2d6 roll high vs. Xd6 roll low vs. other

[KDLadage]

Which do you prefer?

 

[whulorigan]

Which do you prefer?

I am comfortable with either, as long as the probabilities work out right.

 

[WistfulD]

I prefer 3D6 to 2D6, but nothing is worse than Xd6. The granularity of changing target numbers by 3.5 (with increased variability) per difficulty shift is too ingranular.

 

[KDLadage]

Chessex makes some cool six-sided dice that are pipped 0 to 5.

Essentially, you can do this with normal six-sided dice if you just ignore rolls of 6 on each die (i.e., treat any roll of "6" as "0"). The interesting thing about these dice is that rolling 3 of them is essentially rolling a bell-curved d16 (e.g., results range from 0-15; or in proper Traveller-speak: 0-F).

The center-point is 7-and-8 which, in a lot of ways, makes such a roll nearly perfect for Traveller.

 

[Shonner]

2D6 rolls, with a target of 8+, is so simple. And it's put to best use by Mongoose Traveller. And skill checks are understood by all players, which makes it easier for players to become referees.

 

[KDLadage]

Agreed... I think 2d6 (8+) is far superior to Xd6 (Y-).

But I think that a roll that actually produces 0-F is a facinating possibility. One of those things that I think would be fun to explore.

If you called this 0-5 six-sided die a dT (for Traveller Die)... the idea of a task resolution system which used 3dT (9+) would be equally simple and would have some fun implications for the various charts and tables used in system and character generation...

It is just a thought, ya know...

 

[McPerth]

I may be comfortable with both, as with other systes (Xd6 rolling high for a target, as d6SW or Space 1889, XdY rolling for a target each die as Vampire or Shadowrun, etc...). As the option both of them does not exist, I decline to vote.

What I personaly disliked from T4 (and for what I've Heard from T5 too) is that, unlike CT or MT, stat takes precedence over skill level. But that already happened in TNE, and, off course, it's personal taste and YMMV.

 

[KDLadage]

Understood... when I set up this poll, it was a whim-kinda-thing... so more inclusive options might have been better. As it stands, I think the poll is still useful (especially as discussions go).

 

[Shonner]

I think that a roll that actually produces 0-F is a facinating possibility. One of those things that I think would be fun to explore.

If you called this 0-5 six-sided die a dT (for Traveller Die)... the idea of a task resolution system which used 3dT (9+) would be equally simple and would have some fun implications for the various charts and tables used in system and character generation...

It is just a thought, ya know...

Very cool idea. The chances of rolling a 0 or a 15 is less than .5% for each, so some players might not like the slim chances for those numbers.

 

[KDLadage]

Very cool idea. The chances of rolling a 0 or a 15 is less than .5% for each, so some players might not like the slim chances for those numbers.

You are not going to get a flat set of values unless you want to introduce a d16 (which I own) marked 0-F on it. And I think that is a bad idea.

 

[Shonner]

You are not going to get a flat set of values unless you want to introduce a d16 (which I own) marked 0-F on it. And I think that is a bad idea.

Linear is not my cup of tea.

 

[mike wightman]

I think I have tried out more task systems than there are stars in the Imperium.

I keep going back to roll 8+ on 2d or roll 12+ on 2d for most actions - quick and easy.

 

[creativehum]

I keep going back to roll 8+ on 2d or roll 12+ on 2d for most actions - quick and easy.

Mike,

Could you explain how you use these two separate rolls? Are both made on 2d? And if so, what are the circumstances where you use one or the other?

And, just curious, you use no variables on Throw number based on difficulty? I'd love to hear more about how you handle skills, attribute, difficulty.

 

[KDLadage]

Good catch! I first read that as a difficulty slider (2d6; 8+ to 12+) -- I, also, would like more details.

 

[mike wightman]

Sure, and yes both are just 2d6 rolls.

Typical task is 8+

Player positive DMs for skill, high attribute (ref decides how high the characteristic has to be to get the bonus), specialist tool for the job available +1, good role play of the situation usually warrants a +1 as well.

Adverse DMs could be lack of even a basic tool to do the job, environmental conditions, movement that sort of thing (I tend to just go with experience on how negative to make things)

Player rolls the dice and succeeds on an 8+ after DMs

If I think the task is really hard then the target number goes to 12, most typically used during combat when a player is moving and trying to snapshot an adversary.

Nice and quick and simple.

 

[creativehum]

Huh.

That's pretty much what I've been heading for as I've been mulling the CT system. You've simplified it even further with the 8+/12+ choice... which is slick.

The only twist I'll be adding (or keeping, I guess, from CT) is that the more specialized and unique the skill, the larger the DM bump per skill level.

