Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
You could put a seal on the barrel.
And demand a bond, repayable on departure.
And demand a bond, repayable on departure.
CT Only: The overwhelming utility of grav vehicles
- Thread starter Tobias
- Start date
Occurs to me for those high law level worlds there'd either be a highport or a way to safety space weapons while you're in their space. Maybe your turret comes with screws so they can send over a remotely operated drone with a large angle bracket to lock the turret down so it can't move or a large plate to bolt down over the aperture.
My father was a CID detective in the US Army back in the Viet Nam days. He had an interesting take on how he handled things. He'd tell people, "I have to come in and investigate this. If you let me in, I can ignore anything that doesn't apply to my investigation. If I have to come back with a warrant, I have to report everything I see." And of course he was essentially a military cop, and cops are allowed to lie, so if he spotted something really outrageous he could still act on it, but it gave him flexibility to focus on his investigation and incidentally learn things that might be useful in later investigations.
I had a friend, also military, who would conduct inspections and could pretty much tell when someone was hiding something by their behavior, and he'd tell the person, "Look, we both know it's there. If you point it out, I can say that you pointed it out and we can work with you. If you don't, I'll find it and you're screwed."
My father was a CID detective in the US Army back in the Viet Nam days. He had an interesting take on how he handled things. He'd tell people, "I have to come in and investigate this. If you let me in, I can ignore anything that doesn't apply to my investigation. If I have to come back with a warrant, I have to report everything I see." And of course he was essentially a military cop, and cops are allowed to lie, so if he spotted something really outrageous he could still act on it, but it gave him flexibility to focus on his investigation and incidentally learn things that might be useful in later investigations.
I had a friend, also military, who would conduct inspections and could pretty much tell when someone was hiding something by their behavior, and he'd tell the person, "Look, we both know it's there. If you point it out, I can say that you pointed it out and we can work with you. If you don't, I'll find it and you're screwed."
For the Starport, in most cases, EXTRALITY applies and that is Imperial Territory within the fence. It is like France has no say about what weapons are permitted inside the US Embassy (or the Belgian Embassy for that matter). It is only when you carry your gun OFF Embassy (or Starport) property and onto the world that local LL comes into play.
It's getting to and from the starport where life gets interesting. A sufficiently paranoid world is likely to have very strict rules about orbits, landing or take-off corridors, and what happens if a landing or launching ship deviates from them. Any spacecraft is a potential weapon.
To be fair, you were supposed to take the recoilless rifle off the bike before firing it.In terms of shotguns in Traveller, that's very much the last firearm you have to give up.
Starships can presumed to be armed, and it's not a resolved issue whether they can't do point to point dirtside.
On the other hand, it's quite clear if your gravitationally motivated scooter is packing heat.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
In theory, inertial compensation is active on technological level nine factor one manoeuvre drives.
Does that mean IYTU every armed merchant ship is deputised?
It sort of makes sense but only within a polity for that polity’s registered shipping. It creates a ‘ready-reserve’ of ships to free up (in theory) naval ships for other things rather than lower level interdiction or counter piracy.
Outside of single polity space there’d have to be a multi stellar organisation that the ships were deputised to, something the various polities would find trustworthy and who could punish bad behaviour from those who did use their armed ships for evil. Something like the Pilots Guild or Liaden Clans from the Liaden series.
The point is that to get to the starport you need to travel through space that is within the legal control of the planet below.
In the same terms you use, travelling with your service pistol from Charles de Gaulle to the US Embassy Paris is something the French government has a say on and something they would probably say something about (probably “Bon sang, cet américain a un pistolet, quelqu'un appelle les gendarmes”).
How this is dealt with in the real world is by a dizzying number of treaties and conventions and the occasional misuse of diplomatic mail pouches but these are for special circumstances (embassy workers, secret squirrel types and the like). The system in traveller appears to work as if every US citizen could go armed from the airport to the embassy as long as they pinkie promised not to go else where. If such a situation was to happen irl you can bet the French would limit where and how the us citizens could travel to her embassy and they’d likely have severe punishments to keep wandering Americans in line.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
And on TL7 ships, it says so in HG80.
The THIRD IMPERIUM in Traveller is built upon TRADE with the Imperium taking an iron fist in a velvet glove approach to CRUSH anything that interferes with interstellar trade. For the “chrome” of the Third Imperium OTU, that means a world can be as draconian in its policies as it wishes OUTSIDE the Starport fence, but nothing had better interfere with merchant ships traveling to and from that Starport with trade goods.
For NON-OTU games (which the rules also encourage and support), it can work however the Ref wants it to work.
I think the OTU game intent is a sort of dynamic tension between the Imperium and the Worlds that I see in some of the older “Classic Science Fiction” like the Dumarest novels era.
