Good numbers! Thank you!.
Nice! you might want to post them as a "Contact!" in the Contact! section of the board!
An "Old" new start. part 2
- Thread starter Cryton
- Start date
Good numbers! Thank you!.
Nice! you might want to post them as a "Contact!" in the Contact! section of the board!
But I'm reliably informed that badgers have armies rather than navies. How can you have a space empire without a navy?
Hans
3rd Imperial Bases
The 3I maintains Six types of bases IMTU. For their definitions, I use the Traveller wikkia information as a starting point, and add the following to each type. As with starports, the population of the various base types is not counted toward the population of the worlds they are associated with. They are considered to be "duty stations" and their populations counted towards the worlds populations that are listed as the individuals homeworld of record.
Navy Bases (Code N) ~10 000 population including military dependents. Navy Bases are universally maintained at TL 12, or the TL of the host world, whichever is higher.
Naval Depots (Code D) 20 000 to 30 000 population including military dependents. Depots also serve as the primary training facility for all Naval and Marine personnel for the Sector with which its associated. Navy Depots are universally maintained at TL 15. Worlds associated with a Depot are in addition to the Depots personnel and facilities and are considered under military rule.
Scout Bases (Code S) ~5 000 personnel including dependents. Scout bases are maintained at TL 12 or the TL of the host world, whichever is higher.
Way Stations (Code W) ~ 10 000 personnel including dependents. In addition to the listed functions, Way Stations also serve as primary training facilities for all IISS personnel. Scout Way stations are maintained at TL 12 or the TL of the host world, whichever is higher.
X-Boat Stations (Code X) ~100 personnel. No dependents are allowed at X-Boat Stations. X-Boat stations are maintained at TL 12 or the TL of the host world, whichever is higher.
Imperial Research Station (Code Varies) population 10+, depending on the needs of the facility. Research stations are all TL 15+.
(Tried something new, and included the links to the Traveller Wikkia entries)
The 3I maintains Six types of bases IMTU. For their definitions, I use the Traveller wikkia information as a starting point, and add the following to each type. As with starports, the population of the various base types is not counted toward the population of the worlds they are associated with. They are considered to be "duty stations" and their populations counted towards the worlds populations that are listed as the individuals homeworld of record.
Navy Bases (Code N) ~10 000 population including military dependents. Navy Bases are universally maintained at TL 12, or the TL of the host world, whichever is higher.
Naval Depots (Code D) 20 000 to 30 000 population including military dependents. Depots also serve as the primary training facility for all Naval and Marine personnel for the Sector with which its associated. Navy Depots are universally maintained at TL 15. Worlds associated with a Depot are in addition to the Depots personnel and facilities and are considered under military rule.
Scout Bases (Code S) ~5 000 personnel including dependents. Scout bases are maintained at TL 12 or the TL of the host world, whichever is higher.
Way Stations (Code W) ~ 10 000 personnel including dependents. In addition to the listed functions, Way Stations also serve as primary training facilities for all IISS personnel. Scout Way stations are maintained at TL 12 or the TL of the host world, whichever is higher.
X-Boat Stations (Code X) ~100 personnel. No dependents are allowed at X-Boat Stations. X-Boat stations are maintained at TL 12 or the TL of the host world, whichever is higher.
Imperial Research Station (Code Varies) population 10+, depending on the needs of the facility. Research stations are all TL 15+.
(Tried something new, and included the links to the Traveller Wikkia entries)
Cryton, I really don't want to derail your fine thread any further, but...
I never really thought of detailing them as a Traveller race... I did write a few paragraphs of social and historical stuff for the one time I used them in an online game.
They were a race that I made for Space Empires IV, a 4-x computer game that I used to play a lot with my oldest son against AI opponents. His first custom race (when he was 9) was the Panda Confederation, then when he was older he created the Warfen Empire - a wolflike race somewhat like the Vargr.
My "emperor" in the game was Grand Admiral SpaceBadger, and I have just used that name and avatar in a few SF or game related forums since then.
I always play these Badgers as rather non-militaristic, peaceful creatures who created a world government without any significant wars, and now that they are in space they are primarily interested in exploration and colonization. It is only after they run into the Amon'Krie or Sergetti or some other aggressive race that starts blowing up their scout ships that the Badgers switch over to military research - and then my catchphrase is that the Badgers don't start wars, but they quickly learn how to finish them!
(It makes it more challenging not to have a lot of military tech already built up.)
