A Mongoose Box Set?

[Spinward Scout]

I'm a little disappointed in how Liftoff! is being done. I guess I was looking for a nice set I could take maybe to a Convention or my FLGS or something and just play it out of the box. There's just too much "generation" in Liftoff. It slows down starting a game. You may as well buy the Core Rulebook. I want to make a set I can just play on the fly with little preparation. And a template here online that other people can use to build their own.

So here's my question:

What would you put in a Mongoose Traveller box set that needed very little preparation to play?

I'm thinking:

Spoiler:

Rules Cheat Sheets
- Task System
- Combat
- Starship Operations/Combat

Pre-generated Characters
- a minimum of 4
- I'm thinking Pilot, Doctor, Gunner/Merc, Engineer - what could you add to that, but keep it a small group?

Pre-generated Equipment/Vehicles/Starships
- A ship (there are a number of 100-ton ship designs on the 'net)
- An air/raft
- Equipment sheets could go with each character (Vacc Suit stats, weapons, etc...)

Dice
- the T5 dice are sweet!

Quick Adventures
- A Trader game?
- An Explorer game?
- A Mercenary/Ground Forces game? (similar to the Broadsword adventure supplement)
- A Space Combat game?

Book 0
- Do you need it if you have the cheat sheets?

Cool Artwork printouts?
- Always a plus

Anything else?

 

[exedore6]

I'm not sure I agree. Character Generation is a big part of what Traveller is for me (enough that the last thing I'd do in a Traveller starter set is to drop the lifepath risk/reward game). For that reason, I'm also uncomfortable with the Liftoff approach.

What I'd include.
Basic Character Generation (possibly stripped to The Draft, survival, promotion and skill rolls)
Tasks
Combat
and an open ended adventure (with pregens), that introduces players to the following setting elements:

Communication at the speed of travel
Economic driven system
The Starship (jump travel, interplanetary transit, ship's locker gear)
A starport & startown.

Maybe it looks like 'The Imperial Fringe'

 

[Shonner]

If you have Mongoose Traveller, you don't need Lift Off or whatever it's called. For cons and stores, bring pre-gens.

 

[Spinward Scout]

If you have Mongoose Traveller, you don't need Lift Off or whatever it's called.

Yes, Liftoff! is the Starter Set for Mongoose Traveller.

I just think they are focusing too much on making characters and not enough on playing characters.

 

[Shonner]

I just think they are focusing too much on making characters and not enough on playing characters.

Playing characters. That is a huge topic. So many ways to describe what that even is.

 

[Spinward Scout]

Playing characters. That is a huge topic. So many ways to describe what that even is.

But isn't that the point of a Starter Set - you have to start somewhere.

 

[rancke]

I would include the Drifter career AND six pregenerated characters in a starter set. Also several linked (same setting) starter adventures with pre-gens to get people started. And make a point to the referee that pre-gens can be used as important NPCs (important to a campaign, not socially).


Hans

 

[Golan2072]

I think that we should distinguish between two kinds of products here - demo rules and a basic set. Demo rules are intended to give prospective players a taste of what the game is all about, so that they can "try before they buy" the RPG. These are usually provided for free so that players and referees can get a taste before shelling out the cash to but a real product. The rules need not be complete, only enough to play one or several demo adventures to let people test the ruleset. A basic set, on the other hand, is a complete game, albeit limited in rule complexity, and is typically a commercial product, but one which could be played in many varied ways over a very long time. Compare the Shadowrun Quickstart Rules (demo) to the old D&d Starter Set or two Starter Traveller (basic games)... I don't think MGT really needs a basic product to start with (after all, all the basic rules already fit into the 190-page rulebook, which is quite simple), but a demo set (preferably free) would be very useful in letting new players experience Traveller.

 

[aramis]

Starter Traveller is a bad example. It was, in every way, a complete core rule choice for CT. Quite unlike the old D&D Basic Sets (Holmes, Moldvay, Mentzer, or Denning).

 

[Shonner]

But isn't that the point of a Starter Set - you have to start somewhere.

It's just a marketing term. Nothing to do with teaching how to play a character. For most Traveller players, the default way of playing characters ends up being to metagame.

 

[exedore6]

I'm confused, how is Mentzer Basic not a complete ruleset?

 

[Shonner]

I'm confused, how is Mentzer Basic not a complete ruleset?

It's a complete basic ruleset. The cheap version of AD&D.

 

[aramis]

I'm confused, how is Mentzer Basic not a complete ruleset?

Because the game only covers to level 3 in full detail, and level 5 with significant gaps; you need Mentzer Expert, Companion, and Master rules to have the complete game.

