2 Days of Fuel Left

[Ran Targas]

I've always played it that jump drives work at forcing normal space matter into jump space where it isn't welcome. Normal space matter doesn't belong in jump space and keeping it there requires a great deal of energy. So if your grid stops functioning while in J-space, your ship gets spit out like a watermelon seed. Of course, even on a 1 parsec jump, this might just leave you hundreds of thousands of AU or more from the nearest civilization without fuel, a predicament almost as hopeless as being trapped in J-space.

With any luck though, there might just be a icy planetoid nearby where the residual heat from the fusion drive might be able to melt enough snow to fill the fuel tanks. Sounds like the makings of an interesting adventure.

 

[far-trader]

I've always played it that jump drives work at forcing normal space matter into jump space where it isn't welcome. Normal space matter doesn't belong in jump space and keeping it there requires a great deal of energy. So if your grid stops functioning while in J-space, your ship gets spit out like a watermelon seed. Of course, even on a 1 parsec jump, this might just leave you hundreds of thousands of AU or more from the nearest civilization without fuel, a predicament almost as hopeless as being trapped in J-space.

The problem there are all the other ramifications of such. Do you include them in your TU? They certainly don't exist in the OTU.

Like...

Deliberately cutting power to the grid after say 1 day into a J6 to come out after 1 parsec. Suddenly the whole universe changes because communication and travel times are now up to 1/6th what they used to be.

Even misjumps loose their threat and allure. "Oh my, we've misjumped, quick cut the power!" And the ship drops out of jump space, probably still within the same solar system and rescue will be along shortly.

Or in a tactical situation you initiate a J1 and then cut the power after a discrete few seconds or whatever and jump past the in-system blockade.

And so on...

With any luck though, there might just be a icy planetoid nearby where the residual heat from the fusion drive might be able to melt enough snow to fill the fuel tanks. Sounds like the makings of an interesting adventure.

Granted, but it also sounds like the makings of several major changes to the way the game works too. Not a problem for YTU as long as you've thought them out a bit and don't think the players are going to come up with something you didn't anticipate :devil:

 

[MR TEK]

T20 at least,

Since I am not up on the fine points in any other system...

When you misjump, there is that variable jump distance and location.

There is also the description that there are multiple routes that all "compute" at the correct arrivle point and tiome, but account for the variables in time and location.

To me, that says that travel through jump space is wholly unrelated to a straight line in normal space.Any decay outside of standard calculations can end up in a wide and random variation in distance and time, (ie a misjump).

Assuming that jump space spits you out, and does not simply absorb you into jump s[pace, the "lucky" crew ends up with a "normal" misjump, and the additional benefit of limited life support, no maneuver and no long range comms. (So, even misjumping into a habital system, you you freeze to death or suffocate LONG before help arrives.)

That would be my read.

Peace

 

[rancke]

I've always played it that jump drives work at forcing normal space matter into jump space where it isn't welcome. Normal space matter doesn't belong in jump space and keeping it there requires a great deal of energy. So if your grid stops functioning while in J-space, your ship gets spit out like a watermelon seed. Of course, even on a 1 parsec jump, this might just leave you hundreds of thousands of AU or more from the nearest civilization without fuel, a predicament almost as hopeless as being trapped in J-space.

Wil is probably right about me being wrong. At the very least I'm mixing things from different rules sets together. Which I consider quite legitimate except when the discussion is specifically about differences between different rules sets. Which this one is, so sorry about that.

So to make a rare IMTU post: I've tried to reconcile different rules by saying that the jump grid has two different functions. One is to open a "window" into jumpspace and push the ship in there, the other is to maintain a field of realspace physics around the ship. For function one, the jump drive uses all the jump fuel at the start of the jump. This puts the ship into jumpspace and fixes the exit time and space inexorably. Nothing anyone can do will change where and when it will emerge. For function two, the power plant feeds a constant trickle of power into the jump grid. As long as the grid remains powered the realspace field remains intact. If it stops being powered, Bad Things happen to the ship and/or the crew.

If SOM really has been decanonized, you may not even need to have the grid pull double duty. Instead, the grid maintains the realspace field and the jump coil(s) in the jump drive puts the ship into jumpspace. I don't think the grid as a critical factor in controlling the jump appears anywhere else, does it?


Hans

 

[far-trader]

...To me, that says that travel through jump space is wholly unrelated to a straight line in normal space.

Misjumps are unpredictable, however Marc Miller has stated (iirc and understood it) that jump space does indeed map directly to real space. A line connecting two ends of a jump is the same line in normal space differing only in time/scale. So it's not that a misjump doesnt' map directly to normal space, it's just that nobody did the plot, and in fact couldn't with the current understanding of jump space.

Now, imposing an automatic misjump event on anything that messes up the full proper completion of a jump may be a reasonable OTU solution to what happens in cases such as this where the power runs out partway into jump. I'd probably make it a serious misjump with a (CT roll) DM +10. Chances are high the ship will be destroyed (roll of 6+ on 2D6). It is very unlikely the ship won't misjump (roll of 2 on 2D6).

