Are we asking for trouble or are we asking for help?
- Thread starter DaveChase
- Start date
Not a response to any particular post here, just an addition. You have to look at it this way; the Earth itself has had life for a little over three and a half billion years ago, and that's a conservative estimate based on fossil evidence. There may have been primitive microscopic life for many years before that. But, so far as we know, there's no evidence of invaders from Planet-X visiting us (so far as we know).
That's important, because if an interstellar "power" were seeking "new lands" or even conquests, then there was plenty of time before we arose as a species for another intelligent race to come and ransack our world of whatever it is they wanted.
I'll also add that it took more than one climatic change (several planetary freezes), a change in sunspot activity and a massive meteor strike to allow creatures with glands and a caring nature (well, more caring than dinos) to rise as a major species. And, it took at least a million years for our proto-species to evolve into us, and several ten-thousand more for our version of humans to render other species of humans extinct.
And only then, once the competition had been done away with, and once wild game could no longer support ancient tribes, did our species begin to harvest plants and start civilization. And, even then, it took thousands and thousands of years to get to where we are today.
That's not to say that there aren't other intelligent species out there on other worlds, but considering the time and unique circumstances to took to create us, then the odds would appear to be against the proposition.
Of course, we could be invaded tomorrow, and I'd look like an idiot. But I think intelligent and hostile life being interested in us, with technology that dwarfs our own, doesn't seem likely.
Consider; if you were in charge of a major force with military and industrial capabilities, and you came to Sol, with all of the resources at your disposal, knowing the mineral content of all of the worlds (oceans of hydrogen on Juptier that would drown thousands of Earths), liquid reactive and noble gases on planets that also dwarf the Earth in the outer orbits, would you even bother trying to conquer humans?
Just a thought.
That's important, because if an interstellar "power" were seeking "new lands" or even conquests, then there was plenty of time before we arose as a species for another intelligent race to come and ransack our world of whatever it is they wanted.
I'll also add that it took more than one climatic change (several planetary freezes), a change in sunspot activity and a massive meteor strike to allow creatures with glands and a caring nature (well, more caring than dinos) to rise as a major species. And, it took at least a million years for our proto-species to evolve into us, and several ten-thousand more for our version of humans to render other species of humans extinct.
And only then, once the competition had been done away with, and once wild game could no longer support ancient tribes, did our species begin to harvest plants and start civilization. And, even then, it took thousands and thousands of years to get to where we are today.
That's not to say that there aren't other intelligent species out there on other worlds, but considering the time and unique circumstances to took to create us, then the odds would appear to be against the proposition.
Of course, we could be invaded tomorrow, and I'd look like an idiot. But I think intelligent and hostile life being interested in us, with technology that dwarfs our own, doesn't seem likely.
Consider; if you were in charge of a major force with military and industrial capabilities, and you came to Sol, with all of the resources at your disposal, knowing the mineral content of all of the worlds (oceans of hydrogen on Juptier that would drown thousands of Earths), liquid reactive and noble gases on planets that also dwarf the Earth in the outer orbits, would you even bother trying to conquer humans?
Just a thought.
Bother?
Because then I will have to blow something up, *sigh* and I do so hate blowing things up. I need to hire one of those Grand Moff fellas. I heard the like blowing stuff up. And since they are primitives too it keeps them occupied. Sheesh. Kids, hey?
Bother with the primitives? By the Void, I am hoping they don't bother me!/last snip of the day/
Consider; if you were in charge of a major force with military and industrial capabilities, and you came to Sol, with all of the resources at your disposal, knowing the mineral content of all of the worlds (oceans of hydrogen on Juptier that would drown thousands of Earths), liquid reactive and noble gases on planets that also dwarf the Earth in the outer orbits, would you even bother trying to conquer humans?
Just a thought.
Because then I will have to blow something up, *sigh* and I do so hate blowing things up. I need to hire one of those Grand Moff fellas. I heard the like blowing stuff up. And since they are primitives too it keeps them occupied. Sheesh. Kids, hey?