It's playable, but it's not complete, and it explicitly says it's not complete.

Similar is true for the others -
Holmes was intended to be a basic that lead to the AD&D PH, but the PH changed some of the rules.
Moldvay was expanded by Cook's Expert.
Denning's Basic (the BIG black box) was a subset from Alston's Cyclopaedia.

 

[Spinward Scout]

I don't think MGT really needs a basic product to start with (after all, all the basic rules already fit into the 190-page rulebook, which is quite simple), but a demo set (preferably free) would be very useful in letting new players experience Traveller.

Yes! That's it! Traveller needs Quickstart Rules!

 

[aramis]

Yes! That's it! Traveller needs Quickstart Rules!

They exist. Mongoose charges for them even in PDF.

 

[Spinward Scout]

They exist. Mongoose charges for them even in PDF.

Do you mean Book 0?

 

[rancke]

Do you mean Book 0?

Can't be. That one is free.


Hans

 

[aramis]

Can't be. That one is free.


Hans

It was $5 last time I checked it on DTRPG. Looks like they came to their senses.

 

[Spinward Scout]

My Mongoose Book 0 has a sticker price of $9.95, but I think I got it free at a Free RPG Day, if I remember right.

It's nice at only 32 pages long, but these are the problems:

- there's 11 pages of character generation plus a blank character sheet - definitely not Quick-Start if you have to take at least a half hour to roll up characters
- there are no starship samples and no space combat
- there's way more real-world weapons listed than there are Science Fiction-type weapons, even though the words "Science Fiction" are blatant on the cover
- several of the skills are unusable with the limited rules (i.e. Astrogation, Pilot, or Engineer (Jump Drive) are hard to use when there aren't any starships!)
- there are no Encounters, Patrons, Creatures, or Adventures
- there's a Combat section but no adversaries (i.e. nothing to combat)
- there's a ton of white space which from a Graphic Design/Page Layout perspective means they need a better Graphic Designer
- there's no color or really anything that screams "Play This Game!"
- there are no Pre-Generated Characters

From the Shadowrun quick-start rules

For these quick-start rules, pre-generated Character Record Sheets (at the end of this booklet) have been provided, with all their game statistics already noted, so players can immediately jump into the action.

If they could re-do Book 0 correcting everything I listed above and make a short Adventure or Setting Book to go with it, it would solve the problem and negate the need for the Liftoff! Starter Set.

Hopefully Liftoff! Starter Set won't make the same or similar mistakes. If it does, I have a feeling they are wasting their time.

 

[aramis]

My Mongoose Book 0 has a sticker price of $9.95, but I think I got it free at a Free RPG Day, if I remember right.

It's nice at only 32 pages long, but these are the problems:

- there's 11 pages of character generation plus a blank character sheet - definitely not Quick-Start if you have to take at least a half hour to roll up characters
- there are no starship samples and no space combat
- there's way more real-world weapons listed than there are Science Fiction-type weapons, even though the words "Science Fiction" are blatant on the cover
- several of the skills are unusable with the limited rules (i.e. Astrogation, Pilot, or Engineer (Jump Drive) are hard to use when there aren't any starships!)
- there are no Encounters, Patrons, Creatures, or Adventures
- there's a Combat section but no adversaries (i.e. nothing to combat)
- there's a ton of white space which from a Graphic Design/Page Layout perspective means they need a better Graphic Designer
- there's no color or really anything that screams "Play This Game!"
- there are no Pre-Generated Characters

From the Shadowrun quick-start rules


If they could re-do Book 0 correcting everything I listed above and make a short Adventure or Setting Book to go with it, it would solve the problem and negate the need for the Liftoff! Starter Set.

Hopefully Liftoff! Starter Set won't make the same or similar mistakes. If it does, I have a feeling they are wasting their time.

Except that you're conflating "Starter Set" and "Demo Set" (Demo Set = Quickstart).

They are NOT THE SAME.

A demo set needs VERY little. Just enough rules to play the included characters and adventure.

A Basic Box needs to be more complete - it's got to be a fully playable set of rules, not just "Just enough for the included adventure"... but enough to play for a considerable while.

Note that FFG's Beginner Boxes are right at the border. They lack Character Generation... but otherwise, they're a fully playable subset of the core rules.

Dragon Age Set 1 is a classic "Basic Box" - it lays out the core rules, character generation, and a wide range of play options.
Set 2 expands this out to more experienced characters, more starting races and classes, more gear, etc.

If liftoff is successful, I would expect to see a second box with more - expanding it to being fully equal to the MGT core, perhaps a bit more...

That model worked incredibly well for D&D. It's working well for Dragon Age.