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Back in the Rim: language, censorship, religion, rationalism

ld80062

SOC-9
In this post, I'm taking a closer look at my Solomani Rim. As usual, I take a special interest in religious developments in the area, so it might be wise to just move on if you're not interested in such things. Also, this post takes an implicitly moralistic, unPC bias: those who disagree are advised to read something more to their liking. (I'm sure there's an Aslan sex thread out there somewhere...)


The idea flow in this post:
* Solomani language: "We don't need no stinkng language police!"
* Censorship within the Confederation: how to please everybody
* Solomani libertines: doomed rebels of the Confederation
* Imperial deviants: psions, cybernetics and sentinent robots
* The spread of Solomani mores, the Spinward Marches echo, and the rebirth of the Vilani as active contenders for cultural supremacy
* The loss of Terra - religious and rationalistic viewpoints
* Solomani rationalism - conservative, moderate, and libertine. A.K.A. "How to survive in a Christian/Islamic pressure cooker"
* Solomani Party factions: "Oh, joy."

But first....

Essay question:

Various Vilani words have seeped into the English/Anglic/Galanglic language over the last 3,700 years. What happens when a purist faction of the Solomani Party decides to delete these terms from ALL languages spoken within the Confederation? How do their sympathizers in Imperial space react? How about the Solomani who are proud of their race, but not of the Confederation government?

IMTU, the Party has been trying to purify Rim Anglic language for fifty years now, with spotty results. A few Vilani terms have become archaic, and hard-core Party loyalists take pride in speaking "Party Anglic" or "Pure Anglic". Howevern, even most loyal Party members still use numerous Vilani terms in their daily speech: and a LOT of Vilani technical and social terms still have no Pure Anglic equivelant. Moreover, Anglic is based heavily on American English: the language naturally just grows and grabs whatever words and lingo it needs, no matter what the source - up to and including nonhuman languages. Moreover, the 'instinctual resistance to authority' all real Solomani have works against the Pure Speech movement.

In reaction, the Party is putting less emphasis on 'proper linguistic authority' like the Anglic Academy, Party Institutes, or the Confederation Universities, and instead putting more emphasis on taking underground and low-culture ' authentically Solomani' terms and using those words in place of the loathed Vilani words. This policy has has more success than the strict top-down approach, and is now being supplemented with neologisms from poets, philosophers, and scientists. A special emphasis is being placed on making Rim Anglic more 'sweet-sounding' 'graceful', 'elegant' and 'spiritual' to the ears, instead of the rather direct, "laconic to the point of brutal" language we have today. (1100 Imperial)

This movement is basically ignored by Imperial Solomani, except when they coin a cool new word. The Imperium offically lets this slide, but it is occasionally peeved.

* "Just how many words do they have for 'inferior being', anyways?"
* "Strange, how the word 'Earth' has become a synonym for 'Heaven'".
* "Be careful, your Majesty - the word 'emperor' is being redefined to include the concepts of tyrant, dictator, and stalinist - and to exclude the concepts of beneovence, wisdom, and justice."

***********************

Essay question:

As the Solomani Rim is more culturally authoritarian than the Imperium (due mainly to the Party), it's likely that they have censored various works from the Imperial side of the fence. Assuming a basically sympathetic population, how would they plan to enforce their ban on anti-Solomani and anti-Party works in a world of unbreakable algorythims and widespread, cheap (but slow) distribution of information? How can the Solomani Party enforce their restrictions, without triggering off the antiAuthority reflex of their populations? And - on the other side of the fence - how does the Imperium deal with Solomani viewpoints and propaganda (some obviously false, some 'politically incorrect' but true, and some being unfalsificable)?

While the Solomani Party is more authoritarian than the Imperial nobility, they are also more fragmented than the more culturally unified Imperium, due to 1) all those Vilani-baseline systems, and Vilani-influenced cultures 2) endless Solomani infighting/fragmentation/cultural mutation 3) instinctive Solomani suspicion of Authority, in contrast to instinctive Vilani support of Authority.

On the other hand, the Solomani are more accepting of 'internal informants' and government survelliance than the Imperials, and a large majority do believe in their racial superiority. After over a thousand years of this assumption, all Solomani religions, political ideologies and cultures have the racial superiority assumption 'baked in the mix' as it were.

