in their entire fleet w/o an expeditionary force...kinda blows that anal Vilani theory.

Savage

 

[Anthony]

Originally posted by Savage:
Its not unreasonable to assume that TL has reached TL16 for key worlds not hit by combat. War breads inovation and to the winner goes the spoils.

A common truism, which is, however, not true. War tends to breed innovation in weapons; however, by tying up a lot of resources it tends to slow things down outside of the weapon field. Also, innovations in weapons are increasingly irrelevant outside of the field of weapons.

You can reasonably argue that 'key worlds not hit by combat' are pretty much non-existent. No world that isn't Hi-pop can reasonably avoid loss of technology due to failures of trade, and a Hi-pop world at TL 16 is a sufficient center of power that it wouldn't have taken until 1248 for the Imperium to be re-established.

 

[daryen]

Uh, the Regency had *two* hi-pop TL16 worlds. And one of them quite likely saw no conflict (Vincennes). Mora probably saw some combat, but was likely not devistated.

Darrian, which at this point is true TL16, also is completely unscathed.

In addition to that, there are 15 hi-pop TL15 worlds in the Regency. I doubt that *all* of them become smoking ruins. (I seriously doubt just about any of them do.)

Likewise, given what MJD has already said about Usdiki, I doubt it lost significant TL.

 

[kafka47]

The Usdiki Peacekeepers are Stephon's guys who go about Chartered Space raiding Depots (TL-15), right? So it is reasonable that any planet with a High Pop cluster & reasonable tech (TL D/E) would be able to make a swift jump to G, to offset the virus.

I would agree with some of the others being war as bing an impetus but here were talking about a Collapse.

 

[savage]

You can reasonably argue that 'key worlds not hit by combat' are pretty much non-existent. No world that isn't Hi-pop can reasonably avoid loss of technology due to failures of trade, and a Hi-pop world at TL 16 is a sufficient center of power that it wouldn't have taken until 1248 for the Imperium to be re-established. --- anthony

Well sure. Many core Regency worlds avoided direct assault. The Aslan entry was an etirely different problem.
Its not the time during the war that the tech level jumps but just after. There are also two points if your valuable (aka japan wwii) someone rebuilds you and your better off. If your the west coast of the us money and trade flow through you re-enforcing the infrastructure. IF you build a ship per day you can eventually convert to building traders....and make credits, do more research...etc.
When the Rebellion ended and the Virus hit the regency was dumping govt creds into defenses vs computer virus...and other issues...new borders..new transport routes. They would've had a heck of a deficit. But probably came out on top.

This is where I believe canon goes nuts. They dump nobles (very dumb), undermine the navy, walk over top of the sword worlds casually.....
But 1202, TL16 worlds sure...1212 definately

This really side steps the massive issue. Is canon depicting a complete fantasy for the sake of fun, would it be fun?
Would Vilani commit their entire resources for an unprovoked attack against Virus w/out knowing Virus resources first...I doubt it. Would virus become borg or berzerker. Neither... both... All I can say is that the beauty of virus was its desention and infighting. If it unifies with jump capable ships kiss post 1248 away because known space will be Virus..by 1300...very boring. Ya see machines have infinite growth economies. Its purely a measure of how quick it grows.
Also note that they have 3 ready-made slightly dented depots.

 

[DED]

Maybe I've interpreted what Martin said about the Regency Civil War differently than you guys. Maybe I haven't. Granted there isn't too much on that bone to gnaw on. However, I got the impression that most, if not all, of the Regency worlds were affected. While maybe not Darrian, I would wager that Vincennes and Mora were affected and that the Regency's technological progress was impeded by the war.

I guess we'll have to wait for Martin to throw us a meatier bone to settle that question.