MGT Only: 3,000-ton light cruiser

[Brandon C]

Unlike the earlier designs, this is still in progress as I am not sure what HG capital ship rules I will change or ignore. This is the TL 15 version.

3,000-ton light cruiser

The light cruiser is capable of 4G acceleration, jump-3 and has a factor 4 power plant. Fuel tankage of 1,105 tons supports one jump-3 and 6 weeks of operation. Twenty-five tons of fuel are reserved for the small craft. The bridge has holographic controls and is hardened, with three Model 6/fib computers. Electronics include military countermeasures, enhanced signal processing and a distributed array. There are 60 staterooms and 15 low berths. Four briefing rooms and 2 armouries are also provided. The ship has 30 hardpoints, with two small meson gun bays, two small particle beam bays, 14 particle beam barbettes and 10 triple beam laser turrets. Two meson screens and two nuclear dampers are installed. The ship has stealth and armor 8. Armoured bulkheads protect the drives and bridge.The ship's small craft include, in full hangars, three 30-ton ship's boats, four 20-ton multi-role fighters, and three 10-ton maintenance pods. Cargo capacity is 140 tons.

Crew is a captain, first officer, 3 pilots, 3 navigators, 5 engineers, 40 gunners/screen operators, 4 medics, 4 fighter crew, 7 boat crew, 10 flight mechanics, and 20 marines. The ship costs MCr 2,455.88.

 

[Xerxeskingofking]

what role does this ship fill that cannot be filled by a 2,000 ton destroyer or a 4,000 ton heavy cruiser?

looking at your collection of ships, I am starting to get the feeling that all your heavy combat ships are basically smaller or bigger versions of the same ship. I'm not really seeing enough differentiation to justify all the different sized ships. At the moment, they are all trying to do the same basic job, which Main Combatant.

If I may be so bold, I think the root of the problem is that you've decided that you were going to make a warship of each size (1k,2k,3k,4k 5k and 6k), and build a capable fighter of each size, but you've not sat down and said, "right, what is it I want my 3k ship to DO? Do I want a heavy scout that can fight for information? Do I want a fleet picket that can keep enemy scouts at range form the main fleet? Do I want a light flagship for small task forces? Do I want an extended duration patrol ship that can operate away form supply lines for months?"

my suggestion would be to diversify the fleet a little. Maybe make the "light" cruisers as big as the "heavy" cruisers, but give them less armour and longer jump range, or bigger M drives, so they can act as more of a scout. load the heavies up for close support of a battleship, or even drop them entirely (or make them a class used as ersatz battleships ,by navies unable to afford real BBs). In short think of what a ships role in a larger fleet would or should be, rather than design each ship in isolation.

 

[Brandon C]

what role does this ship fill that cannot be filled by a 2,000 ton destroyer or a 4,000 ton heavy cruiser?

It's cheaper than the heavy cruiser and more expensive than the destroyer by a fair amount. The heavy cruiser has better armour, more weapons and armoured bulkheads protecting those weapons. The destroyer has slightly better jump range and limited modular capability for customization.

looking at your collection of ships, I am starting to get the feeling that all your heavy combat ships are basically smaller or bigger versions of the same ship. I'm not really seeing enough differentiation to justify all the different sized ships. At the moment, they are all trying to do the same basic job, which Main Combatant.

The easiest change in the type of bay. For example, a heavy cruiser with three heavy bays instead of six light ones is a pocket battleship. A light cruiser with the energy weapon bays replaced with missile, torpedo or railgun bays is a bombardment ship.

Given the percentage of "free" space on the cruisers, I may make some of that modular like some of the smaller warships.

If I may be so bold, I think the root of the problem is that you've decided that you were going to make a warship of each size (1k,2k,3k,4k 5k and 6k), and build a capable fighter of each size, but you've not sat down and said, "right, what is it I want my 3k ship to DO? Do I want a heavy scout that can fight for information?

Destroyer

Do I want a fleet picket that can keep enemy scouts at range form the main fleet?

Destroyer

Do I want a light flagship for small task forces?

Heavy cruiser

Do I want an extended duration patrol ship that can operate away form supply lines for months?"

A destroyer with the right modules might be able to do this, but otherwise it would require a speciality ship.

 

[CliffBates]

what role does this ship fill that cannot be filled by a 2,000 ton destroyer or a 4,000 ton heavy cruiser?

looking at your collection of ships, I am starting to get the feeling that all your heavy combat ships are basically smaller or bigger versions of the same ship. I'm not really seeing enough differentiation to justify all the different sized ships. At the moment, they are all trying to do the same basic job, which Main Combatant.

If I may be so bold, I think the root of the problem is that you've decided that you were going to make a warship of each size (1k,2k,3k,4k 5k and 6k), and build a capable fighter of each size, but you've not sat down and said, "right, what is it I want my 3k ship to DO? Do I want a heavy scout that can fight for information? Do I want a fleet picket that can keep enemy scouts at range form the main fleet? Do I want a light flagship for small task forces? Do I want an extended duration patrol ship that can operate away form supply lines for months?"

my suggestion would be to diversify the fleet a little. Maybe make the "light" cruisers as big as the "heavy" cruisers, but give them less armour and longer jump range, or bigger M drives, so they can act as more of a scout. load the heavies up for close support of a battleship, or even drop them entirely (or make them a class used as ersatz battleships ,by navies unable to afford real BBs). In short think of what a ships role in a larger fleet would or should be, rather than design each ship in isolation.

