2nd Edition, Thoughts?

[Cdr Vimes]

I've just bought/downloaded the 2nd edition PDF from Drivethru. I like it, many improvements, skill advancement and some clearer explanations for combat.

But, not overly sold on the boon/bane system and the ranged weapon mechanic and damages are all different from the 1st edition. Therefore all my edition 1 supplements are out of date.

So for me, thats it. I'll use some of the improvements from core for my edition 1 games but I'm not buying a new version of HG, CSC, and all the character books when they come out.

I have CT, MT, TNE, T4 and MgT1, I don't need another full edition.

 

[robject]

I like the boon/bane system. It's a useful way to get more mileage out of a 2D task mechanic.

 

[aramis]

I like the boon/bane system. It's a useful way to get more mileage out of a 2D task mechanic.

I dislike it as a needless complexity add, since Matthew didn't eliminate all the numerical difficulty modifiers.

 

[mike wightman]

I like the boon/bane system. It's a useful way to get more mileage out of a 2D task mechanic.

I don't mind it but my players like it a lot. It is a useful tool to encourage role playing.

 

[mike wightman]

So for me, thats it. I'll use some of the improvements from core for my edition 1 games but I'm not buying a new version of HG, CSC, and all the character books when they come out.

The new edition of HG is quite a bit different, you may want to get it because it will be how ships are designed for MgT going forward.

 

[DickNervous]

I haven't actually played the 2nd edition yet, though my group and I have generated several characters. But I am part of the beta and have been pouring over things. Here is my initial opinion:

I really like what they have done with Character Generation. They didn't change it much, but the tweaks and changes (I think) are all good. Same goes for the skill list which they have pared down a bit.

I like the concept of the boon/bane and can see it adding a lot of flavor to things.

I haven't tried the new combat system yet, so I don't really have an opinion, but it looks like it should be okay.

The new ship design system looks fine, if different. My only concern is the change to ship combat where ships now have a large pool of hull points and only critical hits will hit an actual specific system instead of the old way. Again, haven't actually played it so I don't know how it will actually feel yet.

I do like that they have modified the combat system so that it is easier to figure out what would happen if you have characters, vehicles, and ships involved in combat and just how much (or how little) damage they would do to each other.

 

[robject]

I have mixed feelings about the ship design system. Nothing in particular seems wrong, but it seems a poor match for certain ships. Or, perhaps, not enough was done to ensure that the canonical ships represent what they were intended to represent. I dunno.

In particular, the Scout/Courier feels too roomy. "It's not Traveller enough" is the feel I get. Maybe I'm wrong there.

 

[ovka]

I haven't tried the new combat system yet, so I don't really have an opinion, but it looks like it should be okay.

From what I saw, it was similar to d20 (D&D 3/3.5/3.75). I had a long-running 3.5e campaign, and combat went very well.

My only concern is the change to ship combat where ships now have a large pool of hull points and only critical hits will hit an actual specific system instead of the old way. Again, haven't actually played it so I don't know how it will actually feel yet.

I haven't seen the final version of MgT2, but my brother and I ran some ship-to-ship combat using the beta version. You are correct about needing critical hits. That's exactly what it felt like. The other thing we found was that you had to keep track of (write down) what happened each combat round because you needed some of that information going forward.

Cheers,

Baron Ovka

 

[savage]

So, is it (v2) backward compatible to v1? Will characters and ships be useable.
I have some MgT books but mostly as reference.

 

[DickNervous]

So, is it (v2) backward compatible to v1? Will characters and ships be useable.
I have some MgT books but mostly as reference.

No, it is NOT backward compatible.

However, it is very straightforward to move characters between the two systems as the only real changes are some skill consolidations. For example 2nd edition only has Slug, Energy, and Archaic under Gun Combat. And there is no Battle Dress skill as it falls under Vacc Suit. Things like that.

Currently the extended character generation books (Mercenary, High Guard, etc) do not exist in 2nd edition. So anything that was introduced in those books, be it equipment, skills, or things like "influence" will need to be converted and might pose a bit more of a challenge.

Most standard equipment will also be pretty easy to adjust, especially since they will probably have an equivalent in the new edition between the core book and Central Supply Catalog. Though armor is handled differently and prices are VERY different, I don't see it being an issue to convert things.

Ships are going to be the biggest challenge since they have changed how they are designed pretty dramatically, which also means that ship combat is very different. Though there are all the common ships in the rules so if you are using ships from the 1st edition core rulebook, they all (I think all, might be missing 1 or 2) have the new version in the 2nd edition.

Any background information in current books, such as system info, flavor text, etc. is still 100% valid. So if you have purchased any of the sector or system books/maps they are all good. Any system info that is in any existing adventures, library books, compendium, etc are also still valid as well.

 

[savage]

No, it is NOT backward compatible.

However, it is very straightforward to move characters between the two systems ...
Ships are going to be the biggest challenge since they have changed how they are designed pretty dramatically, which also means that ship combat is very different. Though there are all the common ships in the rules so if you are using ships from the 1st edition core rulebook, they all (I think all, might be missing 1 or 2) have the new version in the 2nd edition.
...

That's a fraction of the MgT ships. I'd hope they'd be innovative and build a transition book or two of some sort. Buying version after version gets old.
What is the design change?

 

[Spartan159]

The first thing that jumps out at me is the change from having hull and structure points to just having hull points. Currently the HG2 beta has 1 hull point for every 2.5 dt of craft, Ships over 25,000 dt have 1 Hull point for every 2 dt of hull. Ships over 100,000 dt have 1 Hull point for every
1.5 dt of hull.

 

[DickNervous]

That's a fraction of the MgT ships. I'd hope they'd be innovative and build a transition book or two of some sort. Buying version after version gets old.
What is the design change?

