Ancient World Sailing and Trading Conversion

[Mithras]

I'm not sure where this goes, it is related to CT, but it isn't SF at all ... and I suppose it counts as My Traveller Universe, too . Please move it if I'm cluttering up Lone Star.

A Traveller adaptation of the ancient world has been on my mind ever since I saw those Wanderer mock ups. This has been on my mind for several years, and I had chance to get all my notes together last week to write it up. The ancient world seen through the eyes of Traveller characters, they own a ship, travelling from port to port, trading and smuggling, picking up rumours, having adventures, taking jobs from shadowy patrons, dodging Roman patrol galleys...

The aim was to use as much as possible from the original rules. I didn't mention my preferred houserule, which is to ignore all armour DMs if they are positive, only using the negative DMs. Its my standard CT houserule that I've used for years.

I never had chance to write up the last chapters, on patrons, encounters and equipment lists ... but the game is playable without those just using the relevant sections in Traveller Book 3. Of course stats for Terran creatures wopuld have been nice too

http://www.geocities.com/zozergames/mercator1.pdf
__________________

 

[Jame]

You may borrow any of my items from the Traveller Fantasy RPG materials, e.g. the Commoner career, provided that you do not sell them without PROPERLY CREDITING ME.

Pardon the force on the last, but that's happened to me at least once already.

Edit: I would suggest that the dagger be altered to do 1d6+2 damage, and the sword 3d; Also, there are a few instances of separate words being put together ("thearcuballista" on p. 15 instead of "the arcuballista;" "infor-mation" on p. 14 instead of "information;" "musthavean" instead of "must have an" on p.11). For the Noble career, I would suggest that Rank 6 be called "Consul;" for the Legion career, I would suggest that Rank 6 be called Tribune (and that the legionary have the option of gaining Bow Combat skill).

 

[Mithras]

Thanks for the advice, both legal and editorial. As you have noticed my laptop has a sticky space bar ...

You may borrow any of my items from the Traveller Fantasy RPG materials, e.g. the Commoner career, provided that you do not sell them without PROPERLY CREDITING ME.

Pardon the force on the last, but that's happened to me at least once already.

Edit: I would suggest that the dagger be altered to do 1d6+2 damage, and the sword 3d; Also, there are a few instances of separate words being put together ("thearcuballista" on p. 15 instead of "the arcuballista;" "infor-mation" on p. 14 instead of "information;" "musthavean" instead of "must have an" on p.11). For the Noble career, I would suggest that Rank 6 be called "Consul;" for the Legion career, I would suggest that Rank 6 be called Tribune (and that the legionary have the option of gaining Bow Combat skill).

 

[Jame]

You are welcome. And thank you for such an interesting supplement!

 

[robject]

I wonder if we could map Book 2 designs to Mercator ship data...

Or, better, map Mercator's ships to a page of design tables.

 

[Mithras]

Hey I suppose that could be done! The designs shouldn't be thought of as set in stone though.

I'll certainly be returning to finish the project off.

My biggest problem was trying to adjudicate voyages to ports that are not on the map and that require less than a weeks travel. With all the attendant problems of trade DMs. So I opted for concentrating on the big ports.

 

[robject]

Hey I suppose that could be done! The designs shouldn't be thought of as set in stone though.

Oh really? Well in that case, I have a solution that doesn't do too much damage to your table already...

 

[BeRKA]

Just wanted to say that I think that this is a neat idea.

One question:
Will it be a realistic setting, or will it have fantasy elements (like from Odysseus) in it?

 

[Mithras]

Initially it was going to fantasy in Wanderer 'tradition' but I opted instead for gritty adventure, not quite history. eg. armed and armoured civillians are acceptable, but not in the RL Roman Empire.

 

[robject]

Think of it this way: it sets a "realistic" basis, upon which you may build a fantasy setting.

