An "Old" new start. part 2

[Cryton]

Imperial Culture

There is no singular culture that can be said to be the culture of the 3I.

As 3I presence in the area of charted space controlled by the 3I is limited to Starports, Imperial Nobles Fiefs, Imperial Naval and Scout Bases, and Imperial Research Stations, aside from Military culture, there is little or no Imperial culture off of Capital.

The various member worlds all have their own cultures, and their cultural influences can be experienced whenever you are within an area of the 3I within which they trade.

Most of the cultures of the member worlds in the 3I are derivative of either Valani culture, descended from one of the Nation States of old Earth, or a fusion of one or more of those influences.

But none of them, aside from Capital, can be said to be "Imperial" culture, and Capital only by presence of the Emperor.

 

[aramis]

If there's a singular imperial culture, the Emperor ain't part of it, man. It's got to be the most monolithic block of people in the 3I, and that means needing a singular identity, high mobility, common enforced cultural norms, and high esprit de corps...

... it has to be the Imperial Navy.

(Makes me think International Fleet of the Enderverse or the Codominion Navy of the Falconberg's Legion series.)

 

[Greylond]

I would argue that there is a "Traveller" culture(maybe a Sub-Culture) at least made up of those who spend their lives plying the space lanes. For a RL example, there is definitely a sub-culture populated by those in the military. Shared experiences, a common dialect, etc.

Think about it, at least, if not more than, 50 percent of a Traveller's time is spent actually travelling and cooped up in a ship. Most of your career travelling in the 3I is spent away from home and a large percentage of it outside of a ship is spent in a Starport somewhere. I imagine that many Starports across the 3I become very generic looking and there are similarities from place to place...

 

[aramis]

I would argue that there is a "Traveller" culture(maybe a Sub-Culture) at least made up of those who spend their lives plying the space lanes. For a RL example, there is definitely a sub-culture populated by those in the military. Shared experiences, a common dialect, etc.

The Army sure ain't a singular culture anymore. The Marine Corps, yes, well, mostly. The Airforce has Pilots, 1st termers, and everyone else, and probably, divisions within that. The Army has several distinct cultures within it. The Navy has shore-bores, swabs, and squids... each with distinct cultural elements. Heck, until recently, the squids had distinct duty uniforms from the swabs and shore-bores.

 

[Greylond]

Heck, until recently, the squids had distinct duty uniforms from the swabs and shore-bores.

Really? not '85-'91...

Anyway, my point is that I would think that you could consider Starports and Traveller Crews to be a specific Culture or Sub-Culture. Possibly with detail differences from Sector to Sector...

 

[Cryton]

Really? not '85-'91...

Anyway, my point is that I would think that you could consider Starports and Traveller Crews to be a specific Culture or Sub-Culture. Possibly with detail differences from Sector to Sector...

Imperial starports IMTU are all Imperial maintained and run, so I will agree, hanging out in them long enough and you will become more "Imperial". However, for the majority of Travellers and non military starship crews, your culture will still be defined by the world of your origin.

 

[McPerth]

As I see 3I, its main binding factor is, off courss, IN, being the main political weapon it has to hold it toguether. As such I see it as rotating stations for squadrons among different Fleets, and even sectors and domains in orther for individual units not to be more loyal to their Fleet, sector, domain, etc. than to the Imperium at large.

One side effect (also profitable for the Imperium) that this policy has is to spread some joint cultural traits (along with biases) and make the Imerium at large more cosmopolitan, creating also cultural ties among Imperial citizenry.

This cultural impact is most felt when its members muster out and return home, carring with them the learned cultural traits.

NOTE: all what I said in this post, also applies to the Marines and Scouts, that can be seen for this matter ass IN semi-independent branches (please, take no offense if you cam from Marine background ), so all said about IN applies also to them and, to little less estent, to the Imperial Army, if it exists (not wanting to restart that dicussion).

 

[mike wightman]

IMPTU I reasoned that I'd need more than just Capital to be ruled directly by the Imperium.

The Imperial core sub-sectors should provide enough Imperial high population, high TL worlds to allow the Imperium to construct the fleets of the IN in the first place.

Beyond this core sector I have at least one directly ruled high tech high pop world per sub sector, sometimes two or three.

Once you get to the frontier sectors such as the Spinward Marches government autonomy is the norm, with Imperial presence provided by the IN bases.

 

[Cryton]

IMPTU I reasoned that I'd need more than just Capital to be ruled directly by the Imperium.

The Imperial core sub-sectors should provide enough Imperial high population, high TL worlds to allow the Imperium to construct the fleets of the IN in the first place.

