Alternatives to MGT burstfire/autofire

[Klaus]

There's been some dissatisfaction expressed over MGT's autofire rules. Full auto seems a little puny compared to the amount of ammo expended, and there is also somewhat of a lack of differentiation between automatic weapons.

Option 1:

A sort of return to the original autofire mechanic from the playtest when T/E was still in vogue.

Auto Values of weapons: range from 3 to 6, so Pistol 3, Assualt Rifle 4, ACR 6 etc

Burstfire: as MGT RAW, the Auto value is added to damage.

Full-auto: roll the number of dice indicated, choose the highest as the common die, then match it with the others one by one. So Auto 3 gives 2 attacks, Auto 6 gives 5. No more than a +1 bonus can be obtained from skill and Dex, and recoil goes up by a factor of 1. 3 times the Auto value in rounds fired.

Rationale: this allows auto numbers in odd as well as even, so 3, 4, 5, 6, allowing more differentiation between weapons, while increasing the chance of hitting with full auto, the more chance the more rounds fired.




Option 2: (on reflection I prefer this one, so I'll probably use this as my house rule.)

Auto Values: vary from +1 to +3 (or even higher for a putative LMG)

So an Auto-Pistol is at +1 (the 'double tap' in burstfire mode), Auto-Rifle and Assault Rifle at +2, and the ACR a variable +1 to +3, depending on the user setting (can be changed as a free action)

Burstfire: the value acts as a bonus to hit (this will also potentially increase damage too as Effect is added), with twice the rounds fired as the auto value. This bonus goes down by 1 at Medium range, and 2 at long, 3 at very long, etc.

Full-Auto: the auto value represents the number of extra attacks to be made (so +1 is 2 attacks), at 6 x auto in rounds fired. The same caveats apply as in option 1 (limited skill/stat bonus and increased recoil).

Rationale: in MGT RAW burstfire only increases damage, but in RL, isn't a fixed burstfire mode to increase the chance of hitting? With a hit bonus damage is increased anyway. In full-auto there is still a higher number of opportunities to hit. And this bonus could factor into a subsequent suppressive fire rule.

Option 1 is closer to the rules as written, and impacts less on any future rules additions / options that might come out in Mercenary. Option 2 is perhaps a better model of burstfire, but changes the set up that means any Mercenary options will also have to be houseruled. Though I believe both improve somewhat on the original mechanic.

Anyone got any comments?

 

[Jamus]

There's been some dissatisfaction expressed over MGT's autofire rules. Full auto seems a little puny compared to the amount of ammo expended, and there is also somewhat of a lack of differentiation between automatic weapons.

thousands of rounds are expended in combat to produce a single casualty so I do not have an issue with ammo usage.

Full-auto: roll the number of dice indicated, choose the highest as the common die, then match it with the others one by one. So Auto 3 gives 2 attacks, Auto 6 gives 5. No more than a +1 bonus can be obtained from skill and Dex, and recoil goes up by a factor of 1. 3 times the Auto value in rounds fired.

I dont really see a reason for the odd numbered auto firing stat. evens work and it is best to keep things sweet and simple.

Rationale: this allows auto numbers in odd as well as even, so 3, 4, 5, 6, allowing more differentiation between weapons, while increasing the chance of hitting with full auto, the more chance the more rounds fired.

It has been found that auto fire actually decreases accuracy and that is why many modern assault rifles have replaced auto fire with burst fire mode or both.

Option 1 is closer to the rules as written, and impacts less on any future rules additions / options that might come out in Mercenary. Option 2 is perhaps a better model of burstfire, but changes the set up that means any Mercenary options will also have to be houseruled. Though I believe both improve somewhat on the original mechanic.

Anyone got any comments?

 

[Klaus]

thousands of rounds are expended in combat to produce a single casualty so I do not have an issue with ammo usage.

Well more or less agreed, but in terms of gameplay players are not going to want to empty their mags just to get an extra attack, which kinda makes the autofire as written somewhat redundant. Basically this just adds another attack for the same amount of rounds fired - just makes it a bit tastier players - and the chance of hitting more than 2 (or 3) opponents in one full burst.

I dont really see a reason for the odd numbered auto firing stat. evens work and it is best to keep things sweet and simple.

This is hardly any more or less complicated to the RAW though, surely?

It has been found that auto fire actually decreases accuracy and that is why many modern assault rifles have replaced auto fire with burst fire mode or both.

