Addicted to Classic Traveller

[mike wightman]

Hey, Mike. So when a PC shoots at an NPC (or another PC) wearing combat armor and rolls a hit, what do you (as a ref) do next in that situation as far as damage/injury?

Well I long ago dumped the combat matrix in LBB1 and Snapshot - I preferred the armour rues from AHL and Striker.

I now use an armour as damage reduction based on the T4 rules with a slight tweak from T20.

Roll damage dice and subtract 1 die per AV, removing the dice in the order of lowest to highest. When only 1 damage die remains any remaining AV is subtracted from the last remaining die.
Any remaining damage is assigned to a random characteristic.

I don't use the first blood rule as written either - I reserve that rule for critical hits or deliberate sniper fire.

 

[BytePro]

yeah, rule-lawyering munchkins would have less to argue with ct rules - and feel compelled to argue with the ref's decisions more.

WRONG. DEAD WRONG.

Our definitions of 'rules-lawyering munchkins' appears to differ

… To me, such means using the metagame rules as written to gain a less than believable in-game successes.

In the context of the above posts I was referring to LBBs 1-3 as the other material considered cannon certainly adds disjoint and contradictory rules, more errata, and to some degrees, undermines the balance of skills and a 2d6 mechanic.

In a codified universal task mechanic, ala MgT, the RAW supports a munchkin with Medical-0 PC doing brain surgery using time DMs, toolkit DM, assist DMs, etc. thus giving a fair chance of success given the RAW for difficulty levels. Which is fine, if one likes munchkin play, but not so good otherwise.

With CT rules as written the ref is given a reference supporting requiring the PC have Medical-3 and Dex 8+, (pretty non-munchkin, IMO), while at the same time, the wording only refers to titles of doctor and surgeon, so its the Refs call about whether a check is in order or not, and, by the rules as written, the target roll value is completely in the hands of the Ref.

So the rules-lawyer has no RAW to support contesting the Ref - he can just argue the Ref's decisions without rule support.

Likewise, print edition inconsistencies are just argument fodder - not valid rules lawyering since one can simply state the edition that is relevant.

Most of what I saw in the linked thread was just arguing due to careless reading, bad recall or out of context interpretations. <shrug>

CT Books 1-3 make up less than 70 normal sized pages of rules - which, if I'm not mistaken, is not only a lot shorter, but also simpler than everything that has come since. So, while still plenty to mis-read and argue over, there is simply less to rules lawyer about.

 

[aramis]

Our definitions of 'rules-lawyering munchkins' appears to differ

… To me, such means using the metagame rules as written to gain a less than believable in-game successes.

In the context of the above posts I was referring to LBBs 1-3 as the other material considered cannon certainly adds disjoint and contradictory rules, more errata, and to some degrees, undermines the balance of skills and a 2d6 mechanic.

Fundamentally, SO WAS I. I was referring to just the core rules - be it the LBB version or the Big Black Book (TTB).

There is plenty of meat for the lawyers in just the core. LBB 1-3, TTB, or Starter.

Failure to notice the various hidden chunks of game mechanics in Bk1 skill descriptions speaks not well for one's critical reading ability - sadly, a lot of people miss them. That is a major issue with the design mode of CT. People don't expect that they need to read the skill list for rules mechanics until confronted by a player who has and demands the mechanics therein be used.

 

[warwizard]

Now I've been around traveller for a very long time as well, I've hand rolled up my own area of play, before there were "sectors" and "subsectors" defined anywhere.
I've allways been intrested in the nuts and bolts of the hardware (including game mechanics) and not so much for the role playing. After 7 versions of Traveller I do still use some features of CT, most notibly the quick character generation system which I then carry over to T4 with almost no changes. How do you deal with a character that ends his character generation with a 11 Dex and 11 skill in combat rifleman? For me it's not using the rules that can produce such a character.