AMEN!!

Also look at the question of proportion of the ships... In this world, with the Big Boys Carriers and BBs are 5000 and a destroyer is 2000.. this means the destroyer is 40% the size of the larger big boy. A ratio between a contemporary Destroyer (around 2059.28 dtons where 14m3=1dton) or a Frigate (around 9617.15dtons) vs carrier of the Nimitz class (245143.43 dtons but if you add things above the flight deck etc, it would be aprox 300000 dtons), so the Destroyer is 0.68% of the Carrier and the Frigate is 3.21% of the Carrier and I expect to see roughly similar same ratios in space warships.

[My original post I forgot that displacement tons on a ship means something else than on a space ship.. so I then looked at cubic meters of the ships (and converting to 1dton =14 cubic meters)

 

[kilemall]

AMEN!!

Also look at the question of proportion of the ships... In this world, with the Big Boys Carriers and BBs are 5000 and a destroyer is 2000.. this means the destroyer is 40% the size of the larger big boy. A ratio between a contemporary Destroyer (around 2059.28 dtons where 14m3=15) or a Frigate (around 9617.15dtons) vs carrier of the Nimitz class (245143.43 dtons but if you add things above the flight deck etc, it would be aprox 300000 dtons), so the Destroyer is 0.68% of the Carrier and the Frigate is 3.21% of the Carrier and I expect to see roughly similar same ratios in space warships.

[My original post I forgot that displacement tons on a ship means something else than on a space ship.. so I then looked at cubic meters of the ships (and converting to 1dton =14 cubic meters)

That classic Freelance Traveller article does a good job in thinking through wet navy conversions-

http://www.freelancetraveller.com/features/shipyard/tonnage.html

If I were to peg a difference for a small ship universe on 'types', I would look at weapon, armor and size in combination.

100-600 small warships corvettes/frigates/destroyers/escorts, mostly with mixes of the classic turret weapons, most not armored as they are not meant to operate independently against larger threats and wouldn't have the firepower to do so (exceptions perhaps for heavily nuclear missile-armed navies). Most are designed for short range patrol and escort, so usually only one jump.

800-2000 cruisers of various types, most mounting at least one 50-ton bay and from very light armor to heavy armor. These are often the backbone of independent distant/expeditionary operations, and so will often have large multi-jump tanks and support small ships.

3000 ton plus would be the dreadnaught/battlecruiser/battleships, equipped with 100-ton bays, heavy armor, large protective sand/laser/plasma batteries and sometimes multi-jump or speed (but almost never both at the expense of armor).

Carriers would almost never be armored as their impact and protection is their small craft.

CVE=small warship size
CVL=cruiser size
CV=battleship size

 

[CliffBates]

That classic Freelance Traveller article does a good job in thinking through wet navy conversions-

http://www.freelancetraveller.com/features/shipyard/tonnage.html

If I were to peg a difference for a small ship universe on 'types', I would look at weapon, armor and size in combination.

100-600 small warships corvettes/frigates/destroyers/escorts, mostly with mixes of the classic turret weapons, most not armored as they are not meant to operate independently against larger threats and wouldn't have the firepower to do so (exceptions perhaps for heavily nuclear missile-armed navies). Most are designed for short range patrol and escort, so usually only one jump.

800-2000 cruisers of various types, most mounting at least one 50-ton bay and from very light armor to heavy armor. These are often the backbone of independent distant/expeditionary operations, and so will often have large multi-jump tanks and support small ships.

3000 ton plus would be the dreadnaught/battlecruiser/battleships, equipped with 100-ton bays, heavy armor, large protective sand/laser/plasma batteries and sometimes multi-jump or speed (but almost never both at the expense of armor).

Carriers would almost never be armored as their impact and protection is their small craft.

CVE=small warship size
CVL=cruiser size
CV=battleship size

Displacement tonnage of wet water ships is wholly different than the Traveller ton which deals with the actuall mass of the ship.

But that Article looks at the displacement tonnage is the mass that the ship displaces and counts from the waterline and below, not the rest of the ship. A more accurate account of the MASS of the ship, the length in meters x height (top to bottom) x width..... here you have the rough cubic meters then divide by 14 and you get the CT standard 1 dton.

So the Article is slight misleading, something the editor note warns.

 

[Brandon C]

Also look at the question of proportion of the ships... In this world, with the Big Boys Carriers and BBs are 5000 and a destroyer is 2000.. this means the destroyer is 40% the size of the larger big boy. A ratio between a contemporary Destroyer (around 2059.28 dtons where 14m3=1dton) or a Frigate (around 9617.15dtons) vs carrier of the Nimitz class (245143.43 dtons but if you add things above the flight deck etc, it would be aprox 300000 dtons), so the Destroyer is 0.68% of the Carrier and the Frigate is 3.21% of the Carrier and I expect to see roughly similar same ratios in space warships.

1,500 years from now, why should the ratios be the same? Are the ratios the same as they were in 500 A.D.?