Consider; if you were in charge of a major force with military and industrial capabilities, and you came to Sol, with all of the resources at your disposal, knowing the mineral content of all of the worlds (oceans of hydrogen on Juptier that would drown thousands of Earths), liquid reactive and noble gases on planets that also dwarf the Earth in the outer orbits, would you even bother trying to conquer humans?
Just a thought.
Conquer? No. Eradicate as a major threat? Yes.
What, us backwater rockhuggers? Yes. We're (1) territorial, (2) violent, (3) technological, (4) insanely curious, and (5) still confined.
Once we genuinely realize FTL is doable, we WILL work hard to find out how, and then go pollute everyone else's homeworlds. And then get violently upset about being forcibly turned away, which merely drives our curiousity into paranoia.
Better to squelch us where we squat than to let us off world.
Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
No, I'd put up a sign that says "Don't Feed The Animals" at the hyperlimit, and put up the intergalactic version of an electric fence to keep us in.
Vladika
SOC-14 1K
I'm with aramis on this one. Any other species who would deliberately let humans loose in the galaxy would be terminally stupid.
Hi,
From what I have looked over I was under the impression that things like cell phones are of such low power and since they aren't really directional signals they would probably only be detectable over a distance of less than a light year or so (if I am recalling correctly).
Probably - but, like how a single mosquito can only be heard for a foot or two, a swarm can be heard at 40 yards+, they add up. You certainly won't be able to pick out a single cell-phone at even an AU... but you should be able to pick up the noise of a few dozen thousand in any given band out to pluto. Or, would be able to were it not for the atmospheric absorption.
And that's before a 100m+ dish. (Arecibo is 300m.)
This is what I love about the COTI. You guys are are always optimistic 
I remember a documentary hosted by Timothy Ferris called "Life Beyond Earth". In it there's an argument that states that it isn't that life elsewhere hasn't evolved, nor even intelligent life, but perhaps the lifespan of intelligent civilizations are brief to the point that their existence doesn't overlap others. The result being that an intelligent species may evolve, but they snuff themselves out before another can evolve, and therefore the two exist at the same time, or at the very least don't develop the tech so make sure their civ lives on, and therefore again they don't meet another civ elsewhere.
In one of the docs I saw a couple days ago on dinosaurs it's listed as one of the reasons they [dinosaurs] were so successful; they didn't worry about who liked them and who didn't. If you were a plant eater, you ate, ran if you could, and otherwise lived. If you were a predator you killed to eat. If there wasn't enough food around, then you ate your kids or your neighbor/rival. The point there being that they weren't likely to extinguish themselves in a war because they weren't smart enough (or dumb enough, depending on your POV). On the other hand, they didn't become brilliant enough to recognize cosmic disasters. Ergo they lasted a long time, but ultimately didn't survive?
Interesting tangent; On V-Sauce (one of my Youtube subscriptions, or maybe Scishow, another excellent mini Youtube sci show) the guy who does the show quotes a scientists who states that if the universe were big enough, then there'd be an exact duplicate of you some world on the other end of the universe. The argument being that because there's enough permeability for all the possible combinations of atoms and molecules to take place, there is therefore duplication, and therefore another you
Implying that yes, for you pessimistic types, there's another world out there worthy of quarantine :rofl:
I remember a documentary hosted by Timothy Ferris called "Life Beyond Earth". In it there's an argument that states that it isn't that life elsewhere hasn't evolved, nor even intelligent life, but perhaps the lifespan of intelligent civilizations are brief to the point that their existence doesn't overlap others. The result being that an intelligent species may evolve, but they snuff themselves out before another can evolve, and therefore the two exist at the same time, or at the very least don't develop the tech so make sure their civ lives on, and therefore again they don't meet another civ elsewhere.
