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Atmospheric Water Generator

What TL would you make these portable? Canteen sized even?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_water_generator

I'm thinking something that could be powered/recharged by a solar tarp.

The commercial personal ones range from small microwave oven sized to full sized water cooler sized - and pull up to 10L a day - on wall power.

The limits are the refrigeration power and the airflow unit.
You don't want to actually freeze the condenser - because then it dies.
You do want to be able to run it to temps between -10° C and 10° C - because that covers the breathable atmosphere ranges and allows maximum extraction. So you need a variable refrigeration unit, and a variable speed fan as well.

And refrigeration isn't exactly energetically cheap.

So need decent solar input.
 
What TL would you make these portable? Canteen sized even?.

Crazy powerful batteries, and a huge solar tarp.

Right about the solar still being unportable, while working, but this is tied down while charging.

Better may be batteries charged on a vehicle, and the unit produces, let's say, 12 l or so per charge. Hauling batteries is thus an improvement over hauling water, and recharging by solar could still be an option.

Someone smart who knows the capacities of Striker batteries might weigh in.
 
Crazy powerful batteries, and a huge solar tarp.

Right about the solar still being unportable, while working, but this is tied down while charging.

Better may be batteries charged on a vehicle, and the unit produces, let's say, 12 l or so per charge. Hauling batteries is thus an improvement over hauling water, and recharging by solar could still be an option.

Someone smart who knows the capacities of Striker batteries might weigh in.

I'll have to dig into the striker rules and see but MT batteries at TL 15 store 70 Kilowatt-Hours per liter of battery with a weight of 1kg costing 10,000 Cr. (Correction, MT errata says to divide the cost by 100, so 100 credits per liter/kg)

MT TL 12+ Solar Cells produce 81 Kilowatt-Hours per square meter for 2,000 Cr. Time frame is not mentioned but my guess would be a MT space combat turn.

Unless I'm reading things wrong.

On a vehicle such as an ATV I would definitely put a water generator on if it operated in a conducive atmosphere. The canteen idea was something for survival kits, particularly if you had to extricate yourself instead of waiting for rescue. In a desert environment you could set up a solar still and a solar tarp for recharging while you stayed in shelter, and then have vapor canteens filling up during the night as you moved. In a jungle environment you could move during the day but would need to take time along the way for recharging and again the solar still, in addition to collecting rainfall and purifying available water.
 
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The principle use of the BV is to heat ration pouches; the hot water is then used for making drinks. The BV has recently been designated "Cooking Vessel FV706656" or "CV". It runs off the 24 Volt electrical system of the vehicle and is manufactured by Electrothermal Engineering Ltd in Rochford, Essex. Vehicles fitted with the BV include Challenger 2 tanks, MAN trucks, and Warrior, Warthog, Mastiff, Jackal and Foxhound armoured fighting vehicles.[6]
 
Jungle environments are almost by definition (I said almost) humid. A simple fog fence overnight will get you your water, and that's stone-age tech to build. Purification is a different matter. Anyone want to posit what TL self-regenerating or nearly limitless use filters would be a thing?
 
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I'll have to dig into the striker rules and see but MT batteries at TL 15 store 70 Kilowatt-Hours per liter of battery with a weight of 1kg costing 10,000 Cr. (Correction, MT errata says to divide the cost by 100, so 100 credits per liter/kg)

MT TL 12+ Solar Cells produce 81 Kilowatt-Hours per square meter for 2,000 Cr. Time frame is not mentioned but my guess would be a MT space combat turn.

Unless I'm reading things wrong.

Firstly, that IS a heck of a battery! ("Crazy powerful"!) That's roughly 540 times more kWh/kg than a Lithium Ion, or about 150 times more than a Lithium-Thionyl Chloride at our humble TL7. There is no reason to discount these numbers, though, so I am using them. ;)

With such a battery, a 50 g battery, would provide a 2 liters of water from a AWG at current levels of efficiency (about 30%). If we assume that, even with the raise in tech levels, and miniaturizing the package, the efficiency would only double to 60% at TL15, that would lend 4 liters for a 50 g battery.

Now, the solar cells given are REALLY efficient. On Earth's surface, there are about 2000 W/m^2 under optimum conditions (2kW/m^2) If we assumed optimum conditions would last for 8 hours (they won't) then this would give 16kWh/m^2, at 100% efficiency. That means that the TL12 MT panels, if they are in fact producing about 80 kW, are operating at 500% efficiency, or they are in a location getting 20 times the insolation (w/w?) as the optimum of Earth's surface, and operating at 50% efficiency.

