2d6 roll high vs. Xd6 roll low vs. other

[creativehum]

Mike, I have tried -- and failed -- to find any posts where you lay out your combat system on the Coti boards.

Any chance you could start up a new thread and break it out? Or point me to where they are?

 

[Shonner]

Mike, I have tried -- and failed -- to find any posts where you lay out your combat system on the Coti boards.

Any chance you could start up a new thread and break it out? Or point me to where they are?

He already did mention it in this thread. That is how simple/elegant it is.

 

[KDLadage]

Another change I have thought of is replacing six side dice with 12 sided ones.....

I love d12s. They are the unloved bastard children of the standard dice set. If you can find a way to use them, I say use them!

If anyone is interested, I did an analysis of everywhere the d12 is used in AD&D 1e. Believe it or not, there are two more uses of the d16 (a die which did not exist at the time, but was simulated with a d8 and a hi/lo roll) than there were uses of the d12.

Hell, one of the most infamous charts in the original DMG used percentile dice for a chart where a d12 would have been easier to use. I think Gygax had an irrational fear of the number 12 or something.

 

[Timerover51]

I love d12s. They are the unloved bastard children of the standard dice set. If you can find a way to use them, I say use them!

If anyone is interested, I did an analysis of everywhere the d12 is used in AD&D 1e. Believe it or not, there are two more uses of the d16 (a die which did not exist at the time, but was simulated with a d8 and a hi/lo roll) than there were uses of the d12.

Hell, one of the most infamous charts in the original DMG used percentile dice for a chart where a d12 would have been easier to use. I think Gygax had an irrational fear of the number 12 or something.

I have replaced the D6 die in my Axis and Allies variant with the D12 in order to get more separation between various unit strengths, and it works quite nicely. I also have tried using the D12 with a plus 6 for rolling up D&D characters, which does lead to stronger player characters. I have not tried using it with Traveller, but a D12 with a plus 3 to the roll might be interesting.

 

[creativehum]

He already did mention it in this thread. That is how simple/elegant it is.

Shawn,

Questions about his combat system -- such as how much damage the armor reduces, what damage he uses for various weapons, whether all weapons roll at 8+ regardless of range, and so on -- are things I'd like to hear about.

I'll let Mike respond.

Thanks!

 

[aramis]

I kind of like the system in Space: 1889 for task resolution, although it does need to be adjusted for the lower number of skill levels in Traveller.

Then there is the Rolemaster system, which does require percentile die, but also allows for partial success and above average success, rather than a simple: "Yes, you did it," or "No, you failed and just died."

Then you also have the progressive task system that appears in JTAS No. 3 for asteroid mining that could be adapted to other tasks, requiring a significant time input.

Which one? There are three...

 

[infojunky]

I have replaced the D6 die in my Axis and Allies variant with the D12 in order to get more separation between various unit strengths, and it works quite nicely.

The funny thing is wargaming is where the idea comes from, there are lots of games that use a straight d6 roll against a units rating, the change out of the d6 to a d12 allows for more levels of gradation. So the gag around here is to replace every instance of the d6 with d12.

 

[Timerover51]

Which one? There are three...

Are you asking which one that I prefer? If so, then the Space: 1889 system, also by GDW. It does take some modification however, as you have more chances for higher skill levels in Space: 1889. Generally, I double the Traveller Skill Level and go from there.

The advantage to the Rolemaster system is that is does provide for partial success, which is something that I have to give some though to in order to adapt it to other games.

 

[aramis]

Are you asking which one that I prefer? If so, then the Space: 1889 system, also by GDW. It does take some modification however, as you have more chances for higher skill levels in Space: 1889. Generally, I double the Traveller Skill Level and go from there.

The advantage to the Rolemaster system is that is does provide for partial success, which is something that I have to give some though to in order to adapt it to other games.

Which of the 3 mechanics within that game. It lacks a consolidated task system.

 

[robject]

(I have used armour as damage dice reduction for years now)

Mike, tell us how armor is rated in your rules. How much damage does each type of armor soak up? Details please!

 

[mike wightman]

Ok the short version coming up.

The longer version I should take to a new thread.

8+ to hit at effective range (use CT tables to decide what effective range is)
12+ to hit at long range or if you fire a snapshot while moving.

usual - DMs for target movement, environmental conditions etc.
+ DM from skill, advantageous Dex etc.

Weapon damage dice - just use CT damage

Roll damage dice.

Remove one die for each point of armour (remove lowest to highest) until there is only one damage die remaining. Any left over armour points are then subtracted from this die.

Armour values for armour can be taken from AHL, Striker, MT, T4, MgT - they are all pretty similar.

Complications.

HEAP rounds, gauss weapons and lasers halve the AV

 

[Echo]

2D6 Roll high.

For me, they got the right core mechanic finalised with MegaTraveller - and then proceeded to take backwards steps with each resultant new edition. Mongoose Traveller got it more or less right too - although I’d have handled Characteristic bonuses differently.

 

[KDLadage]

2D6 Roll high.

For me, they got the right core mechanic finalised with MegaTraveller - and then proceeded to take backwards steps with each resultant new edition. Mongoose Traveller got it more or less right too - although I’d have handled Characteristic bonuses differently.