(Less problematic that way)

 

[Mithras]

Hi Jame,

I've slightly tweaked the military ranks to fit reality, the highest a common soldier could reach was centurion, no way he could get to be a tribune. For that you need to be a noble. So noble ranks/social standing is changed to reflect the cursus honorum, lifting titles a bit out of context, but fitting in nicely. Most nobles will have military command experience now.

You may borrow any of my items from the Traveller Fantasy RPG materials, e.g. the Commoner career, provided that you do not sell them without PROPERLY CREDITING ME.

Pardon the force on the last, but that's happened to me at least once already.

Edit: I would suggest that the dagger be altered to do 1d6+2 damage, and the sword 3d; Also, there are a few instances of separate words being put together ("thearcuballista" on p. 15 instead of "the arcuballista;" "infor-mation" on p. 14 instead of "information;" "musthavean" instead of "must have an" on p.11). For the Noble career, I would suggest that Rank 6 be called "Consul;" for the Legion career, I would suggest that Rank 6 be called Tribune (and that the legionary have the option of gaining Bow Combat skill).

 

[Chaos]

I like it!

I disagree with Jame on one thing, though - do not let the Legionary gain Bow Combat skill. The legions themselves were sword, shield plus one or two javelins only; all archers were auxilia.
Well, actually, the legionaries used the pilum, which is a larger, heavier javelin, the front portion of which is iron, not wood - it is supposed to get stuck in the enemy´s shield if he blocks it, with the iron part making it impossible to hack it off. I´d say give it 4d damage.
Then, introduce the sling as a weapon; slingers were pretty wide-spread as skirmishers at the time - it´s a simple, cheap weapon with (on land) ammunition lying around everywhere. Make that two slings - one for long ranges, with 2d damage, and one for short ranges for 3d or even 4d damage.
For more atmosphere, perhaps you should use Latin names for the armor? "Armor" is "lorica" in Latin; leather armor "lorica scortea", the others are "lorica hamata" (mail), "lorica squamata" (scale) and "lorica segmentata" (the classic segmented legionary armor, from the Asterix comic books for example).

 

[Jame]

I like it!

And quite justly, too. It's good.

I disagree with Jame on one thing, though

"What?!? How DARE you!" :smirk:

do not let the Legionary gain Bow Combat skill. The legions themselves were sword, shield plus one or two javelins only; all archers were auxilia.

Hmmm ... actually, that's pretty historically accurate. The bow combat thing is pretty much my own personal quirk.

One question - how would shields be handled?

 

[Mithras]

I handled shields by taking away the Traveller Book 1 parry ability (subtracting your blade skill from your opponents roll). Then I ruled that you can only use that ability if you are carrying a shield. Weapon on weapon parrying replaced by shield parrying, but the orginal weapon skill is still used as a measure of hand-to-hand combat. It saves creating a new sgield skill and cluttering up the Career tables with it.

I'm quite knowledgable about the Roman military, I've re-enacted a 4th century legionary for 5 years, and written a book about the military in that period: http://www.geocities.com/zozergames/roman.html

 

[Jame]

Hmmm ... what about ranks for "other?" And what about female characters?

 

[robject]

Been thinking about shipbuilding rules.

Probably can't "just use book 2" -- the results might require so much tweaking that in the end you've got a different system anyway.

Could adapt Book 2 and High Guard concepts though.

Use "hull volume" as "hull hit points" and map them to proper sizes.
Use the Drive Potential table as a template for sail, rowers, and barge-pole-handlers. Result is "hexes" per day.
Use the Bay Weapon table as a template for Ballista and Cannon. Use the Main Weapon table as a template for Rams and Greek Fire.

 

[robject]

Thread resurrect

So Paul, I went and checked out a gigantic book of sailing ships from the library, with hundreds of nice semi-architectural(?) scale drawings, and focused on the earlier ships. I'm still fired up about sailing ship design. Now where's my notes?

H'm, I guess this is a placeholder post then.