 

[aramis]

I don't think the grid as a critical factor in controlling the jump appears anywhere else, does it?

TNE, Regency Sourcebook

Watching the pattern of the grid allows one to determine the target's course.

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

Awesome!

TNE, Regency Sourcebook

Watching the pattern of the grid allows one to determine the target's course.

Thanks aramis. I had thought it was possible.

 

[rancke]

TNE, Regency Sourcebook

Watching the pattern of the grid allows one to determine the target's course.

Oh yes. Based on SOM, no doubt. :devil:

Edit: Do you have a page reference? I've been browsing RgS without finding it.


Hans

 

[aramis]

Hans: it's in the Referee's library data, but I don't have a specific page reference.

 

[mouser98]

Okay I am a noob poster here, so maybe i am completely missing the point of th OP and stating the obvious, but my understanding of "good GM practices" says that you never kill the players needlessly... which would seem to indicate, especially in the light of no specific canon that says differently, that one should at most give the players a bunch of tasks to overcome to keep life support up, in the spirit of Apollo 13 or Das Boot. The rewards to the group (palyers and GM) for "getting through" a situation like this way outweight whatever might be gained by killing everyone and starting over (hopefully) I would think. But then again I have been exposed to the Narrativist school of thought so maybe I should be quaranteened!! lol

anyway, just my $0.02

 

[Mike@GlisTen]

From a Ref's standpoint, I tend to agree with mouser98. Unless the players were galactically stupid (and deserve to be punished) I'd let them get creative with ways to get around the problem.

First off, I'd determine EXACTLY what the jump duration is in hours. Per LBB 5 (High Guard), a jump "takes approximately one week (150 to 175 hours)." This translates to 145+(5d6), i.e 5 six-sided die rolled and summed. The statistical average is 166 hours. Whatever your results, subtract the 48 of fuel they have remaining to find the deficit, thus the duration they have to overcome.

Second, I'd apply the ""(Starship Malfunctions - LBB2 pg6) that "Batteries will provide life support and basic lighting for 1D days" rule pointed out by Far-Trader. That was my first thought, as well. To make it more interesting, you might change the 1d6 days to 24d6 hours. Yes, it's the same thing, but is more definitive. The statistical average (SA) is 84 hours.

Given 48 of remaining fuel, and an SA of 166 hours of jump, with an SA of 84 of battery power, they would have only a 34 hour deficit.

I like the idea mentioned previously about using onboard water for fuel. According to some NASA literature online, each astronaut in space uses ‘about 30kg (of water per day.’ This is only 7.9 gallons/day. On earth we use about 80-100 gallons/day. If we go with 90 gal., that converts to 340 liters. So let’s assume that for every stateroom aboard the ship (occupied or not) at least 340 liters of water is available from the ships environmental system.

If you have a Type-S Scout ship built using High Guard rules, at Tach-15, the Power Plant-2 fuel is only two tons (2 kiloliters). Four staterooms being standard, that’s 1360 liters of water available. That equates to 19.04 days worth of fuel. For less than 8% of the ship’s water supply, they can get those 34 hours (in my example) of power.

Without any detailed rules (that I could find), you might also adopt a simple rule that using batteries for a day requires a day of recharge (power plant online). The characters could try alternating days on battery, then power plant usage. I would assume the batteries are charged, and cut power on Day 1, then run the PP on Day 2, recharging the batteries. Then repeat the process: Day 3 on batteries and Day 4 on power. This gets them through 96 hours of the jump trip. On Day five they go back to (freshly charged) batteries, that having an average run time of 84 hours, would probably get them thru even a jump of maximum duration (96+84=180 hours).

Hope these ideas help...

 

[robject]

So to make a rare IMTU post: I've tried to reconcile different rules by saying that the jump grid has two different functions. One is to open a "window" into jumpspace and push the ship in there, the other is to maintain a field of realspace physics around the ship. For function one, the jump drive uses all the jump fuel at the start of the jump. This puts the ship into jumpspace and fixes the exit time and space inexorably. Nothing anyone can do will change where and when it will emerge. For function two, the power plant feeds a constant trickle of power into the jump grid. As long as the grid remains powered the realspace field remains intact. If it stops being powered, Bad Things happen to the ship and/or the crew.

I believe this is the same as Marc's reconciliation of the various rules, as well.

In CT, though, as in one's own games, one may speculate freely, and as Mouser says, don't let the rules kill your players.

 

[rancke]

I believe this is the same as Marc's reconciliation of the various rules, as well.

That's good to know .

In CT, though, as in one's own games, one may speculate freely, and as Mouser says, don't let the rules kill your players.

Even if I were using the CT rules for power plant fuel consumption (perhaps to preserve harmonious relations with a player who was a die-hard CT purist :devil, I'd still rule that power plants didn't consume full fuel allocation when not operating the maneuver drive and the energy weapons, so it would be very difficult for PCs to get down to two days worth of fuel, and two days worth of fuel with the maneuver drive going full speed would translate into a lot more days with the maneuver drive not going at all (as would be the case in jumpspace).

