Rules Only: Alternate Methods of Life Support Recharge?

[Greylond]

There are rules in each game system for Life Support recharge/maintenance, however, I'd like some opinions on what it would take to recharge the life support system for a ship without a Starport visit. Obviously, just docking with a big enough Space Station or setting down on a world with an appropriate atmosphere can refresh the actual atmosphere carried. Trade with locals or a combo of Hunting/Fishing and Gathering vegetable matter could replace food stocks. Actual food/water needs per Human per day is easy to find and calculate.

However, what else needs to be Recharged? Life Support Air Scrubbers perhaps? Flushing of the waste/water reclamation system? Life Support System Maintenance, i.e. filters changed/cleaned?

So, suppose a Starship comes out of Jump at a planet with a low Tech level and perhaps no knowledge/contact with the Imperium, what do others think would be involved in Life Support Recharge? How much could be done by the Ship's Crew? Obviously that sort of thing would take time, perhaps that's why most ship's crews just pay the fee for it? With Ships carrying skilled/experienced Engineers then I don't see why a Ship's Crew couldn't do it, provided parts were available, but it's probably a time/convenience matter.

On a related subject, how do exploration ships who have no idea if they will encounter a proper starport setup for it?

 

[Fritz_Brown]

I was under the impression the Scout ship replaced its scrubber filter once a year? So, a lot of the 'recharge' (besides air and such) may be included in the annual maintenance. Exploratory ships would plan to return by the time they required maintenance, or have supplies and capabilities to do so "in the field".

 

[Greylond]

Well, even CT has a Life Support Charge per Occuppied Stateroom per trips(2 weeks). So there must be something that needs to be replaced/maintained aside from Food restock. Also, I don't think you'd want a completely closed system to only be cleaned once per year. Mold/Slime problems galore...

 

[HG_B]

So, suppose a Starship comes out of Jump at a planet with a low Tech level and perhaps no knowledge/contact with the Imperium, what do others think would be involved in Life Support Recharge? How much could be done by the Ship's Crew?

At the TL's we're talking about, O2 would be separated from CO2, H2O reclaimed from waste & humidity. Filters would be long term reusable & cleanable by crew. So a bit of water & food replenishment and solid waste disposal is all you have to worry about.

 

[Greylond]

Yea I agree, but I can see an argument for periodicly opening up all the air supply conduits and hatches of the ship and airing them out due to slime/mold build up.

 

[Darkwing]

At the TL's we're talking about, O2 would be separated from CO2, H2O reclaimed from waste & humidity. Filters would be long term reusable & cleanable by crew. So a bit of water & food replenishment and solid waste disposal is all you have to worry about.

Like Greylond says, cleaning for mold and such would need to be done. I agree with you that long-term, reusable filters and such would be readily available, but I could easily see disposables being preferred by many crews for the ease of cleanup - once a month, pop out the old ones, toss 'em out the airlock, install the new ones, and don't worry about cleaning until the annual maintenance.
Which is fine until they get stuck dead in space for too long, then they're trying to nurse those disposables through multiple reuses. Just the thing to get them into trouble...:devil:

 

[HG_B]

Yea I agree, but I can see an argument for periodicly opening up all the air supply conduits and hatches of the ship and airing them out due to slime/mold build up.

At least every 6 months.

 

[Greylond]

At least every 6 months.

So translate into "Navy" terms would mean every 3 months...

Sorry, having flashbacks to the Navy's Preventive Maintenance System checks...


Good input on the subject so far, I like it.

This hasn't come up for me yet, but I know my players and this is the sort of thing that they are liable to try...

 

[CosmicGamer]

Ok, first, on the silly side. For those rules lawyers. The cost is based on staterooms, so if I have a ship designed without staterooms and the crew sleeps in hammocks on the bridge and in common areas.....

My point: The rule is a basic generalization of the average needs and costs broken down into a monthly cost.

cleanable by crew

Yes, cleaning filters. Waste treatment chemicals. Chemicals used to wash clothes. Wood polish. Metal polish. Whatever might be used every time passengers board and depart the ship and pass through the airlock and get "sanitized". Whatever cleaning supplies are needed to clean a stateroom, it's linens, and prep it for new passengers. Little mints for the pillows of high passengers. Maybe robes and fuzzy slippers for those high passengers too? Air freshener mists. Little bottles of shampoo. Little bars of soap. Kleenex. Toenail clippers, hairbrush and other misc items given out to passengers that may have forgotten something. Garbage bags. Coffee filters. Toothpaste. Thread and other supplies for the automated clothing repair bot. Electronic subscriptions to newspapers, magazines, netflix and so on. New versions of the games and programs on the entertainment system.

Do you really need to go into all the possible things and want to role play acquiring them? Yes, some of it may be things needed once a year, twice a year, monthly, even totally unpredictable periods because you probably won't need exactly the same things in the same quantities every time. How often are linens replaced? How often does a passenger shove a mug, a pillow, or some other item into their luggage?

For me, a nice general figure that you just pay and it's all covered is sufficient. I don't want to play accountants in space nor janitors in space.

Maybe some items might be stocked up on if you know you are going to be somewhere remote.

Certain life support requirements might need to be in place to be in compliance and officially allowed to carry passengers.