For me, the hardware has to be explainable. I see some aspects of the ship design rules in CT to be quite unbelievably wrong. Nuclear fusion folks, it does produce quite a lot of energy from making a little bit of light elements into heavier elements and I find 10 metric tons of hydrogen needed to fuel a 250 MW power plant for 30 days to be so inefficient as to be criminal, yet there are folks here that would defend that fuel usage to their dying breath.

CT is still alive for me as were the frakenstein's monster's parts alive. I like the hard science behind the Fire Fusion and Steel (FF&S) and will not go back to CT designs just like I will use T5's QREBS applied to T4 FF&S designs. It's ALL Traveller, every bit of it, and I'll shamelessly mix and match the bits that I like from whatever sourse without regard to cannon or de cannonized.

IMTU you may find a ship detailed in T4 FF&S crewed by CT characters, with a brilliant lances hit location sheet and a T5 QREBS entry on everything, hauling colonists for a World Tamer's handbook colony in a Pocket Empires polity.

 

[Frankymole]

But, I skip past the pages where Book 1 details the vagaries of combat. I tend to ignore vector movement with starship combat, so much so that I forget it's there. And I have never felt any enjoyment in detailed star system generation from Book 6, or ship design and fleet combat in Book 5 and Trillion Credit Squadron, or trade in Merchant Prince.

Where CT is detailed, I ignore it.

The range band combat from Starter Traveller is handy (did The Traveller Book have range bands for space combat?); the JTAS article (across two issues) about World-Building was a great read, building upon the Book 3 rules without the elaboration of Book 6.

I do like the Book 6 (and Grand Census/Grand Survey/World Builder's Handbook) systems but they're a bit out of date with current astronomical knowledge, and they are very slow without automation.

 

[Frankymole]

More importantly, I also used MegaTraveller character generation and the MT task system with CT. So even then I was slowly replacing bits that lacked a certain level of detail.

The task system started as CT anyway, in the old Traveller's Digest. The MT one was its ultimate refinement, I suppose.

 

[tim_manley]

First question -- where can I buy T5?

Second -- the combat is the 1st thing I house-ruled in CT. Role to hit, armor stops damage. Then I just Role-Play combat.

I did run a game a bit where I used the Phoenix Command Combat System for Traveller combat. Was incredibly brutal and realistic and folks avoided combat unless they had overwhelming odds and firepower.

 

[Baron]

I believe Marc will be selling T5 via his website, www.farfuture.net .

 

[Hyphen]

It's ALL Traveller, every bit of it, and I'll shamelessly mix and match the bits that I like from whatever sourse without regard to cannon or de cannonized.

W00T! A True Heretic(*)! Welcome to the clan, bro!

(*) Yes, I'm being ironic. In the past, some have claimed this mix'n'match concept "hereticism", when in strict religious-war canonical terms it should be called being very [small-c] "catholic" in your tastes. That is, universal.

 

[Blue Ghost]

There must be some psychological hook which has addicted me to Traveller -- in particular, "classic" Traveller (so, for example, the more T5 "embraces and expands on" the LBBs, the happier I am with it).

But I can't figure out why. A good friend once asked me what it was about Traveller that I would be so enamored with it. I didn't know.

Now I think I know.


Introspective: Executive Summary

I am entranced by the parts of CT which are fast and cover a lot of ground for little effort.

But, conversely, I skip past the rules where CT has a significant process depth.


Introspective: Boring Text

Book 1 chargen is fast but covers a lot of ground. It gives you a fun, easy character creation system, essentially in two pages.

Book 2 starships is fast but covers a lot of ground. It gives you a fun, easy but rather complete and consistent build system, essentially in two pages.

Book 3 worlds is fast but covers a lot of ground. It gives you a fun, abstract but playable and consistent build system, essentially in two pages.

Book 3 trade is fast but covers a lot of ground. It gives you a fun roulette-style game system, modified by worlds, balanced by starship expenses, essentially in two pages.

Ditto animals and psionics.

And there it is. Where CT is fast and covers a lot of ground, I am entranced.