Beyond this core sector I have at least one directly ruled high tech high pop world per sub sector, sometimes two or three.

Once you get to the frontier sectors such as the Spinward Marches government autonomy is the norm, with Imperial presence provided by the IN bases.

I agree. After giving what you have said some thought, I came up with the following.

Government Code 6

IMTU any world with a Gov Code of 6, that is not listed as owned by another world, is "owned" by the 3I. For higher population worlds this may be transitional, as a government is created by the inhabitants after having had their old government removed by the 3I for violations of 3I law, and on others it shows worlds that are possessions of the 3I and used for one purpose or another (resource worlds, prison planets, Noble reserve worlds, ect.) and will be handled on a case by case basis as needed for game play.

 

[Cryton]

IMPTU I reasoned that I'd need more than just Capital to be ruled directly by the Imperium.

The Imperial core sub-sectors should provide enough Imperial high population, high TL worlds to allow the Imperium to construct the fleets of the IN in the first place.

Beyond this core sector I have at least one directly ruled high tech high pop world per sub sector, sometimes two or three.

Once you get to the frontier sectors such as the Spinward Marches government autonomy is the norm, with Imperial presence provided by the IN bases.

Had to add a bit more: As I stated earlier in the thread, IMTU all the listed starports are 3I owned and operated, and the shipyards are used by the 3I to build any ships they need.

 

[Cryton]

On Megacorperations

Megacorps are those space faring corporations that have grown large enough to encompass more than a single world and its colonies/posessions. This category encompass those corporations that serve a sub sector, those that serve a sector, those that serve a domain, and those few Imperium Wide corporations.

The heads of these corporations are more often than not, Imperial nobles whose titles are not tied to any single world, but rather to the CEO position of the corporation in question, though exceptions often do exist. Their function is the same as that of a Noble assigned to represent the 3I to a planet, only in this case, the representation is to a corporation that can have as much influence as, if not more than, any single planet.

The Nobles title that the CEO possesses depends on the size of the corporation in question. Those with Sub-sector wide interests are Marquis. Those with Sector sized interests are Counts. Those with Domain or larger interests are Dukes. All are considered to be High Nobles, with all the powers and responsibilities inherent to those lofty positions. These duties are in addition to any they may also have as a CEO.

It should be noted that Sub Sector and larger corporations are pretty vicious and often times very, very cutthroat when it comes to competition. Industrial espionage and corporate wars can and do occur, and the Third Imperium tolerates them, so long as they abide by the same rules as planetary governments abide by.

Mercenary Companies

As I pointed out in the first of my "Old new start" threads (the link is in my first post of this thread), my Third Imperium is a mostly hands off place, with the 3I interfering with planetary problems only when it must.

This makes for a Third Imperium in which mercenary units can exist, make a name for themselves, and thrive in. It also makes the 3I a place where Mercs are commonplace as well.

Mercenary units often find work with both Planetary Governments, the various Mega Corporations, and even occasionally the 3I itself, doing everything from garrison duty, putting down insurrections, destroying strategic targets, defending corporate interests, and occasional helping rebels change the form of government on a world. It should be noted that Merc units must still abide by the few rules imposed by the 3I, or the 3I will come down on them just as hard as they do on Governments or Corporations that break the rules.

 

[Cryton]

Free Traders

Filling the gap below the Mega Corporations are the Free Traders. Independent ship Captains who ply the spacelanes making a living through trade and speculation.

Normally, single ships unattached to a Sub Sector or larger corporation, are not seen as any form of threat to the larger corporations, and thus are left to do their thing. They just don't make a big enough dent in corporate profit for the larger corporations to care. When a Free Trader is doing exceptionally well, he can and often will be approached by larger corporations to do "runs", carrying cargo for them on a contractual basis.

Its during these times that things often get dicey, as the Free Trader may find himself carrying cargo to dangerous ports, or even involved in a Trade War between two competing Corporations, and that he has become a legitimate target for the other corporation. Mostly however, its a single run or two acting as an extra ship, and nothing more.

In rare cases, a successful Free Trader is seen by a larger Corporation as a rival. In these cases, most Free Traders head to safer space outside the larger Corporation operations area. Those that don't, tend to be mistaken for pirates by the Corporations ships, or involved in a trade war against a much larger foe.

In any case, the life of a Free Trader is never dull.

 

[SpaceBadger]

Your "old new" setting sounds like a place I would enjoy either playing or GMing. I'm subscribing this thread for future reference, whenever I someday get back to a regular Traveller campaign. Would make an interesting change from my much more civilized Spinward Marches campaign, which was based on GT books.