If they were giving about 80 kWh/space combat turn (15 min?), then this would be, on Earth's surface an efficiency of 16,000%. I don't know the numbers for MT, and I'm not trying to play "gothcha," but it seems something is missing. So, to try to fix it:

If we did assume a 80% efficiency, under not ideal, but average Earth conditions, then a 1 m^2 solar panel would get about 6.4 kWh. That would be more than enough to charge the 50 g battery, that would produce 4 liters. Indeed, the solar panel could charge two of the batteries in 4 hours of decent Earth sunshine. A lot of assumptions here, but I'm using the best numbers I can find. I would certainly agree that ATV's, military, and other expeditionary vehicles typically have AWG's installed, of various capacities. But here's what I get:

The LSP AWG415 is a TL 15 unit, that costs Cr 450. It is 1 kg empty in the 1 liter configuration, will produce 1 liter of water in conditions of 40% humidity in Standard atmosphere in 4 hours, and has a storage capacity of 1 liter. The speed of production will vary inversely with humidity and atmospheric pressure. The 50 g battery, costs 10 Cr, and will power the unit for 4 liters, at which point it must be recharged. The unit contains storage for 3 batteries other than the one in use, and will automatically switch to a charged one. The accessory pack for the unit includes: cables to connect it to standrd vehicular, starship, or residential power sources; a roll-up 1 m^2 solar panel that will charge two batteries in 4 to 12 hours under most conditions of solar exposure; a 2-liter rigid, 4 liter rigid and 4 liter bladder container; a belt case for the unit with the 1 liter container installed that also stores the solar panel and an additional 8 batteries; a larger case that contains the unit and all accessories, which can be used to contain and operate it in any configuration, including filling the entire 11 liters of containers; and 12 batteries. The entire package weighs 2kg, with all the containers empty.

The AWG115L is just the 1 liter configuration, with the belt case, 6 batteries, the solar panel, and an extra 1 liter bottle with a slightly smaller, second belt case. It costs Cr 280, has the same performance as the main unit, and is a favorite with outdoor enthusiasts, military personnel, and the like.

The LSP-AWG-1 canteen holds 1 liter, incorporates the 1 liter container, for Cr 5, and has a small accessory pouch that contains a small solar still, water purification tablets, and has room for AWG415 batteries, and if left in the sun will charge 1 battery in 240 hours. It is compatible with lower technology lines of LSP's AWG, down to the LSP AWG212.

Extra 1 liter containers cost Cr 2, 2 liter container cost Cr 3, and batteries 10 Cr each, or Cr 90 for a pack of 10.
 
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Firstly, that IS a heck of a battery! ("Crazy powerful"!) That's roughly 540 times more kWh/kg than a Lithium Ion, or about 150 times more than a Lithium-Thionyl Chloride at our humble TL7. There is no reason to discount these numbers, though, so I am using them. ;)
I've seen other analysis that show the batteries for every version of Traveller go beyond the ability of a chemical cell to hold or produce power. Most batteries can hold insane amounts of power.

The LSP AWG415 is a TL 15 unit, that costs Cr 450. It is 1 kg empty in the 1 liter configuration, will produce 1 liter of water in conditions of 40% humidity in Standard atmosphere in 4 hours, and has a storage capacity of 1 liter. The speed of production will vary inversely with humidity and atmospheric pressure. The 50 g battery, costs 10 Cr, and will power the unit for 4 liters, at which point it must be recharged. The unit contains storage for 3 batteries other than the one in use, and will automatically switch to a charged one. The accessory pack for the unit includes: cables to connect it to standrd vehicular, starship, or residential power sources; a roll-up 1 m^2 solar panel that will charge two batteries in 4 to 12 hours under most conditions of solar exposure; a 2-liter rigid, 4 liter rigid and 4 liter bladder container; a belt case for the unit with the 1 liter container installed that also stores the solar panel and an additional 8 batteries; a larger case that contains the unit and all accessories, which can be used to contain and operate it in any configuration, including filling the entire 7 liters of containers; and 12 batteries. The entire package weighs 2kg, with on the containers empty.

The AWG115L is just the 1 liter configuration, with the belt case, 6 batteries, the solar panel, and an extra 1 liter bottle with a slightly smaller, second belt case. It costs Cr 280, has the same performance as the main unit, and is a favorite with outdoor enthusiasts, military personnel, and the like.