The best way for the Party to play this is to encourage the Solomani people and subcultures to police themselves. Ensure that the restrictions have the broad support of most of the Solomani people, AND their leadership (governmental and otherwise). Insure that they have real imput in what the restrictions are in the first place, so they have an automatic buy-in. Make the restrictions compatible to the various major religions (esp the monotheists) and the conservative rationalists. The prime goal: "same rules, different styles."

***********************

Warning: Deviant sexuality and conservative religion are here addressed in a clearly unPC manner. Then again, the Solomani Confederation is NOT a Politically Correct organization.

Solomani libertine rationalists, by definition, will not tolerate any restrictions. As a minority of a minority, they can be isolated and mocked, but they should not be destroyed: they ARE Solomani, after all, and in the Party view this relationship is more important than their foolish, temporary delusions.

Note that there is a limit to this tolerance: interspecies sex is seen as a capital offence in every Solomani Confederation world. Legalizing interspecies sex and reproduction (with or without technological assistance) on your Confederation world invariably has ugly consequences.

As a point of comparison, the Imperium is more focused on the evils of psionics and cybernetics instead of sexual deviancy from the norm. (The idea of sentinent and independent robots are also look on with great distaste throughout the Imperium: the actual creation of sentinent robots is more likely to be hushed up than celebrated.)

This remains true in 1100, but is slowly changing in the Solomani Rim and the Old Expanses, with all those new Solomani worlds conquered in the Rim War. Cultural influence is a two-way street, especially with the powerful worlds of the Rim. (Numerous historical parallels apply here.)

A *very* distant echo of this can be felt in the Solomani-dominated Spinward Marches, due to their long history of hostility with the Vargr and increasing Aslan settler fleets. (Note that in the Marches, this is almost wholly race-based hostility, though, without the religious flavour found in the Rim. )

Also a factor: the already strong pre-Rim War Solomani influence in the Imperium, and the budding Vilani 'rebirth' as they abandon the last vestiges of the '1000-years of decadance' and return to enforcing the old pro-natal, pro-growth, strict Vilani heterosexual monogamous culture of the early Ziru Sirka. The Vilani will vigourously deny being influenced by Solomani culture, and also deny that they desire to compete with the Solomani demographically.

The Vilani would be lying on both counts.

IMTU, they have grown tired of always playing second fiddle to the Solomani, and - led by numerous Vilani noble houses and the Vilani megacorporations - are working to regain cultural dominance within their own home space. (They do not desire a 'racially pure Vilani Imperium' - a culturally pure one will do fine - but DO want to be the majority race again.)

***********************

Speaking of the Rim War: how did "Solomani culture" - something of a misnomer - react to the loss of Terra?

The numerous religous cultures see it as God's punishment for sin: as of 1100 Imperial, the major religious revivals following the limited defeat (or possibly, 'limited victory' - they did succesfully seceeded, after all) has largely run it's course, but the 'echo effects' are still going strong. The Solomani worlds are still more religious than they were pre-Rim War, and far more religious than they were during the "Imperial era", when pure-blood Solomani Emperors ruled the Imperium (which included the Solomani worlds).

The rationalistic Solomani cultures believe that the loss points to a weakness in the Solomani racial fitness to rule, and desire a 'genetic/cultural improvement program' to rectify this deficiency. They have been greatly stifled in this by their religious brethren: "The genetic code of Solomani humanity is sacred!" Also, there are major philosophical issues about the Solomani - the master race - creating an improved version of themselves.

As of 1100, a different approach - propagated by pro-science, (pro)Christian Solomani - has yielded interesting results: not creating any new abilities or attributes for Solomani humanity, but instead fixing various defects and deficiencies. No challange to God's authority is intended: they are merely removing the effects of the Fall and of sin, and bringing humanity closer to the original state. The short-term effect has been basically beneficial: long-term effects will be... interesting. Especially as fringe groups try to eliminate the ability to sin from the Solomani genetic code. (!!!)

