Hmmm ... perhaps the colony's Colonial Office supervisor should arbitrarily
limit the introduction of cash ...
o:
A Frontier Barter Economy ?
- Thread starter rust
- Start date
limit the introduction of cash ...
o:
Sure, it could work as a barter economy but once the colony moves beyond self-sufficency is where the need for cash comes in. As they will usually possess something that someone needs nearby the basis of trade is laid. Not to mention those Imperial Megacorps usually have strings attached to the contracts they sign...
eg. "want to buy some farm equipment...sure just sign over exploration rights over your polar ice sheet...can't farm anything there, can you?" in few decades such a claim might prove valuable enough to start hiring locals. So, yes, they could use the local currency (seashells or scrip) but why not use good ole Imperial credits? Within a few years, these workers become quite rich by local standards start importing in some luxuries from neighbouring worlds using their credits. Pretty soon barter breaks down from the cold hard cash nexus.
eg. "want to buy some farm equipment...sure just sign over exploration rights over your polar ice sheet...can't farm anything there, can you?" in few decades such a claim might prove valuable enough to start hiring locals. So, yes, they could use the local currency (seashells or scrip) but why not use good ole Imperial credits? Within a few years, these workers become quite rich by local standards start importing in some luxuries from neighbouring worlds using their credits. Pretty soon barter breaks down from the cold hard cash nexus.
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
Hmmm ... perhaps the colony's Colonial Office supervisor should arbitrarily
limit the introduction of cash ...
And drive it underground :smirk:
More fun
tbeard1999
SOC-14 1K
Hmmm ... perhaps the colony's Colonial Office supervisor should arbitrarily
limit the introduction of cash ...
He could try -- if he was astute enough to recognize the danger ahead of time. And there's the little problem that government interventions in the market tend to create serious unforeseen problems...
For instance, what if cash really is the only thing that the starship has that the colonists are willing to take? The supervisor will (in effect) be limiting his colonists' ability to trade their products (not a real popular move on the frontier I'd expect).
And I suspect that greed would prevail over regulation. The colonists ignore the supervisor and trade with the starship crew. Or, the supervisor tries to exploit his authority and steer the trade to his brother. Etc.
Maybe a wealthy colonist wants to trade but agrees not to dump the money into the economy. The supervisor thinks this is a capital idea and restricts trade to the wealthy colonist. The wealthy colonist then trades with the other colonists for their goods, then sells at a steep markup to the starship. Our meddlesome supervisor has just favored the rich guy over the poorer colonists. Perhaps triggering a revolt against the supervisor (and his tiny contingent of company security)? What role will the PCs take? Will the colony charterer hold the PCs responsible?
tbeard1999
SOC-14 1K
I think that barter will survive as long as a colony is a significant distance away from civilization. Of course it will probably look like "virtual cash" bartering (i.e., using credits in store ledgers as a cash replacement as I described earlier), but it will still be bartering.
The reason is that external cash -- i.e., Imperial credits -- will be hard to come by, since the only way to get cash into the local economy is to sell local goods/services to outsiders for imperial currency. It will take a very long time for a colony to produce enough trade to properly monetize its economy. When there's little cash, an economy has no choice but to resort to barter and/or private currency -- which is what the notes from Sturn's store will ultimately become (see my example above). The problem with private currency is that it must be sufficiently rare to be used as currency. Seashells are useless if they are common. Or, it must be "backed" by assets with real value (such as the inventory in Sturn's store).
Of course, a colonial government may be tempted to print local currency. Indeed, it may be *necessary* for continued economic growth. Unfortunately, local currency carries significant economic risks, especially when governments start providing significant services. See, politicians know that printing more money (and increasing inflation) is generally more palatable to taxpayers than raising taxes (though they are the same thing in economic terms, except that inflation cannot be "tuned" like taxes can). So governments that issue fiat currency seem to me to invariably create inflation.
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tbeard1999
SOC-14 1K
Thank you all very much for your ideas.
It seems that even a small colony economy can provide a number of hooks
for conflicts and adventure for the characters.
Yeah, who knew there was so much adventure potential inherent in the inflationary potential of fiat currency...
CG,
I was posting under the assumption that the movie purchase was just one of many impulse purchases and that the ship's crew could trade freely with the colony as a whole rather than just an official representative.
Taking our 600 colonists, we can easily say there are 60 ten person "families" or work gangs or other social groupings. (I'd suggest there were more actually) If a quarter of those groups by the movie, or a movie, the colony just lost a week's rations. If we suppose that each of the ten person groupings made "impulse" purchases at a similar price, the colony just lost a month's rations.
