At Close Quarters for CT

[DaveChase]

Want to talk about things to do if you don't have know weapons and you need to fight back.

There are many common things around every house hold/space ship that you could use.

Have you ever seen what an oxygen/actelene bottle can do if you knock off the neck. (assuming it was loaded/pressurized)

What does ammonia and chorline do when combine?

Every wondered what those surivial ration heaters are made of (chemically)?

Got some starter fluid (or similar lightable material)? Blow up a can of that in an enclosed space and then light a flare.

A 5lb of flour sifted finely in to the air with a flare or appropriate flame source will cause a major explosion. (many variables here determines how much a source you need, from just a spark to open flame to and primary small explosion.)

Got any acids around?

Any large amount of clothes, burnable furinature, other burnable items? Start fire then dampen slightly the other parts of the material, continous smoke.

Generate electricity? String wire across or down a corridor, live or controlable switching.

Have the ability to open airlocks remotely (either through computer/access or remote explosives)? What until they are close if the explosion does not get them the 'atmosphere' will

Any of these are possible.

Dave Chase

 

[flykiller]

Its realism is its failure. It should be an exciting game, but it isn't. Because, given this situation, what do you do? ... I'm interested in a game a) that works; b) with interesting tactical options. SL meets both criteria, Snapshot meets neither.

as has been pointed out, you're confusing the ruleset with the setting. within a small hull, unit tactical maneuver options are limited, period. any ruleset that breaks that is likely to be unacceptable in a scifi game.

the situation you describe happens all the time in city fighting. troops in cities use sewers and break down walls to increase maneuver options, they use armor in places where they have to get shot at, and they use indirect fire weapons to attack the enemy while remaining under cover themselves. but frequently there's nothing for it but to go over the top and straight up the middle, and god be with you. but that's not a problem with the ruleset.

 

[Supplement Four]

Go down to the locker, grab flares, grab bottle. Throw same down corridor with flares burning. Shoot bottle.

Throw just flares.

Make up smoke bomb from material in ship.

Starve them out.

Start the circle around by going out on the hull with welder or alongside their area, close the hatch on your side while at same time cutting through their hull section. A few hours in vacc suits should make them sad and tired if they even have them.

Take a hostage.

Do all of the above.

Who's got control of environmental? If you control the ship's computer, you control the ship. Zap out the oxy. Slap 'em into zero G. Deny them light.

All of a sudden, it's a winnable scenario.

 

[DaveChase]

Who's got control of environmental? If you control the ship's computer, you control the ship. Zap out the oxy. Slap 'em into zero G. Deny them light.

All of a sudden, it's a winnable scenario.

Yup, unless they got
Vacc Suits
Boarding suits (Combat armor/vacc suits)

Grav control doing the how heavy can you go before your heart fails. Is a good trick too.
Assuming you allow such type of gravity control on your ships.

Had some players that were so worried that this might be used against them that they hard wired the ships grav plates to always be 1g.


Dave Chase

 

[Rhialto the Marvelous]

Note that none of these fit within the snapshot rules because they can't. They are, however, the correct things to try.

Those are all good points.

I'm just looking for combat rules that work all by themselves, without clever ideas on top to make them work.

Snapshot was published as a standalone wargame. Ergo, it should work as a standalone wargame. But it doesn't.

 

[DaveChase]

I think I have got a solution for you Rhialto

It sounds like to me after rereading your posts and digging out Snapshot and rereading it twice that the issue is not the game mechanics so much as the outcomes and variables in the play.

(If I am wrong, sorry)

Every play chess against your self. Probably not, unless you were either really, really bored or you decided to play to different strategies against each other to learn and get better (lots of patience to do that).

So here is some of my thoughts when you play Snapshot, or any solo combat like game.

Determine either intentionally or randomaly what the goals/desires of each side is (or each character/figure).
To control, to eliminate, to win with little loss, to take out a certain character, or to contol a certain location.

For even more detail, determine a personality trait for each figure:
Bravado, its only a scratch
Faint from blood, I fine, fine I tell you. Is that my blood, oh my ......
Kelpto, loot, rings, ammo, magazines
Opposite sex hater/lover (goes out of the way to either fire at or avoid firing at the opposite sex if known)
Closer the better or don't touch me combat style
I shot, I ducked, I am done for the day, wheres the beer
Yeller, screamer, beats their chest everytime they win, hit or such
A sneak, You can stand up there and get shot at, I think I will go outside and come around the back way
(just some extreme ideas of traits)

Then the game becomes more interesting because you have objectives and reasons why the figures are doing certain actions. Kind of RPGing both sides as 2 (or more) different people.

Several mimiature games have this function build into them even for real player versus real player.

I would like to suggest a book to you to maybe help add some flavor and diversity to your games, where you play both sides.

Programmed Wargames Scenarios

by Charles Stewart Grant
Published by Wargames Research Group

If this is not quite what the problem is, please try explaining again. I would really like to help you as I a sure that others on this board would too.

Dave Chase

 

[pendragonman]

Closer the better ...
Dave Chase

Mr Chase, have you been talking to the guys I game with?

If I can't tell what you had for breakfast, how can I see the light go out of your eyes?:devil:

 

[DaveChase]

Mr Chase, have you been talking to the guys I game with?

If I can't tell what you had for breakfast, how can I see the light go out of your eyes?:devil:

Dear sir,
We regretfully have to inform you that we longer carry the movie The Professional. We apologize for this inconvenince and hope that does not cause you any personal difficulty.
We greatly appreciate your business (what ever that might be) that has offered us the chance to provide you with over 300 copies of said movie.

Please have a nice day.

Movies on demand




LOL
Dave Chase

 

[Rhialto the Marvelous]

It sounds like to me after rereading your posts and digging out Snapshot and rereading it twice that the issue is not the game mechanics so much as the outcomes and variables in the play.

That's exactly right.

So here is some of my thoughts when you play Snapshot, or any solo combat like game.

The thing is, I didn't "just" play--I played two scenarios that came with the game. Both times the objection was to eliminate the opposition. But that couldn't happen because of the stalemate thing.

Several mimiature games have this function build into them even for real player versus real player.

I would like to suggest a book to you to maybe help add some flavor and diversity to your games, where you play both sides.

by Charles Stewart Grant
Published by Wargames Research Group

Yes, I've actually played games like that (one-shots, I forget the names), and I've been meaning to read that Grant book for the longest time.

The problem I have with Snapshot is that, as written, out of the box, no houserules, it's broken. You can't hand your buddy a copy of the rules, and just start playing. If you do, you will inevitably end up arguing over this and that and/or get stuck in a stalemate.

And while it's true that no RPG can cover all eventualities, as a substitute for CT combat Snapshot has too much of a subjective factor to it--too much reliance on the GM to come up with judgment calls in life-and-death situations. Again, line of sight.

But it's not a big deal--I'm not crestfallen or anything,

 

[DaveChase]

That's exactly right.

The thing is, I didn't "just" play--I played two scenarios that came with the game. Both times the objection was to eliminate the opposition. But that couldn't happen because of the stalemate thing.

Actually a lot of games are kind of like that, especially the older ones from the early 80's. When I worked for WizKids LLC, we went so far as to find kids (or the target audience age of the game being produced/supplemented) that had never played the game before and asked them to play, let us watch and then tell us what was wrong in their opinoin.
Now, we did not always make some or any changes but it was a great feedback, cause new players was one of our goals.

New made or remade games usually have a faster, easier and fun scenario right out of the box to make your first attempt a fun and great one.

Yes, I've actually played games like that (one-shots, I forget the names), and I've been meaning to read that Grant book for the longest time.

Mr. Grant's book is a good start for solo gamers. Pick up a layman's book on Psychology some time and use some of the personality traits in it to add to characters, makes solo play a bit easier

The problem I have with Snapshot is that, as written, out of the box, no houserules, it's broken. You can't hand your buddy a copy of the rules, and just start playing. If you do, you will inevitably end up arguing over this and that and/or get stuck in a stalemate.

I believe we have found the root of the problem.
Open wide, say AHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

Rhialto, how about you and me make new Snapshot rule set.
I have been playing around with miniatures for some time. And I have some experience in the miniature game rules since that was part of my job at WizKids LLC. To destroy, find loop holes and tournament play broken things. Besides other things that is
Now I am saying that we should make
Traveller (T)(R) game cause Mongoose has those rights. I am saying we should make a detailed set of Sci Fi rules that covers about everything. Has a beginner/quick set rules for fast play. Detail rules for normal play. AND the everything plus the kitchen sink plus all the tools to install it with set of rules.

What do you say?

Dave Chase

 

[Commander Truestar]

And I have some experience in the miniature game rules since that was part of my job at WizKids LLC.
Dave Chase

I love it when something comes full circle..
From GDW Traveller to FASA Suppliments to FASA BAttletech to Wizkids Games back to Traveller >

Ya gotta love this industry!!!
Though, IIRC, you were new with WizKids, weren't you Dave?

 

[DaveChase]

I love it when something comes full circle..
From GDW Traveller to FASA Suppliments to FASA BAttletech to Wizkids Games back to Traveller >

Ya gotta love this industry!!!
Though, IIRC, you were new with WizKids, weren't you Dave?

Not sure what you meant by new with WizKids. But yes they found me out of the blue while I was out processing from Active Duty Army. Had been a big fan of BattleTech and some where even have Battle Droid original box

I was the volunteer coordinator for them. I was one of the faces that went to all the conventions during my 2 years (ones that asked for a WizKids presence.)
I was the final rule authority for all WizKids games for tournament and casual play. Even though we had a butt load of volunteers and game designers who hashed them out, I was the final authority to the public. (In house, it was Jordan, the game designer, organized play coordiantor and me that did most of the final rule read throughs)

My WizKids game persona was OverLord. Only used that to sign official winning documents/plaques.

After my first 3 months, I was involved with everything from brainstorming, miniatures that would work, rules that were broken, shipping dates, seeking new licensing, artist, game designers, along with investigating fraud, false claims and disputes and making sure that WizKids games were fun to play for all that might consider the games.
I was not alone in doing this but I was one of the faces of WizKids besides Jordan and the game designers.

Even worked behind the scenes to insure that a history of the MageKnight world existed and was written down, Military figures and hearldry of MechWarrior was true and consistent with the written world of BattleTech, among other things.

I was not the life and blood of WizKids by any means, That was Jordan Weisman and him alone (well with lots of minions running around trying to keep up with his genius ideas

But I was a major figure head until just before the Topps buy out. Different story and will not go into those things here on Traveller forums. Just giving a bried history of me and WizKids LLC not WizKids INC.

Dave Chase

 

[Rhialto the Marvelous]

What do you say?

A fabulous idea. Let me get back to you when/if I get tenure.

Actually... let me get back to you after retirement.

BTW, did you know that Topps closed down WizKids last week? Battletech and Shadowrun will be safe, though.

http://ogrecave.com/2008/11/11/shadowrun-and-battletech-safe-despite-wizkids-closure/

 

[DaveChase]

OK, and that is when

A fabulous idea. Let me get back to you when/if I get tenure.

Actually... let me get back to you after retirement.

BTW, did you know that Topps closed down WizKids last week? Battletech and Shadowrun will be safe, though.

http://ogrecave.com/2008/11/11/shadowrun-and-battletech-safe-despite-wizkids-closure/

And yes, unfornately, WizKids is closed and probably being buried as we speak. Not to hijack the thread but, I spoke with Jordan (email) and we both (among others) feel very sad. It was a great little company and had some very good products.
Only those products that were already licensed out are so/so secure. Other other products are open for discussion. Personally I feel Topps and Fleer (whom I use to work for) tried jumping into a different industry with out fully realizing how that industry works or buys products. WotC had some of the same difficulties when Hasbro bought them and well.
I am going to end this now. If anyone would like to discuss this further start another thread in the Pit or Random.

Back on subject. Sounds good. How long before I should start dusting off my desk LOL

Dave Chase

 

[aramis]

for referfence: WizKids Should be RS, not Pit.

 

[DaveChase]

Thanks aramis

for referfence: WizKids Should be RS, not Pit.

Sounds good.

Note: I will not talk about any WizKids things that are not generally already known to the public in public free access forums.

Have fun

Dave Chase

 

[aramis]

Sounds good.

Note: I will not talk about any WizKids things that are not generally already known to the public in public free access forums.

Have fun

Dave Chase

In which case, the only areas you can access that the public can't are in the moot spire, just FYI, and then only if you've paid for peerage.

 

[Icosahedron]

Just an observation, but the 'public' doesn't have access to these forums, beyond the titles and first posts. Anything more than that, you have to be a logged-in registered member. Depends what you mean by 'public'.

 

[pendragonman]

Iccy, I am sure you are aware that some "public" is more equal than other "public".

 

[DaveChase]

Sooo, back on subject of miniature/wargame rules

Any takers?

Not saying Stiker is at all bad or even FF&S.

Maybe some flare adds to those games even.

Dave Chase