So, Rifle-1 is using a tool specifically designed to make using it easy as possible. So Rifle-1 gives +1 DM. But using Vacc Suit-1 in a tricky situation gets you the +4 DM per the rules, because, by definition, you are substantially better at dealing with this kind of thing than someone with Vacc Suit-0.

Using your binary difficulty scale makes this kind of application of skill levels even smoother and more apropos, in my view.

Thanks!

 

[Timerover51]

I kind of like the system in Space: 1889 for task resolution, although it does need to be adjusted for the lower number of skill levels in Traveller.

Then there is the Rolemaster system, which does require percentile die, but also allows for partial success and above average success, rather than a simple: "Yes, you did it," or "No, you failed and just died."

Then you also have the progressive task system that appears in JTAS No. 3 for asteroid mining that could be adapted to other tasks, requiring a significant time input.

 

[mike wightman]

You can add a degree of success complication to the simple 8+/12+ method.

How much did you beat the target number by.

But I have found in all my years of gaming experience that the more dice you roll and the more you try to interpret from a result and a table or two the slower and slower the game becomes. The rolling of the dice becomes the game - rather than the role playing of the character.

Ok - roll to hit on percentile, I'll roll to see if your opponent parries, lets compare rolls, ok you manage to sneak a blow past his defence, roll for hit location (with optional modification due to degree of success) now lets see how much damage you roll - again with optional degree of success modifier and hit location modifier, then there is type of weapon modifier -- oops nearly forgot armour, it's passive defence reduces your chance to land an effective hit, and its damage resistance absorbs some of the impact (where is that bloody table for armour types) what do you mean you have three layers of armour...

yes - I did once enjoy games like that.

Now I much prefer narrating the action, getting the players to role play what they want to do , roll a couple of dice to find the outcome of an action, move on.

Instead of bogging a game down with combat resolution, roll to hit, roll damage (I have used armour as damage dice reduction for years now) apply damage to characteristics and narrate the results, move on.

Gives the players more time to move through the scenario rather than getting bogged down with task resolution mechanics, combat mechanics etc.

 

[Shonner]

So, Rifle-1 is using a tool specifically designed to make using it easy as possible. So Rifle-1 gives +1 DM. But using Vacc Suit-1 in a tricky situation gets you the +4 DM per the rules, because, by definition, you are substantially better at dealing with this kind of thing than someone with Vacc Suit-0.

Using your binary difficulty scale makes this kind of application of skill levels even smoother and more apropos, in my view.

Thanks!

Mongoose Traveller uses a standard difficulty scale no matter what the skill check. Classic Traveller makes you read nearly each skill description to see how to do a skill check.

Then there is the Rolemaster system, which does require percentile die, but also allows for partial success and above average success, rather than a simple: "Yes, you did it," or "No, you failed and just died."

Mongoose Traveller is only concerned with the effect of a roll. Very cool for role-play.

But I have found in all my years of gaming experience that the more dice you roll and the more you try to interpret from a result and a table or two the slower and slower the game becomes. The rolling of the dice becomes the game - rather than the role playing of the character.

Ok - roll to hit on percentile, I'll roll to see if your opponent parries, lets compare rolls, ok you manage to sneak a blow past his defence, roll for hit location (with optional modification due to degree of success) now lets see how much damage you roll - again with optional degree of success modifier and hit location modifier, then there is type of weapon modifier -- oops nearly forgot armour, it's passive defence reduces your chance to land an effective hit, and its damage resistance absorbs some of the impact (where is that bloody table for armour types) what do you mean you have three layers of armour...

yes - I did once enjoy games like that.

GURPS does the dice dance between players standing alone in different rooms, seeing if they kill/defend anything. In Traveller, players are more connected to each other.

Now I much prefer narrating the action, getting the players to role play what they want to do , roll a couple of dice to find the outcome of an action, move on.

Instead of bogging a game down with combat resolution, roll to hit, roll damage (I have used armour as damage dice reduction for years now) apply damage to characteristics and narrate the results, move on.

Gives the players more time to move through the scenario rather than getting bogged down with task resolution mechanics, combat mechanics etc.

Real-time is so cool.

 

[infojunky]

Chessex makes some cool six-sided dice that are pipped 0 to 5.

Essentially, you can do this with normal six-sided dice if you just ignore rolls of 6 on each die (i.e., treat any roll of "6" as "0"). The interesting thing about these dice is that rolling 3 of them is essentially rolling a bell-curved d16 (e.g., results range from 0-15; or in proper Traveller-speak: 0-F).

The center-point is 7-and-8 which, in a lot of ways, makes such a roll nearly perfect for Traveller.

Now that is an idea......

In that the normal curve is more bell shaped.... It pleases the statistical math geek in the back of my head.

Another change I have thought of is replacing six side dice with 12 sided ones.....