Ah, Ok. In that case, definitely thx for that...
Rules Only: Alternate Methods of Life Support Recharge?
- Thread starter Greylond
- Start date
Ah, Ok. In that case, definitely thx for that...
Most of the filters will be "take them off ship, flush them with toxic stuff that you might be able to synthesize in order to clean them, and then reinstall them."
Lithium Hydroxide can be vacuum recharged. Heat the expended goods in a vacuum...
CosmicGamer
SOC-14 1K
Don't forget the charge for cleaning up all the dead critters. Now you need to replace all the air and how much will that cost? If you are truly off the beaten path, what if your stop is a location without atmosphere and there isn't any air you can purchase?Nah, pest control is easy on a Starship. Exit atmo of the world/undock from the highport, suit up everyone in a Vacc Suits and evacuate the air shipwide, then land/dock again and clean up the small bodies...
DangerousThing
SOC-13
For ships with long-term goals in uncharted space, there must be some way to recharge life support in the wild or at very low-tech worlds.
My players will be the crew of a trade pioneer/exploration ship and it will be expected to be outside the Confederation (the known civilized world) for up to a year at a time.
I figure that by having the T5 120 day life support multiplied by the max number of inhabitants (divided by ten) multiplied by four it should last an Imperial Year (IMTU this is 360 days). The food supply is a highly concentrated goop that the "food processor" turns into something almost as good as real food. Air is easy to replenish at a planet with breathable air or by getting it from water or ice. Fuel for this ship is radioactives and they have a small processing plant if they can find ore.
They have a skilled doctor and lots of supplies. Yes, if they have to take on food at a primitive planet it will take more space to store than the concentrated goop and hopefully somebody will know how to cook.
As for shampoo, I'm assuming sonic showers like in the pulp SF I used to read. Hopefully they'll find toilet paper before they run out.
o:
Am I missing anything?
My players will be the crew of a trade pioneer/exploration ship and it will be expected to be outside the Confederation (the known civilized world) for up to a year at a time.
I figure that by having the T5 120 day life support multiplied by the max number of inhabitants (divided by ten) multiplied by four it should last an Imperial Year (IMTU this is 360 days). The food supply is a highly concentrated goop that the "food processor" turns into something almost as good as real food. Air is easy to replenish at a planet with breathable air or by getting it from water or ice. Fuel for this ship is radioactives and they have a small processing plant if they can find ore.
They have a skilled doctor and lots of supplies. Yes, if they have to take on food at a primitive planet it will take more space to store than the concentrated goop and hopefully somebody will know how to cook.
As for shampoo, I'm assuming sonic showers like in the pulp SF I used to read. Hopefully they'll find toilet paper before they run out.
o:Am I missing anything?
find some H2O and NH3. You can find both in the outer planets moons and the Kuiper Belt. Electrolyze them.
The CO2 scrubber can be recharged with a laser and an airlock. Diminishing returns, eventually, but at least some return of capacity.
Depending upon the binding method, the flatulence filters might be flushable - I'm not enough of a chem-head to be certain.
Dust filters can be back-flushed a couple times before being totally worthless.
Linnens can be washed, sterilized, then aired out so as to not carry the cleaning chemicals where they're going to ruin the air filters. Ammonia washing, while highly toxic to do, is quite effective at killing a lot without ruining the fibers. Even on a vacc world. Enter the airlock suited, with linnens... depress, then repress with pure N2. open the ammonia tub, wash linnens inside. Vent to vacuum; the ammonia and the majority of the biologicals will vent to space. Repress, wash in water, vent to space to vacuum dry.
Keep in mind: Cleaning products have to be safe for the filter systems. Many of the filters have odd reactions to common cleaning reagents. (odd as in inimical to life.)
Why "scub" at those TL's? Just break the molecular bond.
Still have to capture it to do that.
Yes, that's what monoethanolamine is for. Capture, expel, separate. Reusable.
Nah, pest control is easy on a Starship. Exit atmo of the world/undock from the highport, suit up everyone in a Vacc Suits and evacuate the air shipwide, then land/dock again and clean up the small bodies...
I'm thinking life could get very unpleasant for the next few weeks if some of those critters die in some tight cranny you can't easily reach.
It's a flammable liquid that forms a major fire risk when in contact with iron or iron-bearing compounds, according to the MSDS - the resulting chemical when in contact with iron autoignites at 120-160°
And it's toxic at 6ppm.
monoethanolamine MSDS said:
A number of those are byproducts of animal life as we know it...
Lithium Hydroxide is merely hygroscopic and causes chemical burns, but is also a solid (and can be contained with filters, even improvised ones).
Calcium Hydroxide has the advantage of being a solid, and safer to use in zero G.
That's why it's used on US Nuc subs.
But, I'm sure that in a couple thousand years it'll be better, cheaper & easier...Hi,
Out of curiosity, is there any canon mention of issues like concerns about the propagation of non-indigenous species into new worlds.
I ask because I know in modern maritime travel there are concerns about transmitting things like "zebra mussels" in a ship's ballast water and I believe that ships are not allowed to transfer ballast water within a certain distance of shore in order to prevent anything that may be in the water that you pumped onboard at one end of your trip from being discharged at a different port.
In a Traveller like setting I wonder if there wouldn't be concerns about not just animals and stuff that you can see but also spores, bacteria, and other such types of cooties from spreading from planet to planet?