Well, to be honest this it has been about 8 years since the first version was released, so that's not too bad... but I agree with you. I am confident that once the High Guard rules are finalized that some enterprising folks will analyze the changes and come up with a way to convert ships. I am not an expert on ship design by any stretch (having just recently designed my 2nd ship) so I am probably not the best person to analyze the differences, but I will be looking into it in deeper in the near future.

 

[Kilgs]

Eight years? Okay, that's not too bad. It's likely time for new capital and they've had eight years to think about the direction to take it. Maybe into a more generic sci-fi game...

For me, it's about product quality. I think 1st edition works. I love Mercenary 1st (I know you all hate it), Merchant Prince, Belters, the CSC and Scoundrel. I hate a bunch of the other ones.

The books have been way too hit/miss for me to spend more money without significant review. Some of them have been downright criminal to publish and I'm still waiting on my apology for issuing identical vehicle books as "wholly different."

In other words, I just don't trust Mongoose products until I've smelled the paper.

And lastly, I have no impetus to update a system that I'm not really interested in. Traveller itself is awesome but I have finally accepted that I do not like the system. I can convert the stuff from the books I like to something else so no need to replace stock.

As an exception, the 2300 products continue to be top-notch. Weird. Maybe its because the main line attracts all sorts of authors but 2300 attracts those specifically interested in that type of sci-fi. Not sure.

 

[savage]

The books have been way too hit/miss for me to spend more money without significant review. Some of them have been downright criminal to publish and I'm still waiting on my apology for issuing identical vehicle books as "wholly different."

In other words, I just don't trust Mongoose products until I've smelled the paper.

Can you give more details. I'm not a MgT expert. I've bought a few supporting products but not the entire line.

After I see the version it makes some sense. Supporting products are best if they target all version of Traveller, Core rule sets perhaps need a revision but should never need a completely new path. IMO.

 

[Kilgs]

To clarify, my issues are not with 2nd edition. I have a copy of it and it doesn't add anything that solved my issues with the system since... it's the system. Not their fault.

I have posted at length on the Vehicle books, Agent, and Vargr. They're searchable here so no need to rehash in detail old complaints in a new thread. Despite thread-crapping, I'll endeavor not to do so... ;-)

My guess is that Hull Point plan dispenses with tonnage. A straight numerical system allows different variations of ship construction/measurement to be incorporated more smoothly. Maybe someone wants to run something not based on displacement tons and fuel tonnage. Just change base Hull Point calcs and you can rework the entire system to fit your alternate setting/system.

 

[Spartan159]

The hull point value is determined by displacement tons, with larger ships being able to soak up more damage.

Kilgs, if you could provide links, that would help me. I seem to be Search-Fu deficient but I would still like to see what issues you had before I go too far in catching up with the MgT line, I definitely do not want to buy the same thing twice.

 

[DickNervous]

Eight years? Okay, that's not too bad. It's likely time for new capital and they've had eight years to think about the direction to take it. Maybe into a more generic sci-fi game...

For me, it's about product quality. I think 1st edition works. I love Mercenary 1st (I know you all hate it), Merchant Prince, Belters, the CSC and Scoundrel. I hate a bunch of the other ones.

The books have been way too hit/miss for me to spend more money without significant review. Some of them have been downright criminal to publish and I'm still waiting on my apology for issuing identical vehicle books as "wholly different."

In other words, I just don't trust Mongoose products until I've smelled the paper.

And lastly, I have no impetus to update a system that I'm not really interested in. Traveller itself is awesome but I have finally accepted that I do not like the system. I can convert the stuff from the books I like to something else so no need to replace stock.

As an exception, the 2300 products continue to be top-notch. Weird. Maybe its because the main line attracts all sorts of authors but 2300 attracts those specifically interested in that type of sci-fi. Not sure.

I agree that the Mongoose books can be hit or miss. I find that there are some I use all the time and others that just collect dust (or the electronic equivalent since they are PDFs....). And while the I love the few books I have hard copies of, and think they are worth every cent, I feel that their PDF prices are, well, a little on the high side. So I can understand not wanting to invest in them until you know their value.

All that said, I like what I have seen of the 2nd edition so far. I have generated a ton of characters and it really is a blast to do with the group. I've gone through some combat (personal level, not vehicles and ships yet) and it seems to flow nicely and works pretty good. I've just started digging into the ship design stuff, but it will take some time to get through and get a feel for it. At first glance I have some concerns about how ship combat will play out, but since I haven't done it yet I don't know if they are valid.

As for replacing stock, they haven't announced yet any plans to update any of the extended career books or supplements, so there may not be anything to replace. The only things they have officially announced are the Core Rulebook, High Guard (but no Navy careers, just ship stuff), Central Supply Catalog, and an update to The Pirates of Drinax. There is supposed to be a Traveller Companion book as well that has a ton of "optional" stuff in it and resources, but I haven't heard any details about it.

The good thing is that any of the generic system books (such as the Borderlands stuff) will work fine with 2nd edition with minimal (if any) tweaking.

 

[aramis]

As for replacing stock, they haven't announced yet any plans to update any of the extended career books or supplements, so there may not be anything to replace. The only things they have officially announced are the Core Rulebook, High Guard (but no Navy careers, just ship stuff), Central Supply Catalog, and an update to The Pirates of Drinax. There is supposed to be a Traveller Companion book as well that has a ton of "optional" stuff in it and resources, but I haven't heard any details about it.

Actually, Matthew has mentioned plans to revise everything eventually.

 

[MongooseMatt]

Actually, Matthew has mentioned plans to revise everything eventually.

I should point out, that is in the context of a ten year span and I would merely not wish to rule anything out