2 Days of Fuel Left

[RKFM]

Say you have 2 days of fuel left for your PP and you enter Jump Space. Do you hold your breath for 5 days? Precipitate out of Jump Space?

Clearly Classic Traveller doesn't distinguish between the fuel spent on life support etc. and that on Maneuver drive usage. But what do you think would be the consequences of entering Jump Space without enough fuel to power the PP during the jump?

 

[Imperial Planetologist]

But what do you think would be the consequences of entering Jump Space without enough fuel to power the PP during the jump?

A cold, lonely death.

 

[Spinward Scout]

VaccSuit-up and plug your air hoses into the ship's oxygen lines. That way you only use as much oxygen as needed. Only get out of the VaccSuit to eat (and not completely then) and use the bathroom. Seal any unused rooms. Shut off the gravity. If you have a Grav vehicle on board you can drain the battery from that if neccessary. Shut down all unneccessary power aboard ship and with a nice Referee (and a few lucky engineering rolls/checks), you might just make it. I'm sure something like this would only happen in an emergency.

 

[far-trader]

It'll depend on how you figure jump drives work.

All you boys and girls who like and use the jump grid method are going to be in jump for two days then the power goes off and your ship is exposed to jump space and you die as the alien physics annihilates your physics, presumably. No one really knows for sure but nobody has ever come back.

Before the idea of a jump grid (and perhaps coincidentally) the need for a power plant for the jump drive (1st ed LBB2 you only needed the jump drive to jump) I'd say you survive. Or rather the ship will. This would be the slow cold death noted above. After 2 days your powerplant runs out of fuel and you lose life support. Now depending on the physics of jump space again you may very quickly reach near absolute zero (barring very good vacc suits). Or perhaps jump space is an excellent insulator and you won't get much colder (but then one wonders how you keep from melting while actually powered up... ) and only have to worry about food and air. You could jump in a lowberth or take some fast drug. The important thing is your ship will be fine and at the appropriate time safely come out of jump space. You just have to live long enough to be there, and then worry about how you get help in real space without fuel and power for stuff like thrusters and radio.

I prefer the second (even where the jump drive needs a powerplant, which I figure is just for the initial insertion) universe. It makes those inevitable misjumps that keep you in jump space for 1D6 weeks more survivable and interesting.

EDIT: Right, the emergency batteries. Almost forgot. CT does include a note (Starship Malfunctions - LBB2 pg6) that "Batteries will provide life support and basic lighting for 1D days." So your 2 days of fuel plus a roll of 5 on that D6 will safely see you through jump.

 

[savage]

MT

VaccSuit-up and plug your air hoses into the ship's oxygen lines. That way you only use as much oxygen as needed. Only get out of the VaccSuit to eat (and not completely then) and use the bathroom. Seal any unused rooms. Shut off the gravity. If you have a Grav vehicle on board you can drain the battery from that if neccessary. Shut down all unneccessary power aboard ship and with a nice Referee (and a few lucky engineering rolls/checks), you might just make it. I'm sure something like this would only happen in an emergency.

This is where system that breakdown energy use like MT (as I recall) can be useful. No manuever drive, no comm, keep gravity, basic life support, don't fire weapons... should be fine

 

[far-trader]

This is where system that breakdown energy use like MT (as I recall) can be useful. No manuever drive, no comm, keep gravity, basic life support, don't fire weapons... should be fine

Hehe

As long as the designer didn't factor all that in when optimizing the design

"OK, we're only gonna use missiles so we don't need power for weapons, and since we don't use the maneuver drive during jump we can shave a week of fuel off there, and... "

In which case that 2 days of fuel is still just 2 days of fuel because it's been optimized as just enough to get through jump.

 

[savage]

Ship design

Hehe

As long as the designer didn't factor all that in when optimizing the design

"OK, we're only gonna use missiles so we don't need power for weapons, and since we don't use the maneuver drive during jump we can shave a week of fuel off there, and... "

In which case that 2 days of fuel is still just 2 days of fuel because it's been optimized as just enough to get through jump.

It could have high agility too. Don't need that in Jumpspace. So, the gearhead answer to the question is "what specs are we discussing?" Darn don't we all hate the question with a question answer.

