Armor value of a vacc suit?
- Thread starter LMB
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far-trader
SOC-14 10K
Equal to Cloth...
...now where did I get my first thought of Cloth -1 from?
...Diplo? (Diplomatic, stealth armour suit) Or maybe a Light-Duty VaccSuit (or Tailored VaccSuit) option? Some house rule or borrowed from another rules set? Anyway, CT VaccSuits are equal to Cloth
(good thing I checked before trusting my memory on this one 
)
...now where did I get my first thought of Cloth -1 from?
...Diplo? (Diplomatic, stealth armour suit) Or maybe a Light-Duty VaccSuit (or Tailored VaccSuit) option? Some house rule or borrowed from another rules set? Anyway, CT VaccSuits are equal to Cloth
(good thing I checked before trusting my memory on this one )
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Weren't there rules in Tarsus about this? I'd don't have my CD handy or I'd look it up.
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
About the Cloth -1 suit? Tarsus you say? Hmmm...
<whirrrr...>
AHA! And EUREKA EVEN!! Right you are Spinward Scout. The old Combat Environment Suit! That IS the Cloth -1 armour I was thinking of. Thank you!
BlackBat242
SOC-14 1K
High Passage #3 (1982) published by FASA has an article on the Long Range Thruster System for vacc suits... which includes info on the Improved Hard Suit.
This is a vacc suit designed for heavy-duty use, and for extended occupancy (24 hours, with an optional Extended Life Support System module for an additional 48 hours).
It incorporates all features of Combat Armor (same armor rating, as well as all mapping, commo, comp, chameleon, etc options), but is available for civilian purchase.
The DGP book Grand Survey has, on page 21-22, a listing of several different types of vacc suits. It also has several types of Hostile Environment Vacc Suits, with armor ratings from Cloth -2 to Combat +2.
This is a vacc suit designed for heavy-duty use, and for extended occupancy (24 hours, with an optional Extended Life Support System module for an additional 48 hours).
It incorporates all features of Combat Armor (same armor rating, as well as all mapping, commo, comp, chameleon, etc options), but is available for civilian purchase.
The DGP book Grand Survey has, on page 21-22, a listing of several different types of vacc suits. It also has several types of Hostile Environment Vacc Suits, with armor ratings from Cloth -2 to Combat +2.
Interestingly, Cloth-2 is in almost all cases better than Combat+2.
(Keep in mind: Cloth minus 2 makes the suit better.)
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
No it doesn't, but then Traveller DMs have always been confusing and confused. (...just look at the quote below "plus DM -1", I mean come on, is it a plus or a minus? does it help or hinder?... the answer is it is a minus and hinders, but that "plus" throws cluttered confusion into a simple mechanic, and iirc it's everywhere...)
From the CES description:
"The suit is treated as cloth -1 (cloth column of the combat table plus DM -1 in combat)."
And a DM -1 in combat is a reduction in the likelihood of hitting.
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Yes it does.
Exactly. Cloth-1 means that attackers use the Cloth column and subtract an additional 1. So it makes the wearer harder to hit, which makes it better armor. OTOH, +DMs make it easier to hit the wearer, thus the armor is less effective. Also see the animal encounters chapter, which makes this principle very clear.
Equal to Cloth...
...now where did I get my first thought of Cloth -1 from?
...Diplo? (Diplomatic, stealth armour suit) Or maybe a Light-Duty VaccSuit (or Tailored VaccSuit) option? Some house rule or borrowed from another rules set? Anyway, CT VaccSuits are equal to Cloth
Not that I don't believe you, but I'm the kind of guy that looks really hard for info before I ask (even searched this forum) and I have a pretty impressive pile of CT books (though sadly not complete) and I couldn't find it. Where did you locate the answer?
This turn in the conversation has me a little worried that I've been applying DM's incorrectly. For example, a Flak jacket being Cloth +1, I thought this indicated it was 1 better than Cloth.
That would be the intuitive thing to think, but it's not the case. It's 1 worse. In addition to the information on animal armor, consider the explanation for the flak jacket:
"[...]treated as Cloth +1, except where that modification would cause it to be less effective than Mesh, in which case it is treated as unmodified Cloth."
If Cloth +1 was an improvement, it could never cause it to be less effective than Mesh. So clearly, it's not.
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
Confused? Moi? Obviously
I stand corrected Tobias and plead over-tiredness when typing (I'm sure it made sense to me when I typed it... lol)
I stand corrected Tobias and plead over-tiredness when typing
(I'm sure it made sense to me when I typed it... lol)
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
No problem, I would have listed pages but... didn't
I wonder if it might be a 1st printing miss?
In 2nd printing CT: Book 1: Pg 41: Vacc Suit description
This turn in the conversation has me a little worried that I've been applying DM's incorrectly. For example, a Flak jacket being Cloth +1, I thought this indicated it was 1 better than Cloth.[/QUOTE]
I can't blame you. It's not exactly the most clearly explained concept in the CT rules. It took me a while to make sense out of it.Confused? Moi? Obviously
I stand corrected Tobias and plead over-tiredness when typing
BlackBat242
SOC-14 1K
OK... the Grand Survey entry lists the HEVS in ascending TL order as follows:
Cloth -1...... TL 8
Cloth -2...... TL 9
Combat +2.. TL 12
Combat +1.. TL 13
Combat ...... TL 14
Cloth -1...... TL 8
Cloth -2...... TL 9
Combat +2.. TL 12
Combat +1.. TL 13
Combat ...... TL 14
No problem, I would have listed pages but... didn't
I wonder if it might be a 1st printing miss?
In 2nd printing CT: Book 1: Pg 41: Vacc Suit description
Errata?
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
Hope you're not asking me
I don't have my first run books any longer and can't check. I just wondered if maybe the OP was looking at the first run and it was missing there.
This is odd in that TL11 Combat Armor is a Vacc Suit and Bk1 says a Vacc suit is equal to cloth.
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