Yes, and how do you tell if the ship is going to land at the Starport, land elsewhere on your world or strafe the president for life’s summer palace? Transit corridors, flight paths and stated intent.
The Third Imperium’s own laws allow a world to enforce its own laws within a certain number of diameters of the world as long as they do not conflict with pre-existing Imperial Law. Part of the Imperial Law is free movement of trade, yes, but there are ways worlds can be draconian (or even moderately sensible) in treating shipping that doesn’t break Imperial Law.
Planets that restrict shipping to certain lanes, approaches etc and then enforce that with missiles aren’t restricting free trade. They’re allowing trade to continue while protecting their people from the risks of dissidents/spaceships crashing into tall buildings/pirates/insert excuse here/or spies. Any moderately competent career bureaucratic weasel should be able to find a dozen reasons why not only does the policy not breach Imperial Law it enhances it by protecting the rights of Sophonts.
This is part of the push and pull you describe between the Imperium and its member states. Even non-draconian states will have laws they enforce on landing spacecraft such as not flying through over military bases, through large cities with big buildings, not disturbing the ecological habitat and nesting spots of the lesser spotted shango bird etc etc
casquilho
SOC-13
As I was reading your post Chipla, I was thinking of the old, divided Berlin. Only a very small access in and out. Deviate and you could get shot. I also was thinking how cargo ships can be stopped for inspection before entering ports in lots of countries today.
While I do not believe an Imperial planet could block access to the Imperial Starport 100%, they could, as you say, require incoming and outgoing traffic to follow specific lanes like modern airports do today.
While I do not believe an Imperial planet could block access to the Imperial Starport 100%, they could, as you say, require incoming and outgoing traffic to follow specific lanes like modern airports do today.
I wasn’t looking to address the ship weapons, just the weapon carry/handy get in trouble devices, not the ones that will often end in TPK.
Armed vessels is pretty much a standard trope if not nearly demanded upon optional play. The milieu preOTU was clearly earn your way to weapons and arm up and get prizes and opportunities to get in more trouble.
As such this is more the sailing multinational island/colony era with armed cargo ships and privateers. You’ll have to decide how much frontier with pirates milieu you want.
To answer your question directly re IMTU I have near future nation states still exist under the Terran Confederation but not quite the OTU one, more like the UN from Above and Beyond. The Outer Space Treaty has expanded to mean all space outside Earth sovereign territory is international, colonies are ‘leased’ long term from the TC and so national law presides on that ground, but world councils/senates determine local affairs. There are grandfathered exceptions like Mars and Pronoia.
Ships are flagged to a nation which registers them and weapons and are held accountable for any actions/crimes taken.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
I'm going to add my thoughts to your excellent post.
I think of it like this, The Third Imperium is the Empire of Foundation, Dumarest was traveling through "it" after its fall.
their cut or else
, megacorporation profits, and the dividend paid to the nobility.
And the world government has a free hand in how to deal with ships that try to avoid the starport.
Always.
I think of it like this, The Third Imperium is the Empire of Foundation, Dumarest was traveling through "it" after its fall.
Except where such dealings would negatively impact the megacorporations' profits and, by extension, the "considerations" and other inducements paid to planetary authorities to discourage smuggling and other trade through channels the Imperium cannot monitor. For their own safety, of course.
I knew Dumarest was the wrong reference, but the correct Sci-Fi era. I remember reading one Short Story from about 1960 that had a protagonist "agent" that was a trouble-shooter for the Imperial Government that toppled world governments single-handed and women kept falling in love with that was SOOOO clearly an inspiration for Traveller. I just could not remember any of the details like the name of the story or the protagonist (so I could not look it up). It even seemed like it might be the "Foundation" universe, but had a very different feel from the Foundation books themselves. Almost a James Bond meets Buck Rogers meets Conan vibe (if THAT makes any sense). [He was a Nobleman, so he was trained as a master Swordsman, and a government spy that kept worlds in line at the fringe of the Imperium where enemies probed for weakness.]
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Sounds like Flandry.
Confirmed, if you meet Vargr.
Confirmed, if you meet Vargr.
Flandry sounds VERY familiar!
...
TIGER by the TAIL
by Poul Anderson
(January 1951)
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Marcatlas
SOC-12
Looking back on the age of sail when merchant ships carried cannon and entered foreign ports all the time. A lone merchant trying to enter a port and shoot it up would quickly become a dead merchant. Same in Trav I would think. The Port authority would have some emplacements that could fry a small ship if the area was prone to that kind of activity
casquilho
SOC-13
I agree. This is one of those situations where the frequency of it happening feels like it would be much lower than you may think. I mean you go in shooting and even other merchants will turn on you as well.
