Adventurer: CT and OD&D. What if ?

captainjack · Mar 2, 2010

What if......D&D wasn't the first RPG.....
What if.....TSR was stillborn and certain miniature game developers went to work for GDW .....
What if....Fantasy RPG's were the stepchild of SF RPG's.........

What if....captainjack is bored and intrigued.....

Coming soon.
EDIT
Quick update:

I’ve reposted the combined main rules as a PDF, a general introduction (from the rules) and the magic section from the rules, as it’s generated its own interest.

Thanks !

http://www.box.net/shared/bha8gym72c

The seperate magic section has been updated to add clerical magic spells and rules.http://www.box.net/shared/8sl58qi3x0
I haven't added these changes to the main .pdf yet.

Below are the older versions, I'll keep the links open on the off chance anyone is interested in seeing the development/older drafts or making sense of the discussion.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

EDIT: Here is the first bit, Career and skill tables combined, and some notes. As per Aramis' suggestion, I'll update it in the files section, and link it from here as it continues.

Swordsmen and Sorceries ! (Chargen Part 1 V0.5 :Careers and skills)
http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=21822

More Swordsmen and Sorceries ! (Chargen Part 2 V0.5 :Mustering out)
http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=21823

Melee weapons (with extra Gygaxian Glaivey goodness..

captainjack · Mar 2, 2010

In Principio

It’s a simple premise that started this: that Gygax and Arneson had different inspirations than the one(s) that became D&D. From it (so far) has come at least two variants I really like: Mazes and Minotuars and X-plorers ; these ask “what if the font of inspiration was greek myths, or Science fiction". Really well done, check em out.

This, then, is that, but spun thusly: what if the first RPG wasn’t D&D at all, but rather Traveler ? I’m not even going to get into the possibility of this actually happening, I hasten to add, but rather just follow the idea up. Specifically, what if, as a result of TSR never having been formed or successfully launched, “the fantasy game” as it was called languished in a box in a garage for many years, and the it’s designers ended up at GDW – which IIRC, predates TSR. For a variety of reasons, the genre was born with Traveller (probably via Star Wars to popularize it), and Fantasy becomes the red-headed stepchild of the industry . Adventure Simulations Games (as they are called) cater to an endless variety of SF settings and adventures all ultimately derived from Traveler. Assume then that Gygax and Arneson finally convince GDW to try a new approach to travelling: something like that Robert E. Howard/Lovecraft genre , but the swords and sorcery version more than the pulp horror of Seeker (by Chaosium games); like in Fritz Leiber's stuff ? or, heck, Anderson's fantasy stuff...... Low tech, ya' know ? C'mon Marc, pleeeeeeze ?

And so, in 1977, following the phenomenal success of book 8 (Droidbots), The Adventure game is dragged out, dusted off, and months later, Book 9 Adventurer is released. What might that look like ?

My goals: as people here know, I’m always flirting with low tech traveler, and indeed some excellent variants have been produced (Mercator, Wanderer, Flynns guide to magic, and probably others I have missed); ironically, I’ve also been on the “lets just not use D&D mechanisms and call it traveler” train, but it got me wondering –what if the mechanisms and design of Traveller were applied to the style and sensibilites of D&D ? And not just any D&D, but original three little books in a brown or white box edition D&D ?

Well, yes, it’ll probably suck……but that’s never stopped me, has it ?

More to come.

* based on the published authorship credit, and no I don’t want to touch that either

captainjack · Mar 2, 2010

So: basic careers: Fighter, Barbarian, Noble, Commoner, Mage, Priest......and Other .

far-trader · Mar 2, 2010

What? No Thief career?! Ahh, the old mistaken belief that Traveller's "Other" career was all nefarious

Might I suggest instead:

Sailor (Navy - wet instead of Space)

Marine (Marine - again wet instead of Space)

Soldier (Army of course)

Ranger (Scouts naturally)

Trader (Merchants)...

and of course Other (for all the other careers, including but not limited to Thieves).

...with Mages and Priests being handled by Power (ala Psionics).

ShapeShifter · Mar 2, 2010

What? No troubadour??

"Strum, strum, strum....strum the lovely lute!"

There's plenty of S&S/Fantasy RPG's out there. No need for another one.

Traveller is firmly SciFi and should remain so.

rancke · Mar 2, 2010

captainjack said:
So: basic careers: Fighter, Barbarian, Noble, Commoner, Mage, Priest......and Other .

When I began on my verison of Wanderer, I went with Soldier, Sailor, Scholar, Trader, Rogue, and Barbarian.

Hans

aftabthegreek · Mar 2, 2010

Cool - looks like a good idea! Application of the Traveller format rules structure/career path with a fantasy background.

Look forward to seeing the results...

captainjack · Mar 2, 2010

I probably should have noted that one of my design parameters was to produce an OD&D LBB1, really. For the OD&D my goal was to similarly use the concepts of the original three books -thus, sans Greyhawk (and thieves) and thereafter. I originally had only the three canonical ODD classes -but I added Barbarian in keeping with the Sword and Sorcery setting; Noble and Commoner are how I replace the draft. They are where you go if you fail to become an adventurer. The draft seemed an excessive anachronism.
As to the Other career ?

Well, original Traveller had it, so, dammit, Adventurer will too.

More importantly, I'm not assuming that other = rogue. As in LBB1, it covers all other kinds of adventurer -some of which are rogues, I admit. So, that + OD&D having no Thief = Other.:smirk:

captainjack · Mar 2, 2010

ShapeShifter said:
What? No troubadour??