Out of curiosity, is there any canon mention of issues like concerns about the propagation of non-indigenous species into new worlds.
I ask because I know in modern maritime travel there are concerns about transmitting things like "zebra mussels" in a ship's ballast water and I believe that ships are not allowed to transfer ballast water within a certain distance of shore in order to prevent anything that may be in the water that you pumped onboard at one end of your trip from being discharged at a different port.
In a Traveller like setting I wonder if there wouldn't be concerns about not just animals and stuff that you can see but also spores, bacteria, and other such types of cooties from spreading from planet to planet?
That's why it's used on US Nuc subs.
Subs also have the ability to get fresh air just by surfacing in an emergency. There's a reason NASA's stuck with Lithium Hydroxide. It's safe and reliable, and easily handled.
So is what I mentioned. I have a relative who is in charge of the LS system on an Ohio. What is your RL experience with it?
So, how about a very generic dTon rating for "Life Support Recharge/Maintenance" supplies/spare parts? A bulk amount that would be used to the best effect if the ship sets down on a habitable world with a breathable atmo? Maybe a certain dTonnage/Occupied Stateroom? Or something like 1 Ton of LS Supplies equal X number of StateRoom Trips(2 week period)?
Any ideas or suggestions? Doesn't have to be an itemized list, just a dTon approximation.
Any ideas or suggestions? Doesn't have to be an itemized list, just a dTon approximation.
Minus food/water. Maybe 10 kg/stateroom
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
Invasive species are a very sensitive area when it comes to the Great Lakes, with the current concern being the Asian Carp. I do not believe that there is any mention anywhere in Traveller about that. You might consider starting a thread on the subject.
There is currently an individual in New Zealand that is trying to eliminate all cats from New Zealand.
Rigel Stardin
SOC-13
Sorry for spelling error, long day at work.
Ram scoops aka purifications plants for refueling, might be able to extract oxygen and other elements necessary for the life support system on long range missions.
SGU talks about looking for the necessary chemicals used to scrub the air. Later on they find a synethic material to replace it.
I also believe that a dehumitifer is need to keep down the moisture content onboard ship. This piece of equipment is mostlikely the source of the slime and mold on a starship.
There also maybe laws against 'dumping your atmosphere' at a starport. Don't know what sort of nasty germs you brought with you. Thus the charge for recharging the life support system.
Which brings about a simple question about quarentining ships? What does a starport adminstration have to do to give a ship, crew and passengers, even cargo, a clean bill of health before introducing it to the planet's biosphere?
Ram scoops aka purifications plants for refueling, might be able to extract oxygen and other elements necessary for the life support system on long range missions.
SGU talks about looking for the necessary chemicals used to scrub the air. Later on they find a synethic material to replace it.
I also believe that a dehumitifer is need to keep down the moisture content onboard ship. This piece of equipment is mostlikely the source of the slime and mold on a starship.
There also maybe laws against 'dumping your atmosphere' at a starport. Don't know what sort of nasty germs you brought with you. Thus the charge for recharging the life support system.
Which brings about a simple question about quarentining ships? What does a starport adminstration have to do to give a ship, crew and passengers, even cargo, a clean bill of health before introducing it to the planet's biosphere?
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The ability to read and compare MSDS files, and note the relative danger levels of the materials. Plus, having read NASA's evaluation and explanations for why LiOH instead of other scrubbing options for CO2. In other words, basic academic research.
Oh, and AFD training on both SCBA and SCBA rebreathers for fire service use. No hands on with the LiOH rebreathers, but it's worth noting that they were for Rescue company* use in toxic atmosphere situations without fire, but were rated as fire capable. Oh, and I learned to hate tank air. Tickles the 'stache.
Which points out that LiOH is less overall reactive, and far less reactive to common stupid human errors in chemistry... like volatiles from booze (aromatic aldehydes and keytones) and biological processes. Better targeted, but less reusable long term, and less field rechargeable, but ideal for the regime Traveller postulates - 2-4 week excursions between replenishments.
And again, the safety margin issue: subs have a safe atmosphere never more than 60 minutes away. Traveller Spacecraft, like NASA ones, don't have that safety net. Battle damage can volatilize liquids, and in zero G (a common enough risk due to potential plant failure in Traveller, both from damage and incompetence), liquid containment is an issue. Also note that, from the MSDS, monoethanolamine has an "amoniac smell" - which means it does volatilize at room temp. LiOH doesn't, tho it can be reduced to dust by vibration... but that dust is easier contained than volatized liquids.
Space flight has a need to stay on the safe side. I'm relatively certain there is likely a better way to package LiOH than NASA uses, but what NASA uses is good enough. It's tried and tested, resilient and inexpensive. I'm also certain some will use more dangerous methods of CO2 capture... and for them, well, that's what mishap rolls are for... :devil:
* note that, in AFD, back then, at least, "company" meant any firefighting apparatus. Which, at the time, was one of several types of fire company - Engine Company, Squad Company, Tank Company, Rescue Company, Truck Company. The "non-companies" were Medic Unit, BC unit, Inspector Unit, and chaplain unit (with only a medic unit being more than one man in nominal use). Being an Explorer and in JROTC, I've always found it ironic hearing "Squad Company Number 3"... AFD no longer has Squad companies AFAICT.
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