 

[Timerover51]

So Paul, I went and checked out a gigantic book of sailing ships from the library, with hundreds of nice semi-architectural(?) scale drawings, and focused on the earlier ships. I'm still fired up about sailing ship design. Now where's my notes?

H'm, I guess this is a placeholder post then.

Out of curiosity, which one did you check out? I have maybe a half-dozen, at least, just on sailing ships. Rand McNally did a good one on sailing ships with most of the illustrations having overhead deck shots as well.

I have been looking at a building sequence for sailing ships, and it might be doable, but totally separate and distinct from one for powered ships. The main crewing variable is how many men are needed to handle the rigging, and that changes over time and also depends on the rig. Fore and aft rigs require a lot less crew than square rigs. Some of the small colonial trading sloops both before and after the American Revolution, had maybe 5 crew or so, including the captain, to handle the ship with a single mast and simple rig. Around 1600 or so, where an English ship might require a crew of 30, a Dutch ship of comparable size might need a crew of 10.

One major factor with sailing ships is that the multi-mast sailing ships appears somewhere around 1400 or so, with some evidence going of two-masted ships back to 1200, but not that much.

 

[robject]

Out of curiosity, which one did you check out?

[...]

I have been looking at a building sequence for sailing ships, and it might be doable, but totally separate and distinct from one for powered ships. The main crewing variable is how many men are needed to handle the rigging, and that changes over time and also depends on the rig.

"The Story of Sail". It's illustrations with some descriptive text, rather than a textbook. Perfect for n00bs like me.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Story-Sail-Veres-Laszlo/dp/1557508968

I've been thinking about Paul's Mercator ships -- they do what he needs them to do -- and how I can design a capable but easy descriptive system around it. Capable, because I want to model Minoan galleys as well as some early-medieval stuff. Easy, because I have little patience for obstruction-disguised-as-detail. Also, because I'm not a wargamer. Or, maybe a "lite" wargamer on a good day.

From the earliest known craft of ancient Mesopotamia and Egypt to the final surviving sailing ships of this century, every major step in the development of the sailing ship is beautifully illustrated in this handsome large-format book that includes 1,000 highly detailed scale drawings and sixteen color plates. They are reproduced to standard scales, making comparisons both easy and meaningful.

Organized by period and theme, the entire 6,000-year history of the sailing ship is depicted. A concise but detailed text introduces each ship type and highlights the salient features of every vessel. Such a chronological review provides an unprecedented level of comparative information that will prove invaluable for maritime historians, modelers, and ship enthusiasts everywhere. This work is the only general developmental history of sail available, so it is certain to have broad appeal.

So I'm thinking of a "Maker" style system for sailing ships. Mercator uses descriptors that are generally salvageable and descriptive enough. I can standardize them, toss in another couple of mission types and descriptor classes and that may be enough.

 

[robject]

Reverse-engineering Paul's ships into a SailMaker

First pass.

                     Pax/Lo Cargo Sailors Rowers STR Silver
                     ------ ----- ------- ------ --- ------
SS Sailship           1  5    250   12       -    5  20,000
CT Coastal Trader     0  4     50   10       -    4   6,000
MG Merchant Galley    1  8     30    4      50    4  30,000
WG War Galley         4  40    60   20     270    5  60,000

s Small              1/2 1/3  1/4   2/3    1/2   -1   1/2
m Medium             1/2 1/3  2/3   2/3    1/2   -1   2/3
g Great              x3  x5    x2    x2     x2   +1   x1.5

l Lateen Sails       AGL+1, SPD-1

The way I'd like to spin it, is to abstract away various technological innovations as stage effects, and also include some shopping list items, such as ballistas, rams, and Greek Fire.

I think lateen sails are distinct (performance-wise) from square sails, so I'd like to add that into the mix in order to trade off (for example) speed versus agility -- square sails can run before the wind faster, but lateen sails can sail closer into the wind.