"Strum, strum, strum....strum the lovely lute!"

Troubadors are accomdated under "failed survival rolls":devil:

There's plenty of S&S/Fantasy RPG's out there. No need for another one.

Traveller is firmly SciFi and should remain so.

Noted. keep in mind that until recently, Sword and Sorcery was considered part of Sci Fi. But I do understand.

captainjack · Mar 2, 2010

Attached is the enlistment table.

EDIT: I've moved the updated version of the files to the first post, and merged it with later files. Enjoy, read, play and comment !

far-trader · Mar 2, 2010

captainjack said:
I probably should have noted that one of my design parameters was to produce an OD&D LBB1...

Ah yes, never mind then

I think I'd kind of deduced that from the first but swiftly forgot it. Come to think though, what are we (you) talking when you say OD&D? What were the classes? Fighter, Cleric, and Wizard? I vaguely recall Elf, Dwarf, and ?? (Halfling??) being classes, careers or whatever (not races) too in what I think of when I talk OD&D.

In any case do carry on

far-trader · Mar 2, 2010

ShapeShifter said:
What? No troubadour??

"Strum, strum, strum....strum the lovely lute!"

"Strum, strum, strum....give us all your Loot!"

Whaaat?

ShapeShifter said:
There's plenty of S&S/Fantasy RPG's out there. No need for another one.

Not even if it's one that creates a prehistory, allows a party of trouble-shooters with ownership staked in a sailing ship and investors to satisfy by hauling passengers and freight across the seas, and gambling on speculative cargoes of spices and silks? While getting mixed up in all kinds of intrigue and acts of daring do all in the name of the Empire?

I vote there is a need. Well, at least an interest.

ShapeShifter said:
Traveller is firmly SciFi and should remain so.

Some would disagree (looking at Mongoose... )

captainjack said:
Noted. keep in mind that until recently, Sword and Sorcery was considered part of Sci Fi. But I do understand.

Bah! A pox on their houses! Sword and Sorcery IS NOT Sci-Fi. Any who say so... well, they need an education

In my opinion. It may be lumped in together at times because book merchants can't be bothered to know the difference but that doesn't make it so.

ghashsnaga · Mar 2, 2010

ODD -> Traveller

It's funny you are working from ODD -> Traveller.

I just finished up a documents that that goes from Traveller to ODD. I was pondering what would ODD look like if it had been done by Traveller folks.

ara

captainjack · Mar 2, 2010

far-trader said:
Bah! A pox on their houses! Sword and Sorcery IS NOT Sci-Fi. Any who say so... well, they need an education In my opinion. It may be lumped in together at times because book merchants can't be bothered to know the difference but that doesn't make it so.

Wellllll. I'm pretty sure that the distinction is new -if not newer than Traveller, I admit. I know Fritz Lieber was nominated for or won a...Hugo ? For a fafhrd and the Grey mouser story; and lots of the S&S genre pre Tolkein was really more about unimaaginable alien science being seen by more primitive humans than....."its elven magic !" Poof.

But I digress.

Thanks for the support as to why....although the merchant and retired military port of traveller to fantasy is pretty definitively covered in Mercator -which I love and hope not to reinvent, by the way.

captainjack · Mar 2, 2010

ghashsnaga said:
It's funny you are working from ODD -> Traveller.

I just finished up a documents that that goes from Traveller to ODD. I was pondering what would ODD look like if it had been done by Traveller folks.

ara

I think thats what my approach is : what if G&A wrote D&D as a traveller supplement. Did I screw up my explaination ?

captainjack · Mar 2, 2010

far-trader said:
Ah yes, never mind then

I think I'd kind of deduced that from the first but swiftly forgot it. Come to think though, what are we (you) talking when you say OD&D? What were the classes? Fighter, Cleric, and Wizard? I vaguely recall Elf, Dwarf, and ?? (Halfling??) being classes, careers or whatever (not races) too in what I think of when I talk OD&D.

In any case do carry on

Oh, I will.....I will....Mwaaa haaa haaa !

The D&D (original) version I'm using for a tremplate is essentially "Men and Magic" from the first three book set. Three classes (Fighting man, Magic User and Cleric), and race and class are seperate. "Race as class" is from a later version, a concept which I politely disdain.

far-trader · Mar 2, 2010

captainjack said:
...

...although the merchant and retired military port of traveller to fantasy is pretty definitively covered in Mercator -which I love and hope not to reinvent, by the way.

True, I was trying to recall the name of it, thanks for filling in the blank I drew.

And I had mistakenly read your own approach, variants are good.

rancke · Mar 2, 2010

captainjack said:
More importantly, I'm not assuming that other = rogue. As in LBB1, it covers all other kinds of adventurer -some of which are rogues, I admit. So, that + OD&D having no Thief = Other.:smirk:

You seem to be assuming that a rogue is a criminal. That's not the case. It covers all kinds of scamps and vagabonds -- some of which are criminals, I admit. IMO 'rogue' is a perfect synonym for 'other' in the Traveller sense.

Hans

rancke · Mar 2, 2010

captainjack said:
Noted. keep in mind that until recently, Sword and Sorcery was considered part of Sci Fi. But I do understand.

If by 'recently' you mean '50 years ago'. It was coined by Michael Moorcock in a letter to the fanzine Amra in 1961.

EDIT: Oh, and Sword and Sorcery was never considered part of Sci Fi but a sub-genre of Fantasy.

Hans

beowulf2044 · Mar 2, 2010

Let's not forget the monsters, such as the Lion Men, or the Dog Men.

Adventurer: CT and OD&D. What if ?

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