A Consolidated Errata list

[kmsoice]

“Consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds” is what a friend of mine used to say. Well, call me a hobgoblin then because I am trying to put together a consolidated list of errata for the 2300AD & Star Cruiser game and have put what I have got so far on my website.
http://www.geocities.com/kelvinsoice/2300AD/Consolidated_Errata.htm
or a pdf version at
http://www.geocities.com/kelvinsoice/2300AD/Consolidated_Errata.pdf
If you are like me then you found the errors, mostly in Star Cruiser, drove you crazy. Some of the problems are simple typos (listing MLv instead of Lv for hull material costs in the table), some are just poorly written and could be exploited by a rules lawyer like me, and others are much more severe. I have tried to reverse engineer many of the designs in ‘Ships of the French Arm’ and mostly failed to exactly match any of the final cost and mass numbers listed for any ship. I have searched the books and the web and found some solutions. Way back in 1989 I even wrote to GDW and got a response from Loren K Wiseman, one of the game’s developers, on his ruling for several things including the stats on Gun Towers. The vast majority of the errata that I have found are for Star Cruiser/Naval Architects Manual; the errata for the rest of the 2300AD material that I have found is pretty trivial and I am really only including it for completeness sake (remember what I said earlier about hobgoblins).

In trawling about the web I have found many websites with player created rule sets and have included these as well. Not more background stuff but actual rules on how to do something. I am trying to keep the cannon (but corrected) elements separate from the technically-non-cannon-but-I-think-are-really-necessary-rules elements with the ‘Alternate Rules’ section at the bottom.

I see this as being very much a ‘work in progress’ so please e-mail me with any changes, additions and corrections (it’s that hobgoblin thing again).

 

[kaladorn]

Not much to say but *thanks*.

 

[shaunhilburn]

If you are like me then you found the errors, mostly in Star Cruiser, drove you crazy. Some of the problems are simple typos (listing MLv instead of Lv for hull material costs in the table), some are just poorly written and could be exploited by a rules lawyer like me, and others are much more severe.

Star Cruiser hull masking radiators are optional, they should be required.

They are so hot they glow orange, based on the power per unit area in NAM, so the passive detection rules should be thrown out. Passive detection should be automatic.

Then the game is no longer like submarine combat, "Hide and seek with bazookas".

[/QUOTE]

I see this as being very much a ‘work in progress’ so please e-mail me with any changes, additions and corrections (it’s that hobgoblin thing again).

I wouldn't know where to start. I've thrown out nearly everything except timeline, chargen, and combat. I have a heresy system based soley on

Traveller:2300 1st edition
Kafer Dawn
Aurore Sourcebook
Star Cruiser

All other canon is discarded.

 

[kmsoice]

Star Cruiser hull masking radiators are optional, they should be required.

I understand your point but I think the intent of the rules on hull masking is to mean radiators above and beyond what is standard and inherent in the construction of a ship hull. Yes I know, mention of such inherent radiators are entirely missing from the rules, something important in a game where we are supposed to be keeping track of surface area, but you may also notice that there is also no mention of the surface area taken up by portholes, hatches and maneuvering thrusters. Like characters going to the bathroom these things are vital and must exist but are never mentioned and it is just lumped in with 'something else'. What could this 'something else' be? Take for example turrets. Do you really think that a turret takes up 30m^2? -> that is a circle 6m in diameter. That is pretty big, is it possible that this area also includes a porthole, a hatch and a radiator panel? Even if a turret truly does take up 30m^2 all by itself is it impossible to mount a porthole, a hatch and a radiator panel ON TOP of a turret i.e. built into the turret’s skin? Similar arguments could be made for any surface fixture.

...and then there is the issue that if you blindly use the table for standard hull sections then the values listed for surface area do not include the surface are of the ends of the ship (but in the formula for custom hull sections they are accounted for!). The design for the Kennedy cheated itself out of 692m^2 that way. What other things could be mounted on the ends that were not mentioned in the rules?

Anyways, others share your concern. See the bottom of the document in Alternative Rules for Bryn Monnrey's "Cooling Starships, 2300AD's most serious starship error"

 

[far-trader]

“Consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds” is what a friend of mine used to say...

I'm with you in requiring some consistency and applaud the efforts

Normally I'd not stick my nose in here except to snoop, but that (mis)quote grabbed my attention and I have to post on it...

The actual quote (bold mine) is "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines." Ralph Waldo Emerson.

With that I can agree. With your friends misquote I cannot. There is a level of (call it wise) consistency required of things, and it is not a hobgoblin nor appreciated by little minds.