***********************

Focus on: the rationalistic Solomani cultures

The rationalistic Solomani within the Confederation suffer from a bad political situation: a low population base (most of the older rationalistic systems were lost to the Imperium), poor demographics, an ugly history of strife with the religous Solomani, and a lack of a nonrational, nonnegotiable committment to Terra. They are also seen as more willing to 'betray the Cause' than their religious brethren, and more sympatheitc to Vilani utilitarian mores than the religious Solomani.

The more 'proreligious' rationalistic cultures have decided to work 'with the grain' of a pro-religious Confederation, instead of against it. They have proclaimed religion as "an inseperatable part of what it means to be Solomani", supported pronatal and pro-heterosexual policies, and publically apologized for various atrocities their ancestors committed 'in the distant past'. Privately, they see a lot of value in traditional religious mores, in a vaguely condecending way: "The right ideals for the wrong reasons." They also picture themselves as the beneovent leaders of ALL the Solomani - relgious and rationalistic - seeing religious Solomani as their good-hearted, well meaning, but slightly dim-witted brothers.

There are other possible responses to the intense cultural pressure-cooker of a Christian/Islamic
/monotheistic-dominated Solomani Confederation. The moderate rationalistic Solomani cultures tend to be 'more loyalist than the King'. Compared to the religious Solomani, they are generally more harsh to non-humans, more cold to the Vilani and mixed-blood humans, and more likely to put the Party and the Race as the supreme value, over their own families, cultures and homeworlds. They are more pronatal and proheterosexual than even the religious Solomani: "The Race MUST multiply!"

(Orthodox Christian have always had a place for celibates, unlike orthodox Judaism and Islam. The 'New monotheists', born during the Long Night, tend to follow the Christian lead.)

Unlike the monotheists, the moderate rationalists are willing to make heavy use of cloning to multiply the Race (and overcome their own bad demographic profile). Family life tends to be strongly downplayed (when not actually eliminated), replaced by State training and education. (The children tend to turn out damaged to some extent or another, but are very loyal to the Party and the Race - which is the main thing.)

Libertine rationalists automatically live 'on the edge'. Being anti-natal, anti-population growth, anti-relgious and prohomosexual, they are universally loathed by other Solomani: murders and executions are not uncommon outside of their home systems. Due to their horrible economic profile (national and personal debt loads, anyone?) and utter lack of allies, they have to rely on their head and a very realistic understanding of the psychology of their enemies to survive. (A strong military will only last so long, when ALL of your neighbours hate you.) Even so, the life span of these cultures is measured in decades (or mere months, if they publicly indulge in cross-species sex.) Libertines just have too many demographic, economic and social forces working against them.

The Party is willing to invite a few conservative rationalists into their inner circles - where they are greatly outnumbered by (pro)Chrisitans and (pro)Muslims. Surprisingly, these rationalists have more influence than you would guess, mainly acting as 'honest brokers' between the Christians/proChristians and the Muslims/proMuslims. While they are not fully trusted by anyone - nobody really believes in their 'neutrality' - they have not made any hardcore enemies, and do have some close allies.

The Party treats moderate rationalists with distain - "Really, the Total State concept is just *so* Twentieth-century!" Sure, they make dedicated and disposable clone troopers. But State-bred clone troopers are at once far more expensive to raise (government waste, anyone?), less mentally flexible, AND less mentally stable than hand-raised humans. Rationalist/racial fanaticism does have its advantages - but it is too fragile, too rigid, and frankly too stupid to survive a major defeat, or a deeply hostile environment (unlike Christianity, Judaism, and - to a notably lesser extent - Islam.)

On the other hand, the Party does tolerate their existance - and indirectly tries to shape their culture to a more family-based, more stable, and less 'brittle statist' foundation.

The religion of these worlds are left for the locals to decide: the Party strongly discourages "conversion by orbital bombardment", but allows conversion by missionaries, culture conquest, population invasion, or by conventional warfare. Large-scale genocide (of pure Solomani) is punished savagely, but ethnic cleansing - via mass expulsion - is permitted.

(Unoffical agreements between the main Solomani factions have made even medium-scale Solomani-on-Solomani genocide a rare event: oftentimes, the Party is able to nip it in the bud.)

The Party tends to use libertine rationalists as toys: these cultures exist for as long as they are useful. When it is no longer cost-effective to tolerate their existance, they are simply thrown to the numerous wolves to be ripped apart without mercy. