Armour Legality
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Enoki
SOC-14 1K
I look at body armor of any sort with a "what is reasonable attire in public?" view. That is if you are wearing combat armor in public on a planet where wearing clothes like here on Earth is the norm and there is a high law level you can expect attention from the authorities.
But, I also don't push a high or low law level rigidly either. What that means is that the law may prohibit you possessing certain weapons, armor, etc., but so long as you don't flaunt it in public, raise suspicision among the authorities, or do some overt act that attracts their attention they won't hassle you. I do take into account population here. The more there are the less likely the authorities will instantly come down on you to a degree. Tech level also plays a role. The higher the tech the more likely there are increasingly difficult surveillance systems to avoid if you want to do something quasi- or illegal like carry weapons or wear armor if prohibited.
In the end it is what is reasonable at that law level given the type of world you are on? That is the question to answer here. But, as a rule walking around in combat armor would be somewhere between highly questionable and illegal. I'd see it as you wearing a suit of armor in Medieval times day in and out. That would be completely out of place and attract attention of the authorities.
But, I also don't push a high or low law level rigidly either. What that means is that the law may prohibit you possessing certain weapons, armor, etc., but so long as you don't flaunt it in public, raise suspicision among the authorities, or do some overt act that attracts their attention they won't hassle you. I do take into account population here. The more there are the less likely the authorities will instantly come down on you to a degree. Tech level also plays a role. The higher the tech the more likely there are increasingly difficult surveillance systems to avoid if you want to do something quasi- or illegal like carry weapons or wear armor if prohibited.
In the end it is what is reasonable at that law level given the type of world you are on? That is the question to answer here. But, as a rule walking around in combat armor would be somewhere between highly questionable and illegal. I'd see it as you wearing a suit of armor in Medieval times day in and out. That would be completely out of place and attract attention of the authorities.
IIRC, Battle Dress is banned as military hardware at LL3.
IMTU, BD and CA are both banned at LL3, and most body armor is banned around LL7. Jack isn't banned until about LL12.
Sounds reasonable.
Though if I do run a campaign I'm going to use the MGT rule where TL10+ cloth armor is about the same size as normal clothing, i.e. someone could go around in it all day and the reason a LL7 cop is harassing him is because she knows what to look for.
MgT Central Supply Catalog has a good essay/system for Weapons, Armor and Military equipment for law levels. It puts specific weapons and equipment into Categories and then discusses what categories are typically blocked at different Law Levels. It also discusses a Permit System for who is allowed to own different weapons/equipment. Also, if you get a Weapon or Armor from a Benefit roll, you automatically have a permit for it.
One thing that it brings up is the legality of owning it and wearing/using it in public.
One thing that it brings up is the legality of owning it and wearing/using it in public.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
BD and CA may be controlled due to their military grade augmentations and electronics, but strip it down and call it a vacc suit and you are good to walk around just about anywhere 
Clothing is one of those things that the OTU has always glossed over.
When was the last time your PCs went to the starport mall to buy local clothing to blend in with the locals?
Clothing is one of those things that the OTU has always glossed over.
When was the last time your PCs went to the starport mall to buy local clothing to blend in with the locals?
BD and CA may be controlled due to their military grade augmentations and electronics, but strip it down and call it a vacc suit and you are good to walk around just about anywhere
Clothing is one of those things that the OTU has always glossed over.
When was the last time your PCs went to the starport mall to buy local clothing to blend in with the locals?
Each of my last 5 campaigns, multiple times!
I like that, but does it discuss the level of issue of said permit? I figure that in the Imperium, where they 'govern between the spaces', that an Impie issue permit is good in the starport extrality area, where imperium-level prevails over local law, and on any Imp planet that specifically endorses Imp permits. Otherwise, if the local law level exceeds the category of weapon, you need a local permit, which you may be allowed to get IF you have the Imp permit, or are a local.
Of course, my players came to Traveller from Timelords/D&D/other fantasy games, so had a problem accepting gun control, especially since they know in real life I don't like it. One shoot-out with cops on surveillance and a hurried launch later (in a pocket empire, fortunately), and they began to realize they had to think differently. They're in the Core region now, hating the law level, but hating the idea of being within range of the extradition request even more...
OTOH, I also made up my own weapons catalog for each of the races / polities, and the players didn't get to see the crunchy stuff. They got a picture, mag cap, type & caliber, law level ( a few items are adjusted up or down from normal based on lack of features or extra-scary appearance) and cost. Sure enough, the one I knew would be a problem complained that he didn't know which one was "best" because he couldn't tell how much damage they did. I told him that he couldn't see the stats till I said so, and all he had to work with was the gun catalog - just like going to a store, where they don't have a convenient listing of ballistic gel results.
CosmicGamer
SOC-14 1K
Your Captain smacking common sense into you?
What's to stop real life people from suiting up in scuba gear with a fire fighters outfit over the top whenever they leave the house? You know, just in case of a tsunami or fire.
Less drastic: What's to stop you from slinging a 40 lb backpack full of spare water, rations, medical supplies and survival gear whenever you venture from home?
What's to stop someone from wearing white after Labor Day?
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As with most things, there is no single simple answer and often it's a combination of things both pro and con that need to be weighed.
I'm shifting this back to weapons for discussion because some may think my example of going around in scuba and fire gear silly although personally I'd think someone in public with combat garb a bit silly too.
In many places in the US it is legal to carry a weapon as long as it is not concealed. I live in such a state but rarely do I see people slinging guns. Why is this?
In this case, not because the law level prohibits it.
Perhaps it draws too much unwanted attention from law officials.
Perhaps it draws too much attention from criminals.
Even though it's legal, businesses have the right to refuse service and ask you to leave.
It's uncomfortable.
Not at war and violent crime is rare, especially during normal business hours.
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Other considerations could be the availability of the equipment. If it is only available to those in the military or law enforcement then while the item itself may not be illegal, if you are not currently in the military then perhaps it's assumed you obtained it illegally. Perhaps you are a black market weapons dealer. We have these nice bracelets for you and we'll be searching your ship now.
Yes, it goes into all of that. I'm finding that MgT books cover the whole spectrum from Really Good, to Really Bad. That part of the CSC is, IMO, one of the better parts.
One of the fun parts of that system is that it says that even IF a character is perfectly legal to carry/use something, the local laws might just forbid it outside of the Starport. To me that is a license to make for an interesting social aspect of an adventure...
DangerousThing
SOC-13
It's a role-playing thing.
Combat armor looks like combat armor. There are times and places where it is both useful and appropriate, even if it is illegal. However the characters have to pay the penalties if caught.
Now, I can accept clothing that has basic armor (mesh or cloth), but the characters are going to stand out as outworlders, at least. Maybe somebody could make comfortable armor that fits under clothing. Which works until the first time the characters get to a culture where nudity is the norm and they get arrested for indecent exposure for wearing clothing.
Combat armor looks like combat armor. There are times and places where it is both useful and appropriate, even if it is illegal. However the characters have to pay the penalties if caught.
Now, I can accept clothing that has basic armor (mesh or cloth), but the characters are going to stand out as outworlders, at least. Maybe somebody could make comfortable armor that fits under clothing. Which works until the first time the characters get to a culture where nudity is the norm and they get arrested for indecent exposure for wearing clothing.
SciFi author Jerry Pournelle mentioned one time in one of his commentaries that there is a major SciFi Author that always carries around a "Alien Abduction Bag" which is a bag with all the things that he feels is minimally needed if he was ever abducted by aliens...
Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
Which works until the first time the characters get to a culture where nudity is the norm and they get arrested for indecent exposure for wearing clothing.
Wouldn't that be indecent inexposure?
A RP possibility to consider is the Apostle Paul conundrum: Paul was taken prisoner by the Jews (the local officials), and brought to Festus (the Imperial representative, as procurator of Judea); Festus was going to give him a show trial in Jerusalem (local capital), so he appealed to Caesar as a Roman citizen (exercised his Imperial citizenship). The problem is that once he did, Festus sent Paul to Agrippa (local king), who listened to Paul and threw out the charges - except Paul had appealed to Caesar, and so he had to go. Instead of being let go, he had to be taken as a prisoner to Rome.
So, a PC appeals to his status with the 3I... which now gets him dragged off somewhere, possibly in chains, instead of being let go because the local magistrate was an honest guy.
Enoki
SOC-14 1K
I would also say that what constitutes lighter armor like jack, mesh, or a "flak vest" (bullet proof vest-like) armor would change some with TL. Given what we have in RL today and where it has come from over the last 100+ years I could see stuff at higher TL's where you might have bullet proof vest-like armor that looks like a heavier weave set of normal clothing and even clothing that is "normal" that would stop most cutting edge weapons with both qualifing as armor.
This likely would pass as just clothing at lower TL's than the one that manufacturered it simply because authorities might not be looking for it or know particularly what it is. CA and BD are obvious. A cloth jacket and pants that are TL 14 say and bullet proof might not be nearly so obvious if they were designed to look like everyday clothing.
This likely would pass as just clothing at lower TL's than the one that manufacturered it simply because authorities might not be looking for it or know particularly what it is. CA and BD are obvious. A cloth jacket and pants that are TL 14 say and bullet proof might not be nearly so obvious if they were designed to look like everyday clothing.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Ahh, but whose everyday clothing do you style it on?
If you want to blend in with the locals yo have to dress like the locals.
If you want to blend in with the locals yo have to dress like the locals.
When I've been referee, most armor was not forbiden in most planets (CA and BD were, as, anyway, most of them have integral waponry forbiden in most ofthem), but the key here is, as many have said, the social effect on it.
You can walk the streets of a TL 6 world in armor, but you can count on a negative modifier in any reaction roll (quite good if you're trying to do busines, as even MP tables modify the proces according to reaction). Also law enforcement will take interest in you, and documentation checks are more often, permits take longer, etc...
You can walk the streets of a TL 6 world in armor, but you can count on a negative modifier in any reaction roll (quite good if you're trying to do busines, as even MP tables modify the proces according to reaction). Also law enforcement will take interest in you, and documentation checks are more often, permits take longer, etc...
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Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
Which is why you wear under-clothing armor. Most high-end ($$) modern concealable armor is designed to be worn under a business suit in such a way that most people will never know you're protected. I expect it will be the same in the far future, only a little more so. Of course, those only protect against center-of-mass attacks....
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Here's an experiment for you to try.
Mail order the latest paramilitary style body armour, put it on, go down to the local shopping mall for an hour or two of browsing.
Don't like that experiment?
Put the armour on then cover it with loose fitting clothing or outdoor stuff, then go to the mall.
If you are lucky you will just get stopped and searched. If you are unlucky you will be shot.
Mail order the latest paramilitary style body armour, put it on, go down to the local shopping mall for an hour or two of browsing.
Don't like that experiment?
Put the armour on then cover it with loose fitting clothing or outdoor stuff, then go to the mall.
If you are lucky you will just get stopped and searched. If you are unlucky you will be shot.
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