But, I skip past the pages where Book 1 details the vagaries of combat. I tend to ignore vector movement with starship combat, so much so that I forget it's there. And I have never felt any enjoyment in detailed star system generation from Book 6, or ship design and fleet combat in Book 5 and Trillion Credit Squadron, or trade in Merchant Prince.

Where CT is detailed, I ignore it.

Therefore, it's not that I love Classic Traveller, but rather that so much of the basic system is enjoyable to me, in a way that most other game systems are not.

I've read a lot of sci fi and good well researched military fiction, as well as history, and other game systems just don't attract me for some reason. I looked at GURPS, I played a few others growing up, put them down when in university, but I also found myself gravitating back towards Traveller.

A large part of it is because you can incorporate any kind of setting you want with the system. When I was just entering junior college my friends were heavily into Macross. We never incorporated any Macross themed elements into Traveller, but the thought that you could do it, and so seemlessly (albeit with a lot of work) helps keep the system thriving.

Also it's simple on an interpersonal level; 7+ for success on 2d6, with appropriate modifiers. What more do you need? Fancy multi-sided dies? Nope, although if you really want to, you can incorporate D20s, d12, d4 or what have you. Even the infamous D100 (who really uses those?) can be used.

I haven't played in ages (a campaign in the mid and late 90s, and a couple other sessions in 2004 or 2005), but I love the vastness that the Traveller tapestry allows, and lets you codify elements from other milieus to formulate new settings that you can enjoy with your friends.

 

[robject]

I've read a lot of sci fi and good well researched military fiction, as well as history, and other game systems just don't attract me for some reason. I looked at GURPS, I played a few others growing up, put them down when in university, but I also found myself gravitating back towards Traveller.

I didn't really know about Traveller until I was working. Growing up, I played D&D and Gamma World (1st edition). Like D&D, Gamma World was sort of tailored to the setting; I could do anything, as long as it was post-apocalyptic Earth. In order to break out of the setting I needed a game that showed me how; I was too young to build house rules. Traveller would have given me what I needed.

 

[Dragoner]

I played D&D, Gamma World and Traveller all at the same time; even for about a year and a half in the mid 80's we mixed them all together in a Dune-ish campaign setting.

 

[rancke]

Therefore, it's not that I love Classic Traveller, but rather that so much of the basic system is enjoyable to me, in a way that most other game systems are not.

It's been a long time since I ran any Traveller campaign except for a couple of on-line ones, and even they were years ago. For the most recent ones I used GURPS Traveller rules because I wanted to get better acquainted with them. In the old days I began houseruling pretty soon, and eventually I adapted the rather comprehensive rules I had come up with for my Fantasy campaign to Traveller (for a while I planned to publish them as a set of universal rules). I still used some Travbeller rules, such as shipbuilding (QSDS) and system generation (World Builders' Handbook later mixed with First In). So, a mish-mash of non-Traveller rules mixed with bits and pieces from all the various versions. There are even some CT rules among them.

What fascinated me about Traveller then and still fascinates me is the OTU setting.


Hans

 

[Baltech Budapest]

Going back to the original post in this thread:
I totally understand what you mean regarding the addictive nature of CT.
Clean, simple, minimalist are words I would use to describe the LBBs.

Back in the mid-eighties as a teenager living in England I could never afford all those LBBs I used to see on the shelf in my local Games Workshop.

Between my brother and I we owned Starter Traveller Box and LBB 0. That was it!!.

Now I have teenage kids of my own I have returned to Traveller after all these years.
In 2010 I 'discovered' Mongoose Traveller and so I purchased the Pocket Edition of the core rules.
We played a somewhat modified version of 'Across The Bright Face' which I also purchased online.
Since then my Traveller addiction has gone into overdrive and finally, almost 3 years after re-discovering Traveller via the Mongoose edition I have tracked down and purchased every single LBB (except Supplement 5).

My kids and my brother are planning some big things for our adventuring in the Traveller universe now.