So the Badgers don't start out with a Navy as such, but they almost always end up with one. I don't play with the goal of conquering the galaxy, but rather of making it peaceful - and if some other races prefer to fight, they find themselves becoming part of the Badger Republic whether they like it or not. (I also avoid glassing enemy colonies if possible, preferring to send in the Badger Space Marines to show them the light. )
I never really thought of detailing them as a Traveller race... I did write a few paragraphs of social and historical stuff for the one time I used them in an online game.
They were a race that I made for Space Empires IV, a 4-x computer game that I used to play a lot with my oldest son against AI opponents. His first custom race (when he was 9) was the Panda Confederation, then when he was older he created the Warfen Empire - a wolflike race somewhat like the Vargr.
My "emperor" in the game was Grand Admiral SpaceBadger, and I have just used that name and avatar in a few SF or game related forums since then.
I always play these Badgers as rather non-militaristic, peaceful creatures who created a world government without any significant wars, and now that they are in space they are primarily interested in exploration and colonization. It is only after they run into the Amon'Krie or Sergetti or some other aggressive race that starts blowing up their scout ships that the Badgers switch over to military research - and then my catchphrase is that the Badgers don't start wars, but they quickly learn how to finish them!
(It makes it more challenging not to have a lot of military tech already built up.)So the Badgers don't start out with a Navy as such, but they almost always end up with one. I don't play with the goal of conquering the galaxy, but rather of making it peaceful - and if some other races prefer to fight, they find themselves becoming part of the Badger Republic whether they like it or not. (I also avoid glassing enemy colonies if possible, preferring to send in the Badger Space Marines to show them the light.
)
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Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
If they are supporting a sector, and also in charge of training both Naval personnel and Marines, then you need to figure at least 20,000 of what I would call permanent party plus probably a similar number passing through training, so say about 40,0000 at any given time. Then add your dependents to the first 20,000 figure. With training, especially for Navy, you are going to have a lot of extra ships there, and as this is training, a lot of extra maintenance personnel. As a side note, this should be in a system where there is at least one Gas Giant present, so that the trainees can practice fuel skimming, and probably an asteroid belt too for practice in matching the orbit of a wide range of objects.
Again, you are talking training, which is going to boost the permanent party quite a bit, so for Scout Way Stations, somewhere between 5,000 to 10,000 maybe shading to the higher figure. Again, training means more ships and maintenance for those ships, so you will have a good-sized maintenance ability. Also, if surplus material and ships are located there, those will require personnel to keep track of the material and ships as well. I see Scouts as being much more likely to have personnel assigned to a location for an extended period of time, so you might want to think of more infrastructure such as schools for dependents, additional medical facilities, shopping, and recreation as well. Scouts are definitely going to want a system with a Gas Giant or two, an asteroid belt, and possibly a world with a less than idea atmosphere in the system for training. I would put a Scout Way Station on a planet with a breathable, untainted or readily dealt with taint atmosphere, simply from a training standpoint, as I envision them as your exploration corps as well.
Anybody know of a source for numbers of troops stationed at various places, or is that considered classified info?
I'm having another day when I can't drive to my office, and am lacking in work that I can do by laptop sitting up in bed, so was planning to put together some numbers for Cryton on our local US Army installation, Fort Leonard Wood, which is a training center for Engineers, Military Police, and CBW. I thought it would be nice to have an example of how many are here permanently as instructors etc, how many pass through at any given time doing their Basic or AIT or other training, how many support people in surrounding communities, etc - but am not finding any numbers for that first step, troops stationed on post.
Help?
Edit: What started me on this was thinking about the numbers for a Naval Depot system; I realized that Pulaski County is now up to about 50k population, although I don't know if that includes personnel stationed at FLW long-term, and I am pretty sure it does not include transients just passing through for Basic, AIT, etc. At least half (maybe more) of the civilian population is connected to FLW in one way or another, either working on post or in the Spur outside the main gate, providing bars, restaurants and motels for guys wanting to get off post when they can. Then there are all of the NCOs and officers who choose to live off post, who are a large part of the population of St. Robert. Even the local school system is directly or indirectly in support of FLW; there used to be school on post for K-8, then they attended HS in Waynesville. It just seems to me that we need to look at all of those civilian support people in addition to dependents in trying to figure out who and how many would be there in something like a large Base or Depot system.