I didn't say an increase in accuracy, I said an increased opportunity to hit. Maybe there should be an increase in recoil for every shot fired (attempted).

 

[tbeard1999]

There's been some dissatisfaction expressed over MGT's autofire rules. ...Anyone got any comments?

Given the that MGT uses the "armor absorbtion" model, it seems to me that the most reasonable way to model autofire is to allow multiple hits and to resolve each hit.

Since MGT already has a discrete "to hit" roll, there are several ways that I can see to accomplish this:

1. Allow multiple "to hit" rolls based on the number of bullets fired. I.e., 2 rolls for a 4-9 shots, 3 rolls for 10-20, etc., or somesuch. I don't like this approach because it's mechanically clumsy and slows the game down (because it's a 2d6 roll, it's very hard to roll several "to hit" rolls at the same time). This is especially true if you retain the MGT damage mechanic, which shoehorns Effect into the damage calculation.

2. Give a "to hit" bonus for autofire, then roll a separate die to determine the total number of hits. I.e., +2 for autofire. If you hit, roll 1d6-2 for number of additional hits (this is for a burst; more bullets fired should adjust the roll). Advantages are that this is fast and you can more easily accomodate the Effect, since there's only one to hit roll. Disadvantage is that skill or favorable conditions do not increase the number of hits actually scored. (This is arguably accurate in the case of skills, but it disadvantages highly skilled PCs).

3. Use the Striker method of giving a separate "to hit" bonus for autofire, then score an extra hit for every 2 points the modified roll exceeds 8. I'd make the autofire bonus dependent on total bullets fired. This is the mechanic that I currently favor (see my post at http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=10755 for details). It allows multiple hits with only one "to hit" roll and skill definitely improves autofire. (Again, this is arguable, as most highly trained troops prefer semi-auto fire. However, there's an easy fix; don't allow skill bonuses for autofire.)

4. A version of #3 especially for use with MGT, which is consistent with the Effect mechanic. Have a "to hit" bonus for autofire. The Effect is the number of hits scored (limited to the number of bullets actually fired). If I used this rule, I'd increase all weapon damage by 1 and eliminate Effect from the damage calculation. I might also disallow weapon skill bonuses. The autofire to hit bonus would be something like this:

+0 for 3 or fewer bullets fired
+1 for 4-9 bullets fired
+2 for 10-19 bullets fired
+3 for 20-29 bullets fired
+4 for 30-49 bullets fired
+5 for 50-99 bullets fired
+6 for 100-199 bullets fired
Etc.

I'd also give heavy automatic weapons the ability to establish fire lanes. Again, see my rules for how I approach that. Note that this is just an example; I have not analysed the probability spreads to see how these bonuses behave.

 

[Jamus]

Given the that MGT uses the "armor absorbtion" model, it seems to me that the most reasonable way to model autofire is to allow multiple hits and to resolve each hit.

Could just auto fire on a target roll the six dice, group them in pairs and count each pair that beats the target number as an individual hit dealing its own damage?

 

[tbeard1999]

Could just auto fire on a target roll the six dice, group them in pairs and count each pair that beats the target number as an individual hit dealing its own damage?

Sure, but you're still somewhat limited. With normal sized dice, you can roll around 8 dice at a time. That's only 4 possible hits (so it would work for a burst, bit might fall short when firing an entire clip). And it's fussy, as players fiddle with grouping dice.

I prefer methods 2-4 myself.

 

[aramis]

My preference for autofire would be variations of (1)...

(1a) 1+1 per round dice, , one is shared, and the rest are each added to that one separately to come up with the to-hit totals, skill effect limited. (Not optimal)

eg: 5rd autofire: 6d= 1,2,3,4,5,6 on the dice, results 11,10,9,8,7

(1b) As 1a, but skill uncapped, and lowest die must be shared. Skill uncapped.
eg: 5rd autofire: 6d= 1,2,3,4,5,6 on the dice, results 7,6,5,4,3

(1c) 2d per round, but pairing dice highest 2, next highest 2, etc. (I'd uncap skill for this one)
eg: 3rd burst: 6d: 1,2,3,4,5,6 on the dice, results 11,7,3

 

[Jamus]

All seem workable though I still favor the vanilla system for no other reason than that it is simple and in the book. That said how would you factor in recoil?

I seem to remember a system where you rolled x amount of attacks but deducted an ever greater recoil penalty from those attacks. something like -0 -2 -4 -6 or some such. as far as burst fire modes go I would just rule a burst as improving damage of a single attack to keep things simple.