In addition to the LBBs I have also just purchased The Traveller Book for my 12 year old son.
And finally, to put the icing on the cake, and to confirm my fanboy addiction to all things Traveller, I purchased the Traveller mug from Quantum Enterprises via Far Future Enterprises page.

Next stop: The Alien supplements and the JTAS journals.

It's cost a fortune to collect what I wished I could afford to buy all those years ago but I am so glad and very proud to have the full collection of LBBs on my shelf.

Thanks Marc for supplying us with the tools to create such memorable adventures.Here's to another 36 years of Traveller.

 

[nats]

And finally, to put the icing on the cake, and to confirm my fanboy addiction to all things Traveller, I purchased the Traveller mug from Quantum Enterprises via Far Future Enterprises page.

Oh no you had to do it didnt you? I love mugs and I didnt know you could get a Traveller mug! Now I am going to have to get one

http://www.quantumenterprises.co.uk...ader-beowulf-with-starship-logo-/prod_50.html

 

[Baltech Budapest]

Oh no you had to do it didnt you? I love mugs and I didnt know you could get a Traveller mug! Now I am going to have to get one

http://www.quantumenterprises.co.uk...ader-beowulf-with-starship-logo-/prod_50.html

They are excellent aren't they?

There is a photo of mine on my twitter profile if you need to see it 'in the flesh'
I purchased the one with 'Referee' on it.
I shall definitely be getting more of that merchandise. I especially love the t-shirts with the option to have your UPP printed on the back. A nice touch and a great conversation starter (or stopper depending on who you are talking to).

 

[nats]

They are excellent aren't they?

There is a photo of mine on my twitter profile if you need to see it 'in the flesh'
I purchased the one with 'Referee' on it.
I shall definitely be getting more of that merchandise. I especially love the t-shirts with the option to have your UPP printed on the back. A nice touch and a great conversation starter (or stopper depending on who you are talking to).

Yeah I've just bought one. I just had to get the Free Trader Beowulf one - I love that text. Would love to get a T shirt as well but that will have to wait - just bought some MgT books on Ebay.

I very nearly also bought an 'Elite Dangerous' mug as well when David Braben's new project was up on Kickstarter a few weeks ago, but considering those mugs were all of £30 that will have to wait until they are produced for retail!

But, apart from the obvious kids/wife, they are the two loves of my life - Traveller and Elite - so amazing that they are both seeing new versions soon!

 

[Baltech Budapest]

Yeah I've just bought one. I just had to get the Free Trader Beowulf one - I love that text. Would love to get a T shirt as well but that will have to wait - just bought some MgT books on Ebay.

I very nearly also bought an 'Elite Dangerous' mug as well when David Braben's new project was up on Kickstarter a few weeks ago, but considering those mugs were all of £30 that will have to wait until they are produced for retail!

But, apart from the obvious kids/wife, they are the two loves of my life - Traveller and Elite - so amazing that they are both seeing new versions soon!

WOW I had no idea that Elite was getting a reboot.
I'll check that one out. Don't blame you for not paying 30 quid for a mug though.

 

[nats]

WOW I had no idea that Elite was getting a reboot.
I'll check that one out. Don't blame you for not paying 30 quid for a mug though.

Weren't you on planet earth over the Christmas period? How did you miss it?

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous

You can still be part of it here:

http://elite.frontier.co.uk/kickstarter.html#.UQejOGfDVNF

 

[Baltech Budapest]

Weren't you on planet earth over the Christmas period? How did you miss it?

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous

You can still be part of it here:

http://elite.frontier.co.uk/kickstarter.html#.UQejOGfDVNF

Haha, I don't know how I did miss it.
I will have a good look at that link now, cheers.
Fond memories of Elite on my Acorn Electron many years ago.

With me inspiring you to purchase the Traveller mug, you have (re)inspired me to order a matching Traveller Referee T-Shirt to go with my mug.

Go Traveller fanboys!!!