 

[Cryton]

Your "old new" setting sounds like a place I would enjoy either playing or GMing. I'm subscribing this thread for future reference, whenever I someday get back to a regular Traveller campaign. Would make an interesting change from my much more civilized Spinward Marches campaign, which was based on GT books.

Glad you like it.

 

[Timerover51]

More decisions made for my "Proto-Traveller" universe.

Small Ship Universe

My Traveller Universe is a small ship universe, with the cap on starship tonnage set at 5,000 DTons for now. This makes the Leviathan class worthy of its name, and the Kinunir a cruiser worthy of respect.

I'm choosing this because I feel it fits the "feel" of a "proto" Traveller game better than a Large Ship Universe, I feel that a small ship universe is by far more realistic, and it will also be far easier to design ships for.

Starport Populations

As I mentioned in my previous post, Starport and Base personnel are not counted towards the planets population. This is due to it being considered a duty station, and that the personnel are counted as population for the world of their birth or the world of permanent residence.

I have set the personnel numbers for the various starport classes as follows:

Class A: 1000-2000 personnel, plus an additional 500-1000 if an orbital facility is present. Protection is provided by a Battalion of Imperial Marines

Class B: 300-1000 personnel, plus an additional 100-500 if an orbital facility is present. Protection is provided by a company of 175-200 Imperial Marines.

Class C: 100-200 personnel. The Marine Garrison is usually a Platoon of 35-40 Imperial Marines.

Class D: 20-30 personnel, with a garrison of 11 Imperial Marines.

Class E: This is a bare patch of land with a Imperial Beacon marking it. Any personnel here will be staff working directly for the Imperial Noble assigned to the world.

Class X: There is no Imperial starport or presence on the world.

It should be noted, that all starports of Class D or better will have at least one member of the Imperial Navy stationed at the starport, who will act as Liaison for the Imperial Navy and recruiter for the world. Likewise there will be at least one Scout, who runs the "post office".

Outside of the 3I, starport TL will match that of the world they are on, though they will have similar populations and security detachments. In the larger polities, things will be set up in a similar fashion to the Imperial model

Looking at your population numbers, I would boost them a bit to allow for ship maintenance personnel, and by quite a bit if you have a shipyard there. Also, for every worker, you probably are going to have between 1 to 3 additional persons present in the form of spouses and dependents, or are you including them in your population?

As for military personnel assigned to the starport, I would put Imperial Army on the ground and save the Imperial Marines for the orbital facility.

Military Base Populations

As for the populations of an Imperial Navy base, Depot, Imperial Scout Base or Way Station, I have idea of what to place their populations at. Anyone have suggestions?

For Imperial Navy base populations, I would think somewhere around 10,000 or so assigned personnel, as you are going to have a lot of maintenance and support types of people there, and then maybe increase that by a factor of 1 or 3 to allow for the military personnel dependents.

An Imperial Depot is going to have fewer personnel manning it, so maybe figure an assigned military population of 1,000 or so for the Depot, and boost them as above for dependents. However, I would include as a separate force at least a battalion of ground troops and some Naval vessels as well, as a Depot would make a very attractive target for raiders.

For a Scout Base, I would think somewhere around 3,000 to 5,000 assigned personnel, as you have all of the Scout maintenance to deal with, and figure that would include some security personnel. Then increase as needed to reflect dependents.

I would think that a Way Station would have somewhere around 100 assigned personnel, plus maybe a platoon of security, unless it is somewhat isolated on an important Jump route. In that case, I would put it on par with a Scout Base.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

SpaceBadger - love the new icon!

Also, for every worker, you probably are going to have between 1 to 3 additional persons present in the form of spouses and dependents, or are you including them in your population?

Not disagreeing with you, but expressing a tangential thought. What sort of society would not have dependents on or nearby the base? A couple of possibilities: either certain personnel aren't allowed to have a family, or the assignment (perhaps only some, maybe all) is a rotation which doesn't allow for bringing family along.

OK, sorry, Cryton. You can have the thread back now.

 

[Cryton]

Thank you very much for the reply Timerover51. I like the numbers you came up with!

Looking at your population numbers, I would boost them a bit to allow for ship maintenance personnel, and by quite a bit if you have a shipyard there. Also, for every worker, you probably are going to have between 1 to 3 additional persons present in the form of spouses and dependents, or are you including them in your population?

I had forgotten about dependents. Kinda sad as I am former military. I am thinking a 0 - 3 boost for dependents as not everyone will be married. And no, starport personnel and their dependants are not counted toward the planets population, but rather towards their homeworlds population, as it is a "duty" assignment for the Imperial Bureaucracy.

