An interesting display of how the asteroid belt works

[Enoki]

I found this interesting, if a little dizzying to look at...

 

[atpollard]

Seriously cool, but it shatters the way solar systems are represented. Most of the asteroids are in the same orbit as Jupiter on that simulation, not in an orbit between the orbit of Mars and Jupiter. Sure there are some, but not most.

Can anyone verify that this is accurate?
Is this really how it works?

 

[Hovtej]

Per Wiki, there are 0.7 to 1.7 million main belt asteroids larger than 1 km, and about 1 million Trojan (Jupiter orbit) asteroids about equally divided between leading (Greek) and trailing (Trojan) groups. The Trojans (both groups) are more concentrated.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:InnerSolarSystem-en.png

 

[atpollard]

Thanks.

So the simulation is accurate for the movement but greatly thinned out the main belt so you could see it easier.

 

[flykiller]

why do the leading and trailing groups not coalesce? after all it's been five billion years or so, why are the still separate?

 

[Vargas]

why do the leading and trailing groups not coalesce? after all it's been five billion years or so, why are the still separate?

Because that's the way Lagrange Points work?

 

[Whipsnade]

why do the leading and trailing groups not coalesce? after all it's been five billion years or so, why are the still separate?

The main reason is that it hasn't been five billion years.

While our system has been around for five billion or so, the orbits have not been the same for five billion years and it's (mostly) Jupiter's fault.

Jupiter is the 363.63kg gorilla of the Sol System. It's so big that, unlike every other planet, it's barycenter with Sol is outside of Sol. The inner planets are where they are because Jupiter "herded" them there and it's the same with the outer planets.

Jupiter itself has wandered a fair bit too. For a period after Jupiter's rapid growth, Saturn and Jupiter "enjoyed" a 2:1 resonance that "pushed" Saturn further out and, if I understand correctly, caused Neptune and Uranus to "swap" orbits. Jupiter slipped inward at the same time "pushing" the inner planets along.

That 2:1 resonance and the several weak resonances Jupiter and Saturn still have today keep the Trojan/Lagrange bodies "stirred" up so there's no chance of them coalescing. (Some astronomers believe a Jupiter-Saturn-Mercury resonance will eventually "tug" Mercury's orbit into one so elliptical that it will cross Earth's orbit.)

 

[flykiller]

thanks.

 

[Lycanorukke]

A paper on it is here.

Essentially the resonance between Jupiter/Saturn has points of instability. 1j:2s resonance is the point of most instability. Currently it is a bit less than 1j:2.5s. As the J/S resonant orbit slowly changes, the entire groups of Trojans/Greek can be 'purged' as the LaGrange point become unstable. In their simulation a 1:2.05 ratio caused all the Trojans to escape.

As the resonance continues to increase it stabilizes again and a new population of 'free' asteroids can take up residence. So the idea is the Trojans there now, are not the Trojans that were there then.

 

[ShapeShifter]

That's pretty different than the way that it is conventionally depicted! o:
I never knew that so many asteroids congregated in the Lagrange points. The other, darker-coloured ones seem to make a rough triangle, too.

 

[flykiller]

so many asteroids

actually it seems to be only the major ones.

 

[flg]

There's some actual explanation of a similar animation here:
http://www.solexorb.it/Animated/Rotframe.html

The Trojans co-orbit with Jupiter at the L4 and L5 lagrange points. The Hilda asteroids are the ones in the triangular pattern and are in a 3:2 resonance with Jupiter (their orbits aren't actually triangular of course, they're elliptical). More explanation is here: https://plus.google.com/117663015413546257905/posts/XecfeBK9QER

 

[aramis]

It's important to remember that, as dense as it is, you would usually be unable to see one from its nearest neighbor without at least high power binoculars.

 

[whartung]

It's important to remember that, as dense as it is, you would usually be unable to see one from its nearest neighbor without at least high power binoculars.

You…you mean that the scene in Empire isn't accurate?

 

[atpollard]

You…you mean that the scene in Empire isn't accurate?

Of course it is.
Long Ago, In A Galaxy Far, Far Away ... asteroids were much closer than they are now.

Remember, the universe is expanding. :rofl:

 

[SanDragon]

And the odds are irrelevant when you go Solo...

 

[ShapeShifter]

There's some actual explanation of a similar animation here:
http://www.solexorb.it/Animated/Rotframe.html

The Trojans co-orbit with Jupiter at the L4 and L5 lagrange points. The Hilda asteroids are the ones in the triangular pattern and are in a 3:2 resonance with Jupiter (their orbits aren't actually triangular of course, they're elliptical). More explanation is here: https://plus.google.com/117663015413546257905/posts/XecfeBK9QER

Very cool infos! Thanks!

"My God...It's full of asteroids!!!"

So many gas giants are being discovered in distant star systems that it will be interesting to see if the extra-solar planetary systems with asteroid belts also have these characteristics.

 

[agorski]

In the Jovian Chronicles RPG, the Jovian Confederation consists of habitations in 3 locations. Near Jupiter and at the 2 Lagrange points. Interesting to see that in action in the animation.