Carry on

EDIT: Heh, figured I'd better be sure I was quoting correctly myself so I did a quick google and sure enough there's more to it. Added the second bit after the apostrophe above...

 

[kmsoice]

When making my file I had to guess at many rules that were unclear and I would like to take this oportunity to start a discussion on several questions. What have you used in your ship designs? Please be specific and complete in your answers inlcuding why you choose what you did.

1. Was the itent of the rules to be there should there be one targeting computer per ship or one per weapon mount?

2. Which formula should be used for accommodations mass and why? m=10 +0.1X(total accomidations volume) or m=(10+0.1X(volume of one accomidation)Xnumber of acccomidations

3. Should Submunitions get the benefit from a targeting computer?

4. Should there be a to hit bonus against a ship that is at All-Stop?

5. Should the surface area at the bow and stern of a ship be included?

6. Should Kafer ships start rolling for their increase in CQ at the point of first detection (first lockon?) of a human ship, first launch of a missile, first shot fired?

7. Do you have a better formula for time to orbit than t (minutes) = (g X Mass of ship) / (10 X lift value X MW) ?

8. Any other websites that have rules that I should link to in the Alternate Rules section for rules that are "non-cannon but a really good idea"?

 

[BMonnery]

When making my file I had to guess at many rules that were unclear and I would like to take this oportunity to start a discussion on several questions. What have you used in your ship designs? Please be specific and complete in your answers inlcuding why you choose what you did.

1. Was the itent of the rules to be there should there be one targeting computer per ship or one per weapon mount?

2. Which formula should be used for accommodations mass and why? m=10 +0.1X(total accomidations volume) or m=(10+0.1X(volume of one accomidation)Xnumber of acccomidations

3. Should Submunitions get the benefit from a targeting computer?

4. Should there be a to hit bonus against a ship that is at All-Stop?

5. Should the surface area at the bow and stern of a ship be included?

6. Should Kafer ships start rolling for their increase in CQ at the point of first detection (first lockon?) of a human ship, first launch of a missile, first shot fired?

7. Do you have a better formula for time to orbit than t (minutes) = (g X Mass of ship) / (10 X lift value X MW) ?

8. Any other websites that have rules that I should link to in the Alternate Rules section for rules that are "non-cannon but a really good idea"?

I've obviously biased ;-)

1. Yes, or rather one per targeting system (TTA or UTES), or rather each TC can only deal with a single target. That is the explicit statement in the core rules.

2. The latter makes more sense. However, for consistency I've generally used the former, most GDW designs do.

4. Yes, although we managed to work out the nature of the weapons. A laser does not fire a continual burst of fire. Rather it stores up and delivers the whole lot in a single "spread", then spends the rest of the round (20 minutes) dumping the heat and powering up again.

The best rule of thumb is that all shot automatically hit an all stop target, since there is no uncertainty in its position.

5. GDW doesn't. This can be partially handwaved by assuming the endcaps are unarmoured, and probably used as heat exchangers.

6. As soon as the first human is "un-black globed"

 

[BMonnery]

I understand your point but I think the intent of the rules on hull masking is to mean radiators above and beyond what is standard and inherent in the construction of a ship hull. Yes I know, mention of such inherent radiators are entirely missing from the rules, something important in a game where we are supposed to be keeping track of surface area, but you may also notice that there is also no mention of the surface area taken up by portholes, hatches and maneuvering thrusters. Like characters going to the bathroom these things are vital and must exist but are never mentioned and it is just lumped in with 'something else'. What could this 'something else' be? Take for example turrets. Do you really think that a turret takes up 30m^2? -> that is a circle 6m in diameter. That is pretty big, is it possible that this area also includes a porthole, a hatch and a radiator panel? Even if a turret truly does take up 30m^2 all by itself is it impossible to mount a porthole, a hatch and a radiator panel ON TOP of a turret i.e. built into the turret’s skin? Similar arguments could be made for any surface fixture.

...and then there is the issue that if you blindly use the table for standard hull sections then the values listed for surface area do not include the surface are of the ends of the ship (but in the formula for custom hull sections they are accounted for!). The design for the Kennedy cheated itself out of 692m^2 that way. What other things could be mounted on the ends that were not mentioned in the rules?

Anyways, others share your concern. See the bottom of the document in Alternative Rules for Bryn Monnrey's "Cooling Starships, 2300AD's most serious starship error"

The turrets are actually too small. A 6m focal array just doesn't really cut it given the physics involved (yes, it's a 6m mirror!). If it does, then I'm happy to build a 12m FA and shoot out to 2 hexes......