I'm having another day when I can't drive to my office, and am lacking in work that I can do by laptop sitting up in bed, so was planning to put together some numbers for Cryton on our local US Army installation, Fort Leonard Wood, which is a training center for Engineers, Military Police, and CBW. I thought it would be nice to have an example of how many are here permanently as instructors etc, how many pass through at any given time doing their Basic or AIT or other training, how many support people in surrounding communities, etc - but am not finding any numbers for that first step, troops stationed on post.
Help?
Edit: What started me on this was thinking about the numbers for a Naval Depot system; I realized that Pulaski County is now up to about 50k population, although I don't know if that includes personnel stationed at FLW long-term, and I am pretty sure it does not include transients just passing through for Basic, AIT, etc. At least half (maybe more) of the civilian population is connected to FLW in one way or another, either working on post or in the Spur outside the main gate, providing bars, restaurants and motels for guys wanting to get off post when they can. Then there are all of the NCOs and officers who choose to live off post, who are a large part of the population of St. Robert. Even the local school system is directly or indirectly in support of FLW; there used to be school on post for K-8, then they attended HS in Waynesville. It just seems to me that we need to look at all of those civilian support people in addition to dependents in trying to figure out who and how many would be there in something like a large Base or Depot system.
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Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
The first place to check is army.mil. That should end up leading you to the post Public Affairs page. They *might* have some vague numbers you can use, depending on how hard they have to work convincing Congressmen to keep the place open. If they tell you how many units are there, of what kinds, you can reason out some estimates.
Canonical figures for a goodly number of Imperial Navy Depots exist (one for every sector with a depot that has had UWPs published). The Traveller wiki has links to seven of them (Though unfortunately the multiplier is not included in the standard world template).
Population level:
Antares: 5
Corridor: 3 (?!?)
Core: 4 (?)
Daibei: 5
Deneb: 6
Massilia: 7
Solomani Rim: 6
The various descriptions are either missing or not... all that consistent. In at least one case (the Solomani Rim depot) the entire population is explicitly composed entirely of navy personnel, which means they are all transients.
Incidentally, unless I'm mistaken (admittedly a distinct possibility) Imperial naval depots are not entirely what 21st Century military people would expect a depot to be. There are strong R&D and shipbuilding components.
Hans
Population level:
Antares: 5
Corridor: 3 (?!?)
Core: 4 (?)
Daibei: 5
Deneb: 6
Massilia: 7
Solomani Rim: 6
The various descriptions are either missing or not... all that consistent. In at least one case (the Solomani Rim depot) the entire population is explicitly composed entirely of navy personnel, which means they are all transients.
Incidentally, unless I'm mistaken (admittedly a distinct possibility) Imperial naval depots are not entirely what 21st Century military people would expect a depot to be. There are strong R&D and shipbuilding components.
Hans
Navy Depots. Final
After reviewing what is in the Depot definition, as well as taking in consideration of what you guys have brought up, I am going to use the non-cannon advice at the bottom of the Depot page, and institute the following change to all depot UWPs.
UWP Depot(any) Axxx568-F D Mr (O:3I Navy) - 1xx Im XxX
The xxx are the Size, Atmos, and Hydro from the original UWP. Extended UWPs will be derived from the adjusted UWPs and the original system and stellar data if it is available.
The Corridor Depot will keep its listed TL G as the only exception.
Populations are around the 100k range and includes any dependents. The Depots population is technically 0, as its a duty station, and the Depots population is counted toward the homeworlds of record of its inhabitants. I'm using the 5 for ease of reference for myself.
After reviewing what is in the Depot definition, as well as taking in consideration of what you guys have brought up, I am going to use the non-cannon advice at the bottom of the Depot page, and institute the following change to all depot UWPs.
UWP Depot(any) Axxx568-F D Mr (O:3I Navy) - 1xx Im XxX
The xxx are the Size, Atmos, and Hydro from the original UWP. Extended UWPs will be derived from the adjusted UWPs and the original system and stellar data if it is available.
The Corridor Depot will keep its listed TL G as the only exception.
Populations are around the 100k range and includes any dependents. The Depots population is technically 0, as its a duty station, and the Depots population is counted toward the homeworlds of record of its inhabitants. I'm using the 5 for ease of reference for myself.
Vladika
SOC-14 1K
Old Navy chiefs used to tell ratings asking for shore leave to see their wife or family "If the Navy had wanted you to have a wife, they would have issued you one!" (Enlisted personnel and Junior officers used to be required to get their COs permission to marry.)
Even today many TDYS are unaccompanied tours for both junior officers and enlisted. (Both Army & Navy)