The LSP-AWG-1 canteen holds 1 liter, incorporates the 1 liter container, for Cr 5, and has a small accessory pouch that contains a small solar still, water purification tablets, and has room for AWG415 batteries, and if left in the sun will charge 1 battery in 240 hours. It is compatible with lower technology lines of LSP's AWG, down to the LSP AWG212.

Extra 1 liter containers cost Cr 2, 2 liter container cost Cr 3, and batteries 10 Cr each, or Cr 90 for a pack of 10.

Can I have your permission to add these to the wiki?
 
Firstly, that IS a heck of a battery! ("Crazy powerful"!) That's roughly 540 times more kWh/kg than a Lithium Ion, or about 150 times more than a Lithium-Thionyl Chloride at our humble TL7. There is no reason to discount these numbers, though, so I am using them. ;)

With such a battery, a 50 g battery, would provide a 2 liters of water from a AWG at current levels of efficiency (about 30%). If we assume that, even with the raise in tech levels, and miniaturizing the package, the efficiency would only double to 60% at TL15, that would lend 4 liters for a 50 g battery.

Now, the solar cells given are REALLY efficient. On Earth's surface, there are about 2000 W/m^2 under optimum conditions (2kW/m^2) If we assumed optimum conditions would last for 8 hours (they won't) then this would give 16kWh/m^2, at 100% efficiency. That means that the TL12 MT panels, if they are in fact producing about 80 kW, are operating at 500% efficiency, or they are in a location getting 20 times the insolation (w/w?) as the optimum of Earth's surface, and operating at 50% efficiency.

If they were giving about 80 kWh/space combat turn (15 min?), then this would be, on Earth's surface an efficiency of 16,000%. I don't know the numbers for MT, and I'm not trying to play "gothcha," but it seems something is missing. So, to try to fix it:

If we did assume a 80% efficiency, under not ideal, but average Earth conditions, then a 1 m^2 solar panel would get about 6.4 kWh. That would be more than enough to charge the 50 g battery, that would produce 4 liters. Indeed, the solar panel could charge two of the batteries in 4 hours of decent Earth sunshine. A lot of assumptions here, but I'm using the best numbers I can find. I would certainly agree that ATV's, military, and other expeditionary vehicles typically have AWG's installed, of various capacities. But here's what I get:

The LSP AWG415 is a TL 15 unit, that costs Cr 450. It is 1 kg empty in the 1 liter configuration, will produce 1 liter of water in conditions of 40% humidity in Standard atmosphere in 4 hours, and has a storage capacity of 1 liter. The speed of production will vary inversely with humidity and atmospheric pressure. The 50 g battery, costs 10 Cr, and will power the unit for 4 liters, at which point it must be recharged. The unit contains storage for 3 batteries other than the one in use, and will automatically switch to a charged one. The accessory pack for the unit includes: cables to connect it to standrd vehicular, starship, or residential power sources; a roll-up 1 m^2 solar panel that will charge two batteries in 4 to 12 hours under most conditions of solar exposure; a 2-liter rigid, 4 liter rigid and 4 liter bladder container; a belt case for the unit with the 1 liter container installed that also stores the solar panel and an additional 8 batteries; a larger case that contains the unit and all accessories, which can be used to contain and operate it in any configuration, including filling the entire 11 liters of containers; and 12 batteries. The entire package weighs 2kg, with all the containers empty.

The AWG115L is just the 1 liter configuration, with the belt case, 6 batteries, the solar panel, and an extra 1 liter bottle with a slightly smaller, second belt case. It costs Cr 280, has the same performance as the main unit, and is a favorite with outdoor enthusiasts, military personnel, and the like.

The LSP-AWG-1 canteen holds 1 liter, incorporates the 1 liter container, for Cr 5, and has a small accessory pouch that contains a small solar still, water purification tablets, and has room for AWG415 batteries, and if left in the sun will charge 1 battery in 240 hours. It is compatible with lower technology lines of LSP's AWG, down to the LSP AWG212.

Extra 1 liter containers cost Cr 2, 2 liter container cost Cr 3, and batteries 10 Cr each, or Cr 90 for a pack of 10.

Nice stuff, thanks. I had no clue on the solar power issue. On the LSP-AWG-1 charging 1 battery in 240 hours, is that a miniature solar recharger on the canteen itself?
 
Nice stuff, thanks. I had no clue on the solar power issue. On the LSP-AWG-1 charging 1 battery in 240 hours, is that a miniature solar recharger on the canteen itself?

Yes, or in the fabric of the case more specifically. Water is the most critical part of life support, but it gets short shrift in the material. There's a lot more to do here. ;)
 
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