Also, the ridiculously light weight of the laser weapons....

You work out the amount of energy dumped into them and a 1 ton laser will vaporise in it's first few minutes of firing (to be precise, it generates about 100 degrees C of heat a minute). A 1MW laser of the type described in 2300 is likely 1 "dton" of volume and about 40 tons of actual mass.

The Cooling rules are old, I've developed much better stuff, largely thanks to Attack Vector, I really need to edit the article.

 

[shaunhilburn]

When making my file I had to guess at many rules that were unclear and I would like to take this oportunity to start a discussion on several questions. What have you used in your ship designs? Please be specific and complete in your answers inlcuding why you choose what you did.

Nothing regarding architecture but...

Propagation delay: 15 hexes is near the practical maximum for controlling remote sensor drones and using active sensors. Farther than this and the telemetry round-trip exceeds a full turn. 30 hexes is the one-way signaling limit that will fit in a turn.

Stellar hexes: Only brown dwarfs, white dwarfs, or red dwarfs will fit in a hex. The sun is 2.32 hexes in diameter, so the largest star that will fit in a hex is 0.43 solar radii. The 0.1g boundary extends 5 - 13 hexes from a red dwarf, the sun's boundary extends out 18 hexes.

Planetary background radiation: vessels in a gas giant hex should have a Passive Signature reduction of -2. It should somehow mask the screen signature as well.

Pulse width: Let pulse duration = 100 µs, then laser bolts are ~30 km long.

 

[shaunhilburn]

7. Do you have a better formula for time to orbit than t (minutes) = (g X Mass of ship) / (10 X lift value X MW) ?

Rp Planet radius km
Ro Rp + orbit altitude km
g Planet gravity (Earth=1)
µ Gravitational parameter = gRp² × 0.00980665

T (seconds) = pi×sqrt((Rp+Ro)³/8µ) = pi×sqrt(((Rp+Ro)/2)³/µ)



I'm working up a simplified version

 

[BMonnery]

Pulse width: Let pulse duration = 100 µs, then laser bolts are ~30 km long.

The lasers have to be Q-switched, leading to bolts of a few meters long.

The scale is broken, the easiest fix is to alter the time dimension to roughly 17 mins (I round to 20), which, oddly enough, is the Classic Traveller space combat turn length. I believe they optimised based on traveller rules, then changed later.

The scale provoked one of the largest arguments in 2300 web history BTW....

 

[shaunhilburn]

7. Do you have a better formula for time to orbit than t (minutes) = (g X Mass of ship) / (10 X lift value X MW) ?

m planet mass (Earth=1)
r planet radius (Earth=1)

For a 300 km orbit, try:

T (min) = sqrt(r^3/m) × 43


This closely approximates the results from the formulas I posted earlier. These are the Hohmann flight times to orbit, e.g. from liftoff to OMS-2.

Vessels are high enough above the atmosphere to engage in combat after 8 - 10 minutes of the boost phase. After the boost phase and stage separation, they are suborbital and glide for about 30 minutes until they reach apogee and make a final burn, then they are technically in Low Earth Orbit.

For a *properly constructed* planet in the habitable mass range (0.2 - 3 earth masses) the Hohmann flight times are 40 - 50 minutes to a stable orbit, and around 2 hours to FTL altitude.

Vessels in 2300 use contemporary chemical rockets for interface flight, so I don't see much improvement over these times.

 

[shaunhilburn]

The lasers have to be Q-switched, leading to bolts of a few meters long.

My reasoning was that some "dwell" time is necessary due to the target's extremely fast stutter cycle, a long wide bolt of some substantial duration is necessary for maximum coverage, so that at least one of the bolts in a burst inflicts hits.

But my reasoning is often flawed

 

[BMonnery]

My reasoning was that some "dwell" time is necessary due to the target's extremely fast stutter cycle, a long wide bolt of some substantial duration is necessary for maximum coverage, so that at least one of the bolts in a burst inflicts hits.

But my reasoning is often flawed

It's not bad reasoning, but another thing to remember is that the laser pulse must be shorter than a stutter cycle, or the beam will be chopped up.

KevinC started his NAM2 project 14 years ago now. Might be time for me to just knock one out, the only thing I'm weak on is the interface stuff....

One of the major changes I'd make (aside from general fixes) is a system for designing turret weapons, in the process heavying them up. FWIW, it looks like the focal array may in fact be a 6m diameter disk of lead (!)

I'd also bear this (http://www.geocities.com/Area51/9292/2300/materials.htm ) in mind.