 

[flykiller]

imtu all jump fuel is expended creating the jump portal, and energy from the jump capacitors initiates jump. from then on its nothing but coast.

jump transit without power plant fuel is simply a matter of conserving heat and running life support. all my ships have damage control stations with large emergency batteries and would be fully able to handle a normal crew and passenger load under reduced conditions.

on popping out the other side a small amount of power plant fuel can be obtained from the ship's water systems - toilets, cooking, reserves, canned food, water vapor in the air, emergency water tank (located in the damage control station). this would provide enough fuel to light off the power plant and recharge batteries, run comms and emergency beacons, etc. let's see ... an erin-class with power plant 2 uses about sixty-four gallons of hydrogen fuel each day, so each thirty-two gallons of water would provide about twenty-four hours of full power plant operation (M2) in that ship, or forty-eight hours of M1, which (if precipitation was at a 100d) should be more than enough to land safely anywhere except at the largest gas giants.

 

[RKFM]

EDIT: Right, the emergency batteries. Almost forgot. CT does include a note (Starship Malfunctions - LBB2 pg6) that "Batteries will provide life support and basic lighting for 1D days." So your 2 days of fuel plus a roll of 5 on that D6 will safely see you through jump.

Ah, I had forgotten that point. Good catch. I tend to think that Life Support is a minor drain on the PP. This would suggest that unless you are not tooling around the system on M-Drive that you would have Life Support for many days (if not weeks?).

 

[far-trader]

Ah, I had forgotten that point. Good catch. I tend to think that Life Support is a minor drain on the PP. This would suggest that unless you are not tooling around the system on M-Drive that you would have Life Support for many days (if not weeks?).

Hmm, I seem to recall rules for that in... Belter? Or some CT Adventure?

I'd allow it for a game if the PCs deserved it but normally imtu the powerplant operates at a single setting - full, or off. I think my house rule for emergency batteries was 1 turn of full power (i.e. normal maneuver and weapons and all) or 1 week per powerplant level of emergency life support and lighting. Basic heat/cool, atm recycle, and dim sparse lights - no AG, no IC, no computers, sensors, commo (except emergency beacon). And btw the emergency batteries are intricately tied into the powerplant and distributed, so damage done to the powerplant also reduces the batteries. For example a powerplant 3 that takes a hit would see it's emergency batteries reduced from 3 weeks to 2 weeks. A powerplant reduced to 0 would still have 1D6 days of emergency batteries.

 

[ThunderChilde]

Mrrph, IMTU all ships carry one or 2 RTG's for emergency minimal power supply, and where the hell does the power to restart a long sitting fusion plant come from anyway? RTG's trickle charge the capacitor/powercells needed for fusion ignition.

By emergency power we're talking glowstrips (about 10 watts equivalent illumination) in the corridors, lock systems active (no atuo door opening pally), weak illumination for cabins, low settings for lifesupport, most other systems offline, minimal sensors, emergency beacon, short term comms possible every few hours at full power(3-5 minutes or so). 1/4 g maintained for safety and system functionality. That sort of thing.

Then again, I am not afraid of nuclear power, nor wed to the "why the hell would you use anything other than fusion?" meme of most scifi.

 

[far-trader]

...and where the hell does the power to restart a long sitting fusion plant come from anyway?

That's what I figured the primary purpose of the emergency batteries is, their secondary application for emergency power is just that, secondary. Or you could fire it up from the starport feed since generally the only time you shut down the powerplant is at a starport.

 

[rancke]

Before the idea of a jump grid (and perhaps coincidentally) the need for a power plant for the jump drive (1st ed LBB2 you only needed the jump drive to jump) I'd say you survive. Or rather the ship will. This would be the slow cold death noted above. After 2 days your powerplant runs out of fuel and you lose life support. Now depending on the physics of jump space again you may very quickly reach near absolute zero (barring very good vacc suits). Or perhaps jump space is an excellent insulator and you won't get much colder (but then one wonders how you keep from melting while actually powered up... ) and only have to worry about food and air. You could jump in a lowberth or take some fast drug. The important thing is your ship will be fine and at the appropriate time safely come out of jump space. You just have to live long enough to be there, and then worry about how you get help in real space without fuel and power for stuff like thrusters and radio.

All this ignores two basic facts: 1) The idea of the jump grid has been had. 2) You can do whatever you like in your own TU. So the answer is: 1) In the OTU: Alien physics destroy the ship, no saving throw. 2) In your TU: Whatever you want.

Since the original question was "what do [all of] you think happens..." one may justifiably assume that the poster meant "...in our common frame of reference, i.e. the OTU", but I know not everybody actually think in such terms.

Oh, I'm sorry, there is a third possibility: Since this is the Classic Traveller forum, maybe the basic assumption is that only Classic Traveller canon applies. In which case MY answer is 3) Since no CT source (that I know of) deals with the question, I'm going to drag in MT canon to get the answer; see 1) above". Others will, no doubt, say "see 2) above".