If the colony's officials don't limit trading in some manner, a ship crew could "nickle and dime" a colony or portion of a colony into an inadvertent famine. This happened often enough in the real world.
Some sort of collectivism will be necessary, just as there is and has been in groups of similar circumstance in the real world. Social groups and individuals will not "own" everything they produce or even a majority of everything they produce. Neither will they have unfettered access to the colony's stored resources. Both of those mechanisms will limit the goods any group or individual may have available to trade, but the colony would still have to limit access to the visiting traders themselves.
Individuals and groups will trade away their basic subsistence for certain goods thus leaving their survival up to contributions from the larger group. If enough individuals and groups do that, the larger group may not have enough on hand to make up the shortfall. Again, this is a lesson from the real world.
The colony can prevent all this through the methods I've outlined, limiting the amount of goods available for barter and limiting access to traders. Another method may involve allowing trade between colonists and traders only to occur with currency. That could soak up any of the locally-worthless currency that might be floating around. It could also provide colonial officials with a method to spur productivity; rewards of currency whose only real use would occur when traders visit.
However the colonial officials decide to control or limit trade, there will be colonists and traders looking to circumvent those methods.
Regards,
Bill
I'm liking the art colony, the town could be New Sadona... then again pets are good.. afterall Tribbles came from somewhere.
:rofl:
saundby
SOC-14 1K
Furthering Ty's comments on currency, I resided in a small isolated community for a while where the local currency was personal checks. If, say, you got $10 worth of gas at the local station (remember the $10 fill-up?), and only had a $20 bill they'd give you someone's $9.65 personal check a quarter and dime in change. If they were out of coins, they'd write you a check for the difference, or you'd take a pack of gum or just agree to call it close enough.
You'd also pay with checks, rifling through your wallet to put together something like the right amount when buying groceries. I knew people who planned their shopping on the denominations of checks they had.
Every so often it'd go around town that someone was going into the city. Everyone would give them their checks in an envelope to get cashed, and the local merchants would give them vouchers for cash. There was one bank in the city that was known for being especially good at dealing with someone walking in with a satchel full of personal checks in envelopes from the sticks. So that was where you'd go. After a while, just about everyone in town had an account there to save making two stops at different banks.
It worked out well. Everyone was close (mining community) and was willing to cover each other, so when overdrafts and such happened someone would pitch in to cover, and work out something in return. One young woman couldn't balance a checkbook worth beans, but she was a great baker. More than one debt was settled with a cake. Later, she learned to barter cakes for accounting assistance to avoid shortfalls.
You'd also pay with checks, rifling through your wallet to put together something like the right amount when buying groceries. I knew people who planned their shopping on the denominations of checks they had.
Every so often it'd go around town that someone was going into the city. Everyone would give them their checks in an envelope to get cashed, and the local merchants would give them vouchers for cash. There was one bank in the city that was known for being especially good at dealing with someone walking in with a satchel full of personal checks in envelopes from the sticks. So that was where you'd go. After a while, just about everyone in town had an account there to save making two stops at different banks.
It worked out well. Everyone was close (mining community) and was willing to cover each other, so when overdrafts and such happened someone would pitch in to cover, and work out something in return. One young woman couldn't balance a checkbook worth beans, but she was a great baker. More than one debt was settled with a cake. Later, she learned to barter cakes for accounting assistance to avoid shortfalls.
CosmicGamer
SOC-14 1K
Whipsnade, way too many points in your post that i could discuss and elaborate on why I disagree. The main one is that if colonist are, um, dull witted and trade away and deplete a needed item to the point that it risks their survival... well, why waste time discussing their trade patterns, they probably won't be alive when the next ship comes to trade
. Using any example of it happening in the past is just a 'learn from your mistakes' example of a history lesson that should teach people not to do it again. Of course there is also the saying 'history always repeats itself'. :devil: Playing devils advocate to my own argument!. Not sure my other points of disagreement matter as much. No two colonies have to be the same and IYTU and IMTU things can be different.
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Indeed, that's why I am really thankful for stories like the one told by Saundby,
these are things I would never come up with myself, but which add that special
touch of realism to a setting.
So, I will put "cuisine currency" on my list.
tbeard1999
SOC-14 1K
In essence, this community created private currency ala Sturn, Giles et al in my example. Of course, this is an economically precarious approach. It worked for your community because there was a functioning legal system that made check writers ultimately accountable. And a sophisticated banking system that could sort everything out.