If for some reason you miss a "restock" and you are in an area of space that doesn't have strict requirements, perhaps you have trouble finding passengers willing to put up with a lack of food, dirty tables, stains on the carpet, stinky freshers, red warning lights in the airlock...

Maybe you hunt or trade for food but they are too low tech to meet all the needs and maybe the crew starts looking unshaven, unkept, and are smelly....

Maybe sleeping pills, bandaids, pain pills, or more serious medical supplies get used up.

 

[rancke]

I think that at least some of the cost of life support is a result of visiting ships being captive customers combined with premiums paid by regular freighters and liners to have it done fast; the starport then charges visiting free traders the same outrageous prices.

Although that does go some of the way to explain sky-high life support costs, it does seem to imply that there ought to be ways for irregular ships to cut corners and that rules or at least guidelines to gamemastering for players who enjoy cheeseparing would be nice.


Hans

 

[Darkwing]

I don't want to get all wrapped up, either, but some off-the-table thinking here allows me to pull things out of thin air during the game - PCs are passengers on a ship, and life support breaks down. They find out the crew ran out of disposables, and reused them, but didn't switch to a proper cleaning regimen. Now the PC engineer can't just say "swap filters!". He's got to think about how to actually fix this until they get into port. Or a rumor in a starport bar tells about such a ship being found - no survivors. Another bar "rumor" is the steward complaining about those variables you mentioned. All nice, easy, background versimilitude.

 

[Greylond]

Well, the most likely situation I was thinking about is the possibility of a Mis-jump that brings the ship to a system/mainworld that has a low tech level.

Detailed items are good for a discussion but at the table I'd just go with a quck/easy ruling and not slow down the game. What I'm thinking of is just having a set amount of "downtime" or man hours that need to be accounted for in order to recharge Life Support...

 

[CosmicGamer]

Something I just thought of. Would maintaining gravity be part of life support? The technology here is fairly magical so who knows what routine maintenance and cleaning it might need.

Also, add to my earlier post. Chemicals and supplies for pest control.

 

[Greylond]

Nah, pest control is easy on a Starship. Exit atmo of the world/undock from the highport, suit up everyone in a Vacc Suits and evacuate the air shipwide, then land/dock again and clean up the small bodies...

 

[aramis]

Well, we know that all ships leak. Not much, but they leak.

So, you've got

• food - mix of refer and room temp
• water
• replacement O2
• laundry supplies (expect supplies safe for use with the water recycler
• system) such as peppermint soap
• LS fan lube
• LS filters
• CO₂ scrubbers
• possibly a replacement washcloth and towel,
• maybe a monogrammed bathrobe with the ship's logo,
• rescue bubble mask (easily reused, but for various "ick factor" reasons, probably not without going through a dirtside supplier)
• sound tube headphones (like the airline ones)
• disposable dishware for 2 weeks
• TP, paper towels
• waste processing bacteria recharges
• shipboard air-safe cleaners
• allotment of anagesics and disinfectants, species specific.
• beverage mix assortment - probably enough for 2L a day for the two weeks of a charge
• toothbrush/toothpaste or equivalent
• disposable comb
• air safe filterable scent charges
• "Flatulence" scrubbers (filters which chemically bind methyl mercaptan, sulfur dioxide, and methane)
• toilet seat covers
• cheap slippers
• barf bags, zero-g capable
• zero-g urinary tract adapter (again, ick-factor)

 

[Greylond]

Interesting list Aramis, thx!

 

[McPerth]

Addition to Aramis' list:

- vaccines for the next world to be visited (I've always assumed this is one of the tasks for the ship's medic to offer to passage)

 

[Cryton]

Well, we know that all ships leak. Not much, but they leak.

So, you've got

• food - mix of refer and room temp
• water
• replacement O2
• laundry supplies (expect supplies safe for use with the water recycler
• system) such as peppermint soap
• LS fan lube
• LS filters
• CO₂ scrubbers
• possibly a replacement washcloth and towel,
• maybe a monogrammed bathrobe with the ship's logo,
• rescue bubble mask (easily reused, but for various "ick factor" reasons, probably not without going through a dirtside supplier)
• sound tube headphones (like the airline ones)
• disposable dishware for 2 weeks
• TP, paper towels
• waste processing bacteria recharges
• shipboard air-safe cleaners
• allotment of anagesics and disinfectants, species specific.
• beverage mix assortment - probably enough for 2L a day for the two weeks of a charge
• toothbrush/toothpaste or equivalent
• disposable comb
• air safe filterable scent charges
• "Flatulence" scrubbers (filters which chemically bind methyl mercaptan, sulfur dioxide, and methane)
• toilet seat covers
• cheap slippers
• barf bags, zero-g capable
• zero-g urinary tract adapter (again, ick-factor)

You seem to have forgotten bedding supplies.

Sheets, Blankets, pillows ect. The why being is that as you travel world to world, washing may not be enough to prevent spread if pathogens to passengers from previous passengers.

 

[Greylond]

- vaccines for the next world to be visited (I've always assumed this is one of the tasks for the ship's medic to offer to passage)

Good one but not something that a Ship could pick up if not at a Starport.

 

[McPerth]

Good one but not something that a Ship could pick up if not at a Starport.

Sure, but I understood Aramis' list was about you routinely bay at a starport with thos 2000 cr per stateroom (3000 if double occupancy in MgT), and so what will you miss if forced to recharge your life support out of an starport...