As for military personnel assigned to the starport, I would put Imperial Army on the ground and save the Imperial Marines for the orbital facility.

Good point, however, I do not use the Imperial Army IMTU, so the Marines do duty on both ground and orbital. Starport duty is one of their "garrison" assignments.

For Imperial Navy base populations, I would think somewhere around 10,000 or so assigned personnel, as you are going to have a lot of maintenance and support types of people there, and then maybe increase that by a factor of 1 or 3 to allow for the military personnel dependents.

An Imperial Depot is going to have fewer personnel manning it, so maybe figure an assigned military population of 1,000 or so for the Depot, and boost them as above for dependents. However, I would include as a separate force at least a battalion of ground troops and some Naval vessels as well, as a Depot would make a very attractive target for raiders.

For a Scout Base, I would think somewhere around 3,000 to 5,000 assigned personnel, as you have all of the Scout maintenance to deal with, and figure that would include some security personnel. Then increase as needed to reflect dependents.

I would think that a Way Station would have somewhere around 100 assigned personnel, plus maybe a platoon of security, unless it is somewhat isolated on an important Jump route. In that case, I would put it on par with a Scout Base.

Good calls on the base populations for the Naval base and Scout bases. Depots however are defined as:

A Naval Depot (code D) is a large Navy Base used to support large-scale Naval activities. There should be no more than one naval depot per sector.

In addition to that, IMTU the Depots are the Major training bases for the sectors Imperial Navy and Marines. Any clues as to how much higher to push their population with those peramiters?

As for Scout Way Stations, they are defined as :

Scout Way Stations (code W) may be found at selected worlds along xBoat communication routes, and are never co-located with naval depots. These bases serve as points for veterans to renew acquaintances, to find potential patrons, and to scrounge or buy surplus equipment of use to them.

Also, IMTU they are the major training bases for the IISS. So, any guesses?

Thanks for the input!

~Rich

 

[Cryton]

Starport Populations(adjusted)

As I mentioned in my previous post, Starport and Base personnel are not counted towards the planets population. This is due to it being considered a duty station, and that the personnel are counted as population for the world of their birth or the world of permanent residence. The numbers includes the dependents of the starports personnel.

I have re-set the personnel numbers for the various starport classes as follows:

Class A: 2000-5000 personnel, plus an additional 500-1000 if an orbital facility is present. Total populatin numbers depend on the level of automation used in the shipyards. Protection is provided by a Battalion of Imperial Marines

Class B: 1000-3000 personnel, plus an additional 100-500 if an orbital facility is present. Total population numbers depend on the level of automation used in the shipyards. Protection is provided by a company of 175-200 Imperial Marines.

Class C: 200-400 personnel. The Marine Garrison is usually a Platoon of 35-40 Imperial Marines.

Class D: 20-30 personnel, with a garrison of 11 Imperial Marines.

Class E: This is a bare patch of land with a Imperial Beacon marking it. Any personnel here will be staff working directly for the Imperial Noble assigned to the world.

Class X: There is no Imperial starport or presence on the world.

It should be noted, that all starports of Class D or better will have at least one member of the Imperial Navy stationed at the starport, who will act as Liaison for the Imperial Navy and recruiter for the world. Likewise there will be at least one Scout, who runs the "post office".

Outside of the 3I and at planetary owned secondary starports, starport TL will match that of the world they are on, and they will have smaller populations and similar security detachments. In the larger polities, things will be set up in a similar fashion to the Imperial model.

 

[Cryton]

SpaceBadger - love the new icon!



Not disagreeing with you, but expressing a tangential thought. What sort of society would not have dependents on or nearby the base? A couple of possibilities: either certain personnel aren't allowed to have a family, or the assignment (perhaps only some, maybe all) is a rotation which doesn't allow for bringing family along.

OK, sorry, Cryton. You can have the thread back now.

Thanks Fritz! The input is appreciated!

 

[SpaceBadger]

In addition to that, IMTU the Depots are the Major training bases for the sectors Imperial Navy and Marines. Any clues as to how much higher to push their population with those peramiters?

In the more "civilized" OTU the Depots are said to be system-wide facilities w warehouses, training centers, "The Academy" (one per sector), shipyards, etc. Figure it at equivalent to three or four Naval Bases, plus whatever you think appropriate for Marine garrison and Navy ships on duty to defend the Depot system.

SpaceBadger - love the new icon!

Thanks. This is the race image that I made for my custom race in Space Empires IV: The Badgers.