Do tell. There is something about the characteristic bonuses in MgT which seem simultaneously right and wrong and I cannot put my finger on it. What would you have done differently?

 

[Supplement Four]

For me, they got it right with Classic Traveller. Skill points have different weights (as in +1 per skill level or +4 per skill level), and stats are not always referenced. It depends on the circumstance and the Ref's estimation of the situation. In this way, a person can be a top professional in a skill without having to spend precious skill points on a skill that is of secondary use in the game. For example, Vacc Suit-2 is all you need to automatically make the space hazard roll. Vacc Suit-1 will give you a decent chance (6+). And, Vacc Suit-0, or no skill at all, is tough (10+).

Most of the time, CT favors roll high, but sometimes, roll low is appropriate. Depends.

What's missing, imo, is a good section of advice for Ref's on creating throws for their games. I'm not talking about hard and fast rules here. I'm talking about a discussion saying, "This type of throw is good for this, and that type of throw shines when used for that."

 

[KDLadage]

S4 -- I love classic Traveller. However, if anything bugged me about it, it was the seeming randomness of the "If Stat X is Y or higher, add Z". So, in that sense, the idea of MgT's standard stat mods make sense to me. But when I look at them, they still seem like something is missing.

 

[Supplement Four]

S4 -- I love classic Traveller. However, if anything bugged me about it, it was the seeming randomness of the "If Stat X is Y or higher, add Z". So, in that sense, the idea of MgT's standard stat mods make sense to me. But when I look at them, they still seem like something is missing.

Standardization makes sense to most people. I like task systems, too. But, what you cite makes a lot of sense to me.

For example, making a patient diagnosis should be heavily weighted towards the Medic skill, thus a +2 or more per level would be appropriate. Then, add in a +1 if EDU is pretty high in the 10+ range.



If performing surgery to attach a bio-mechanical hand to the character Luke, then Medical skill is important, but DEX is also pretty important, tying up all those ligaments and things. Medic skill is +1 per level, and get a +2 bonus for DEX at 13+. Get a -2 penalty at DEX 4-.



The low berths are fairly automated, so stats aren't referenced at all. And advanced Medical skill will allow a slight bonus if the automated levels are fine-tuned. Thus, +1 if Medic is 2+. No bonus for Medic stats. But, if the patient cannot take the shock of being put under, then a -1 penalty if END 6-.

 

[Echo]

Do tell. There is something about the characteristic bonuses in MgT which seem simultaneously right and wrong and I cannot put my finger on it. What would you have done differently?

Well in MegaTraveller, they just had a flat Characteristic/5 for the bonus. This is simple and unobtrusive - but its also more universal. If it keeps going up this way, you can imagine creatures beyond human capacity and still have the statistics in measure.

In Mongoose Traveller, the maths are a bit inconsistent. It’s basically (Characteristic/3)-2, but with Characteristic 0 as -3. In some ways, I feel like flicking the -2 aspect anyway and making the Target number 10+ rather than 8+, although this probably has some sort of complication with resultant probabilities. Secondly, though, it’s pretty much stuck on a human scale - you can’t go beyond 15 in the scores. Thirdly….well, it’s a bit D&Dish.

 

[Hemdian]

For many years I was an MT rules fan. Basically from the moment it came out until the arrival of T5. But one thing that irked me that stats only had an effect on task rolls every 5 points. That seemed too coarse. In T5 every point counts ... but to address the switch in importance from skills to stats you have two skills per task (skill + knowledge) and the TIH rule. This shakes things up a bit and makes it much more interesting. Stats are more contributory but skills are more enabling.

What I dislike about the Xd6 approach is that it distorts the shape of the probability curve the more dice you have. So I could see a house rule of replacing all but 2d6 of a roll with a fixed 3.5 per die. But that seems a little clumsy.

 

[aramis]

Well in MegaTraveller, they just had a flat Characteristic/5 for the bonus. This is simple and unobtrusive - but its also more universal. If it keeps going up this way, you can imagine creatures beyond human capacity and still have the statistics in measure.

In Mongoose Traveller, the maths are a bit inconsistent. It’s basically (Characteristic/3)-2, but with Characteristic 0 as -3. In some ways, I feel like flicking the -2 aspect anyway and making the Target number 10+ rather than 8+, although this probably has some sort of complication with resultant probabilities. Secondly, though, it’s pretty much stuck on a human scale - you can’t go beyond 15 in the scores. Thirdly….well, it’s a bit D&Dish.

Changing it to 10+ and using attribute/3 doesn't change the math except for when you decide to use two skills instead of Stat & skill. Essentially, you're approaching the DGP task system...

 

[WistfulD]

Chessex makes some cool six-sided dice that are pipped 0 to 5.

Essentially, you can do this with normal six-sided dice if you just ignore rolls of 6 on each die (i.e., treat any roll of "6" as "0"). The interesting thing about these dice is that rolling 3 of them is essentially rolling a bell-curved d16 (e.g., results range from 0-15; or in proper Traveller-speak: 0-F).

The center-point is 7-and-8 which, in a lot of ways, makes such a roll nearly perfect for Traveller.

We've taken to adding 3 to the target number to simulate the same effect. Of course gamer ingenuity would have made that obsolete!