In one of the docs I saw a couple days ago on dinosaurs it's listed as one of the reasons they [dinosaurs] were so successful; they didn't worry about who liked them and who didn't. If you were a plant eater, you ate, ran if you could, and otherwise lived. If you were a predator you killed to eat. If there wasn't enough food around, then you ate your kids or your neighbor/rival. The point there being that they weren't likely to extinguish themselves in a war because they weren't smart enough (or dumb enough, depending on your POV). On the other hand, they didn't become brilliant enough to recognize cosmic disasters. Ergo they lasted a long time, but ultimately didn't survive?
Interesting tangent; On V-Sauce (one of my Youtube subscriptions, or maybe Scishow, another excellent mini Youtube sci show) the guy who does the show quotes a scientists who states that if the universe were big enough, then there'd be an exact duplicate of you some world on the other end of the universe. The argument being that because there's enough permeability for all the possible combinations of atoms and molecules to take place, there is therefore duplication, and therefore another you
Implying that yes, for you pessimistic types, there's another world out there worthy of quarantine :rofl:
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Vladika
SOC-14 1K
Probably why no contact. Most likely observation to make sure they take us back to the Stone Age if we really get close to figuring out FTL tech.
I posted this elsewhere, on a newsgroup, but this is what I came up with.
Our galaxy is about 10 billion years old. Our solar system is slightly less than half that amount.
The problem of finding non-Earth life is, did they show up in this galaxy, roamed the galaxy, and died off before our solar system even formed ? Or, are they on the other side of the galaxy from us, and have only ships like the Saturn V ? Or some other reason they are no longer around, like a comet hit ?
Our radio and tv sphere is out about 100 light years. There are stars within that sphere that have planets in the comfort zone for atmosphere, heat, night, etc. similar to Earth.
Vladika
SOC-14 1K
In any case, the Vilani outpost in Barnard's Star seem not to have picked us yet...
Not so sure. 100s-1000s of people abducted every year, cows too. Makes you wonder what they think the more intelligent of the two are...:rofl:
Hi,
I once had an idea for trying to set up an ATU where first contact for Earth occurs by accident when a ship from one side involved in an interstellar cold war stumbles across us. Because of the cold war setting I figured that maybe a kind of semi-advanced planet with some manufacturing capabilities etc, like Earth might be more valuable as a potential trade partner and/or ally to someone in the cold war rather than getting involved in minor side war/invasion of Earth etc.
I once had an idea for trying to set up an ATU where first contact for Earth occurs by accident when a ship from one side involved in an interstellar cold war stumbles across us. Because of the cold war setting I figured that maybe a kind of semi-advanced planet with some manufacturing capabilities etc, like Earth might be more valuable as a potential trade partner and/or ally to someone in the cold war rather than getting involved in minor side war/invasion of Earth etc.
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
You should take a look at some of Christopher Anvil's short stories then. Check out the Trouble with Humans. I do have major problems with planetary invasions, but I could easily see the Earth being useful as an ally to someone. No lack of combativeness on this planet.
Gordon Dickson had a story called Danger! Human
In that story it alludes to that the humans are dangerous and to leave them alone
He has some other stories that suggest that aliens will want to eliminate humans but due to humans mentality the aliens have problems as what took them (aliens) a long time to create the humans do so much more quickly.
Dave Chase
In that story it alludes to that the humans are dangerous and to leave them alone
He has some other stories that suggest that aliens will want to eliminate humans but due to humans mentality the aliens have problems as what took them (aliens) a long time to create the humans do so much more quickly.
Dave Chase
Earth; mostly harmless.
VonPickles
SOC-12
Thank you!!!
Though the Whales have been in contact with alien intelligence for years!
lets just hope they dont examine our "Historical Documents"
Peter Newman
SOC-12
In any case, the Vilani outpost in Barnard's Star seem not to have picked us yet
Everybody knows that the Vilani outlawed broadband receivers. By allowing reception of transmitted information they violate the technology patent of two tin cans and a piece of string.