Hans

 

[Gadrin]

the HIWG cd offered a couple of writeups on Fusion Reactors for both starships and what they meant for Striker...

     2. Ignition Capacitors: Supply the initial energy pulse to establish the
     magnetic fields and heat the plasma.

It mentioned "warm start" (and parked) and "cold start" modes.

>

 

[ThunderChilde]

I can count on perhaps all my fingers adventures where the vessel in question had been sitting for years abandoned or damaged, and was the only way out. How long would the emergency power last? Is a trickle of current needed to keep certain components ever so slightly powered?

From a players perspective I always bridled at the insane lengths and loopy plans that we had to cook up to overcome the lack of power trope. One time we had to swipe a mile or more of copper power wire, steal a steam locomotive, rig a generator, hold off the righteously p.o'ed natives and then we had to do it long enough to process fuel before we could even think of seeing if the jury rigged PP would light. In the end, two snake eyes in a row overpressured and blew up the steam engine and killed most of the party. It was pure misery start to finish. That was the worst but not by much version of the trope. We failed more than we succeeded. Hence the birth of the Hall Of Shame Games description.

 

[Icosahedron]

IMTU, precipitation. Not that that is necessarily a good thing.

Just a thought - rough guess, an empty Free Trader might hold a man-week of air even after the plant shuts off, accounting for cabins and cargo space. You'd better draw straws early. :devil:

 

[aramis]

There is no canon answer per se; Hans is wrong about the MT result (which is based upon SSOM, which is decanonized anyway), which would be the grid stays up because it's charged once at start, and the JD is cold thereafter. (Hans: See MT RM p65: no MW requirement for JD)

I've always run the game as tho Jump Drives operate only once, kicking one into a decaying course. Once one hits the decay point one drops out.

The PP is required at start of jump per canon, and for LS. Theoretically, one could run it at reduced power if it isn't a monolithic tokomak. (if it is a monolithic, the amount of reduced power may not be sufficient for fuel savings to be noticeable.) If if is instead a series of smaller units, running on one unit should be sufficient for most ships to maintain power. So you multiply duration by the number of units when running on one.

 

[rancke]

There is no canon answer per se; Hans is wrong about the MT result (which is based upon SSOM, which is decanonized anyway), which would be the grid stays up because it's charged once at start, and the JD is cold thereafter. (Hans: See MT RM p65: no MW requirement for JD)

No, but there is a MW requirement for the power plant. The jump drive uses all the jump drive fuel to put the ship into jump space, but the power plant is still around to maintain a jump bubble to protect the ship while it is in jumpspace. Once the ship is in jumpspace, it comes out again 7 days later, whether or not the power plant is running, but if the power plant isn't running, the jump bubble won't stay up.

I've always run the game as tho Jump Drives operate only once, kicking one into a decaying course. Once one hits the decay point one drops out.

That's how I run it too. Staying in jumpspace has absolutely nothing to do with the jump bubble.


Hans

 

[aramis]

No, but there is a MW requirement for the power plant. The jump drive uses all the jump drive fuel to put the ship into jump space, but the power plant is still around to maintain a jump bubble to protect the ship while it is in jumpspace. Once the ship is in jumpspace, it comes out again 7 days later, whether or not the power plant is running, but if the power plant isn't running, the jump bubble won't stay up.

No where in MT does it require a PP for the Jump Bubble. It requires only fuel at time of jump, which charges the grid, which decays on its own.

A PP is required under MT only for LS while in jump. It's not even a requirement TO jump. (Tho' jumping without a working PP is usually a slow death).

Only in CT 2nd edition is a PP required to jump; in CT 1st edition, whose legacy is the X-Boat, we have no requirement for PP matching JD.

In CT 2nd ed, we have a requirement for match; a ship whose PP is reduced below that of the Jump Drive may only operate the jump drive at the level of the PP or less. (Note, the actual wording is worse than that: if the letter of the PP is reduced below that of a drive, the drive does not function.)

So, In CT, one must decide the role of the PP in jump: is it (as in HG) initiation energy, Life Support only (as in MT, TNE, and T4), Neither of these (as in CT 1st ed), or something else.

 

[sabredog]

Maybe you vanish into jump space forever? I always figure the way it works in my game is that the jump drives have to function the whole time - they run out of gas in jump and you just pop back into real space. Now wherever that is would be anyone's guess...might be a good excuse to misjump the players into an adventure.