 

[kmsoice]

T (seconds) = pi×sqrt((Rp+Ro)³/8µ) = pi×sqrt(((Rp+Ro)/2)³/µ)

I am not following how you derived this equation, could you please explain. Remember, we are aiming for an equation for powered flight here (up AND down) that reflects the characteristics of a NAM designed ship, not a simple ballistic drop.

 

[kmsoice]

KevinC started his NAM2 project 14 years ago now. Might be time for me to just knock one out, the only thing I'm weak on is the interface stuff....

The Cooling rules are old, I've developed much better stuff, largely thanks to Attack Vector, I really need to edit the article.

Yes it is time! With the publication of 2320AD and hints of more to come I think we have a renewed intrest in the 2300AD universe and NOW is the best time in years for more material to be brought forth! We need to keep this ball rolling else it will die back to what it was 2002-2005 when most 2300AD websites stopped updating/disappeared.

I would also really like to see you publish the stats for solar cells and batteries that you used for the Sung freighter design you have on your website. One of the great weaknesses of the Star Cruiser game that I see is it's lack of equipment options, especially the civillian ones. I tried using my copy of 'Fire, Fusion and Steel' but gave up after I found the stats there disagree with Star Cruiser stats by several orders of magnitude on most any issue for a comparable equipment option. I lost most of my Traveller stuff several moves back but I presume you borrowed something TL9 from Traveller for solar cells and batteries.

 

[shaunhilburn]

I am not following how you derived this equation, could you please explain. Remember, we are aiming for an equation for powered flight here (up AND down) that reflects the characteristics of a NAM designed ship, not a simple ballistic drop.

Its the 'Time of Flight' formula for a Hohmann transfer orbit.

The ballistic ascent curve that a rocket flies into orbit is basically a Hohmann transfer ellipse that starts at the planet surface (perigee).

The time is derived from Kepler's third law, it is independent of the vessel's propulsion, power output, mass, or hull configuration (these variables affect the TOF slightly).

It takes ~50 minutes to reach low orbit for the smallest habitable planet and ~40 minutes for the largest. Wallowing up to the 0.1G altitude takes ~2 hours, or 120 Star Cruiser turns during which you are at 'All Stop'.

Star Cruiser vessels use ordinary rockets, unless you specify space opera propulsion there isn't a faster way up to orbit.

 

[shaunhilburn]

Yes it is time! With the publication of 2320AD and hints of more to come I think we have a renewed intrest in the 2300AD universe and NOW is the best time in years for more material to be brought forth! We need to keep this ball rolling else it will die back to what it was 2002-2005 when most 2300AD websites stopped updating/disappeared.

Radiators: cannot be hotter than the system they're cooling, and cannot operate above 1,500 K. Double sided radiators only need half the area. Hull panel radiators can't be double-sided. Radiators must be kept shaded or edgewise to the sun for maximum cooling efficiency.

Let radiator efficiency = 80%, then...

Radiator Area Signature
Temp K m²/MW Modifier
------ ----- ------
300 2,722
400 861
500 353
600 170
700 92 (Glows dull red)
800 54
900 34
1,000 22 (Glows orange)
1,164 12 -3 (Advanced hull masking)
1,219 10 -2 (Extensive hull masking)
1,449 5 -1 (Basic hull masking, glows bright orange)

 

[kmsoice]

Its the 'Time of Flight' formula for a Hohmann transfer orbit.

Ok, ok, it has been more than a few years since I took astrophysics so I did not recognize the Hohmann equation off the bat. But I do specifically remember from those classes that the Hohmann equation describes the orbit that uses the least amount of energy ... so I while I have no problem with keeping this equation in mind for normal, milk-run flights anything that requires performance i.e. when under fire which in this game is always else it would not be a game; the flight time is going to depend on things like thrust-to-mass ratio->which is going to depend upon things like what is the efficiency of a MHD or Nuclear powered (ooo, new rule! Fuel cells can not be used for thrusters!) rocket.

...and then there is atmospheric braking to take into account.

 

[shaunhilburn]

>which is going to depend upon things like what is the efficiency of a MHD or Nuclear powered

MHD thrusters produce feeble thrust, and very low acceleration - only practical in weightless space. They're incapable of spacelift and Hohmann transfers, MHD vessels travel on spiral paths called "brachistochrone" trajectories.

Realistically, the only propulsion system that can give cinematic spacelift performance is nuclear or thermonuclear. An Orion-style nukeship would fit the bill.

If none of this is appealing, then don't get caught on (or near) the ground.