AKEs in the 3I world

[Garyius2003]

The more I think about it, there must be some sort of military support ship that goes with battle squadrons carrying supplies. The US Navy calls supply and ammo ships AKEs. They are big but not huge. The 3I fleets need supplies after a battle, and won't be near a base in most wars once the counter offensive begins.

In the Mongoose version, I assume a ship like a Tigress will need 5KdT of reloads, a more normal battleship will need 1.5 or so, and Crurons will need 5K or so each.

That leads me to size. I want them to be big enough to hold meaningful supplies, but not be a major target or be irreplaceable. 13 or 14K?

In Mongoose, maybe a J4 TL12, armor 8, 2G, some screens, bay, barbettes, turrets. Just enough to be less worried about sneak fighter and CE attacks.

For usability, modular cutters, and some stuff the fighting ships don't carry like repair pods and maybe 2-3 tugs. Cargo bots and drone container handlers for faster and accurate unloading.

Then have 5k (ish) of supplies. In Mongoose 4K of that will be reloads. Battle, move back from the planet or gas giant into fleet formation, transfer the load. Convoy up the now empty AKEs with a cruiser or two, some CEs, and run back to base to load up again.

TL12 to spread the ship contract money around. Just enough to get the job done, without making the loss of such a ship a major blow to the fleet.

Take off the Tugs and repair pods, roll in some pre-made stateroom sections, and you have a troop transport for an armored Bn or two infantry Bns.

I know we have been debating that there is too much navy directed tax money in the 3I for the size of the fighting fleet. 50 or 60 of these ships running around the Marches, along with large pre-positioning stocks at the different bases, would do much to explain at least some of the extra money.

 

[Gray Pennell]

I like this but would include fuel tankers on this scale as well. If you can bring enough fuel to do at least a jump one for the fleet than you have some grand tactical maneuvering room.

 

[madmike]

Back when I was in a ship design frenzy, I designed a 100KdT fleet tender that could also manufacture replacement parts and munitions as required to replace expenditure and replacements for damaged parts.

The "Lost Fleet" series by Jack Campbell uses the same thing.

They are big, slow and have their own escort of heavy cruisers or even a battlecruiser or two.

 

[samuelvss]

I agree, though I don't have the time to work up the numbers.

They would need to have reloads, provisions, and replacements. A large cold watch would be potentially in order.

Another, related and complementary idea I had was magazines (in the 18th century meaning), or caches of supplies in deep space; caches of fuel, especially, would allow the fleet to "shape terrain" by doing a fast move.

In addition, having facilities to do a "refit at sea" would be beneficial. One problem with jumpspace being 2D is that the strategic options tend to be limited. Using secret areas in deep space to refuel and/or refit would be a game-changer.

 

[Garyius2003]

Back when I was in a ship design frenzy, I designed a 100KdT fleet tender that could also manufacture replacement parts and munitions as required to replace expenditure and replacements for damaged parts.

The "Lost Fleet" series by Jack Campbell uses the same thing.

They are big, slow and have their own escort of heavy cruisers or even a battlecruiser or two.

I gave 100/200K some consideration, but that turns a supply ship into the goal for the enemy.

 

[BTolputt]

In addition, having facilities to do a "refit at sea" would be beneficial. One problem with jumpspace being 2D is that the strategic options tend to be limited. Using secret areas in deep space to refuel and/or refit would be a game-changer.

I didn't know jumpspace was meant to be two dimensional. Does anyone recall where I can read about that nature of Travellers primary hand-waved foundation?

 

[madmike]

I gave 100/200K some consideration, but that turns a supply ship into the goal for the enemy.

True, but that is why they have an escort and a battlefleet in front of them

 

[BlackBat242]

I didn't know jumpspace was meant to be two dimensional. Does anyone recall where I can read about that nature of Travellers primary hand-waved foundation?

All the sector charts are 2D... they have distances core/rim and leading/trailing, but there is never in any of the rules anything that places any system "up" or "down" from any others.

In the real universe, sometimes you can go "up" to another system, from which it is easier to go where you want to go, but Traveller does not allow that kind of interstellar movement.

 

[nDervish]

Using secret areas in deep space to refuel and/or refit would be a game-changer.

And it's even canonical. T4 Pocket Empires allows for fleets to set up deep-space depots which "represent a military maintenance and supply station hidden in the depths of space." Some of the examples and fluff sidebars make direct reference to other PEs not necessarily knowing about them. ("Fool! Your failed attack revealed to them that we must have a deep space depot nearby!")

 

[BTolputt]

All the sector charts are 2D... they have distances core/rim and leading/trailing, but there is never in any of the rules anything that places any system "up" or "down" from any others.

In the real universe, sometimes you can go "up" to another system, from which it is easier to go where you want to go, but Traveller does not allow that kind of interstellar movement.

OK, I get where you're coming from but that doesn't technically make 2D jump-space canon. It simply means that, conveniently, the 3D spaces described can be flattened into 2D maps without appreciable distortion in the jump distances. The nav computers know the real 3D offsets and that's what counts

Yes, we know that the likelihood of that being possible given the wide area of space mapped, but that seems to be something we can forgive for purposes of game simplicity. I was more interested in if there had been a canon statement that jump-space actually flattened 3D space into two dimensions through some hand-waved aspect of how the fictional science worked.

 

[rancke]

OK, I get where you're coming from but that doesn't technically make 2D jump-space canon. It simply means that, conveniently, the 3D spaces described can be flattened into 2D maps without appreciable distortion in the jump distances.

And since this is actually impossible, what it really means is that for game purposes the 3D nature of interstellar space is deliberately ignored. As I tell my players: "That's the way it is and, no, I don't want to discuss it."


Hans

 

[BTolputt]

And since this is actually impossible, what it really means is that for game purposes the 3D nature of interstellar space is deliberately ignored. As I tell my players: "That's the way it is and, no, I don't want to discuss it."

As I said, it seems to be something ignored "for purposes of game simplicity", not as an aspect of the setting's hand-waved science extras.

After all, one can use jump-space to save tim inside the system, which would require jump-space (in the 2D jump-space theory) to somehow conform to the ecliptic planes of all the stars; not just how it ignores the 3D position of the stars relative to one another.

I'm not actually against the idea of a 2D jump-space explanation. Hell, one sci-fi universe I quite liked had the concept of "under-space" where the relative locations of the stars in "real space" had not bearing on their relative locations in FTL space. I liked that idea alot - it had potential.