But it was an elegant solution. Checks are negotiable instruments. Once the payee endorses the check, anyone can cash or transfer it. In essence, a valid, endorsed check becomes a form of cash (although many folks are unwilling to take negotiated "third party" checks due to the risk of fraud).
tbeard1999
SOC-14 1K
Indeed, that's why I am really thankful for stories like the one told by Saundby,
these are things I would never come up with myself, but which add that special
touch of realism to a setting.
So, I will put "cuisine currency" on my list.
Bear in mind that private currency systems like this require a high degree of trust that a check (or note) is actually good. In a small, isolated colony, it could work (and has worked historically), especially if it's difficult for miscreants to leave the colony.
Another bit of color -- in earlier times (1950s and earlier) in the US, stores often had pads of blank checks for customers to use. They wrote their name and amount on the check. And their bank, if there were more than one bank in town. They didn't even have to know their account number.
saundby
SOC-14 1K
The system of using personal checks seemed S.O.P. to the old timers. When they spoke of the idea of using mine shares as currency, by contrast, they sounded like fire and brimstone preachers. Shares might get traded around, but only as "funny money." Basically only for something you'd be willing to be left flat on. You might use them as a tip, but it'd be rude if that was all of the tip.
Money from shares was often treated as "pennies from heaven", it'd be spent as soon as it was obtained. One guy fixed a car for a dinner, a beer, and some shares. On his next trip into the city he had a luxurious stay and plenty of entertainment thanks to those shares. At another time they might not have been worth enough to buy a six-pack.
Money from shares was often treated as "pennies from heaven", it'd be spent as soon as it was obtained. One guy fixed a car for a dinner, a beer, and some shares. On his next trip into the city he had a luxurious stay and plenty of entertainment thanks to those shares. At another time they might not have been worth enough to buy a six-pack.
Before the banking reforms of the 20th century, many countries didn't require checks to be in any standard form.
I've seen an 1890's era check (cancelled, marked "Presented & PAID") filed in US federal records, drafted by hand upon the back of an envelope. It mentioned the issuer, his address, his bank and its address, the amount in both numerals and longhand text, the date of issue, the payee, and then the signature and a witness' signature. Another, very similar, was handwritten upon lined paper.
Even now, it is possible to issue a non-standard negotiable instrument. I've done so. My credit union honored it, but verified it before payment. (I'd run out of checks, and printed the information on blank paper, including the routing numbers. They weren't happy, but they did negotiate it.)
I've seen an 1890's era check (cancelled, marked "Presented & PAID") filed in US federal records, drafted by hand upon the back of an envelope. It mentioned the issuer, his address, his bank and its address, the amount in both numerals and longhand text, the date of issue, the payee, and then the signature and a witness' signature. Another, very similar, was handwritten upon lined paper.
Even now, it is possible to issue a non-standard negotiable instrument. I've done so. My credit union honored it, but verified it before payment. (I'd run out of checks, and printed the information on blank paper, including the routing numbers. They weren't happy, but they did negotiate it.)
CG,
You can't disagree with history and what I described occurred repeatedly when "civilized" traders met "primitive" peoples in isolated regions.
Because it happened in the past, any well run colony is going to take care that it won't happen in the future. They'll regulate trade in some fashion, either by restricting the amount of goods that can be bartered, restricting access to the traders, or restricting the amount of currency available.
Trade is going to be strictly controlled because a small colony is just too susceptible to trade's ill effects.
Regards,
Bill
Aramis,
Years ago I had one of those "Book of Facts" publishers loved to pump out in the late 1800s. IIRC, the particular copy I had dated from just after the Spanish-American War.
Anyway, among the mind-boggling assemblage of facts ranging from kitchen sanitation to the primary exports of Tasmania to a listing of USN officers yearly pay was a one page primer on how to correctly write the types of "checks" you mentioned.
There were a few examples showing all the information that had to be included in a beautiful Palmer Method script.
Regards,
Bill
Years ago I had one of those "Book of Facts" publishers loved to pump out in the late 1800s. IIRC, the particular copy I had dated from just after the Spanish-American War.
Anyway, among the mind-boggling assemblage of facts ranging from kitchen sanitation to the primary exports of Tasmania to a listing of USN officers yearly pay was a one page primer on how to correctly write the types of "checks" you mentioned.
There were a few examples showing all the information that had to be included in a beautiful Palmer Method script.
Regards,
Bill
tbeard1999
SOC-14 1K
It's definitely possible. For a lark, I spotted a poker buddy $20 and had him write a check on a sheet of notebook paper. I then deposited it into my account -- the teller had to get help, but they did it. I think it did take unusually long to clear, though.