In fact... I might turn power plant fuel tankage into capacitors for storing reserve energy...


Hans

 

[boomslang]

Without any detailed rules (that I could find), you might also adopt a simple rule that using batteries for a day requires a day of recharge (power plant online). The characters could try alternating days on battery, then power plant usage. I would assume the batteries are charged, and cut power on Day 1, then run the PP on Day 2, recharging the batteries. Then repeat the process: Day 3 on batteries and Day 4 on power. This gets them through 96 hours of the jump trip. On Day five they go back to (freshly charged) batteries, that having an average run time of 84 hours, would probably get them thru even a jump of maximum duration (96+84=180 hours).

Good post. I like the reference to HG's numbers on Jump duration, especially.

For staying alive, the other alternative I would suggest is that instead of using the batteries to run life support for the entire starship, the crew and passengers could don vacc suits and plug them into the vessel's power and life support infrastructure while letting the rest of the vessel go cold and stale. Although it would mean spending the whole jump (or at least large stretches of it) tethered to an umbilical, surely this would be more efficient than reprocessing all of the shipboard atmo continuously, and would extend battery duration proportionately.

Likewise, I keep a generous stock of Fast Drug in the ship's locker for just such a contingency; putting on a vacc suit and popping a dose of Fast should extend the suit's life supp capacity to at least a week (although it will still draw some electricity to keep its systems operating). Basically, one repurposes a vacc suit into a temporary Fast Berth that draws only a trickle of electricity... perhaps only the Chief Engineer needs to be fully conscious and functioning; everybody else can take a nap.

 

[rancke]

Likewise, I keep a generous stock of Fast Drug in the ship's locker for just such a contingency;

I did the same thing in my adventure Lost in the Abyss Rift, but since then someone pointed out to me that the cost of Cr200 per dose is a misprint; it should be Cr2000 per dose. At those costs I suspect some captains will begin wondering if it's worth while keeping a stock. I suppose it will partly depend on the shelf life. If you can have them lying around for decades, Cr2000 isn't bad at all for such an emergency remedy.

Maybe that's part of the inexplicably high life support costs: replacing the emergency fast drugs every two or three months .


Hans

 

[boomslang]

Maybe that's part of the inexplicably high life support costs: replacing the emergency fast drugs every two or three months

Surely Fast Drug has 30 times the shelf life of ordinary pharmaceuticals, yes?



In another safety-related vein, it should be pointed out that the Jump program ought to perform a safety check before initiating the jump -- something along the lines of: "The plotted jump-3 is calculated to take an estimated 172 hours; Remaining powerplant fuel is sufficient for only 52 hours of operation at level-3 in support of the j-drive; Jump anyway? Y/N" so the crew never inadvertently makes this mistake. Overriding the safety protocol then triggers an automatic log entry of who authorized the suicidal move, for forensics and insurance purposes when the derelict is later salvaged.

 

[robject]

Surely Fast Drug has 30 times the shelf life of ordinary pharmaceuticals, yes?

Or goes stale 30 times as fast I.E. 14 days instead of 1 year...

In another safety-related vein, it should be pointed out that the Jump program ought to perform a safety check before initiating the jump -- something along the lines of: "The plotted jump-3 is calculated to take an estimated 172 hours; Remaining powerplant fuel is sufficient for only 52 hours of operation at level-3 in support of the j-drive; Jump anyway? Y/N" so the crew never inadvertently makes this mistake. Overriding the safety protocol then triggers an automatic log entry of who authorized the suicidal move, for forensics and insurance purposes when the derelict is later salvaged.

Lesson 1: don't write your own jump program.

Lesson 2: make sure your astrogator's workstation is free from clutter ("oops, that Tree Kraken bobble-head accidentally pressed the 'Y' key.").

 

[Brian Smaller]

I usually design my Traveller ships with more than 30 days of PP fuel. If a nuclear sub can keep underwater as long as they have consumables, a Navy patrol cruiser should be able to as well. Most of my navy ships have six months pp fuel. Slow merchants have the same.

 

[atpollard]

From the Apollo data, life-suport should have trivial power requirements (like Kilowatt-Hours of power required per week) compared to a Fusion Plant that generates Hundreds of Megawatts of power continuously for weeks.

From the CT rules as written, powering down the multi-EP computer should provide enough power to maintain life-support until you die of starvation.

[IMHO and YMMV]

 

[aramis]

The Apollo LS kit used bottled O2, LiOH CO2 Scrubbers, and circulated air for a few dozen cubic meters. In short, it's a system that literally is "one use". That said, it's pretty damned power-efficient. Admittedly, that's pretty damned close to "suspenders and a belt"...

But it's readily possible that Traveller LS, given the much higher pwer rates, might be a catalyzed electrolytic CO2 cracking system.

Plus the rooms are much larger; 2 SR can hold an Apollo capsule!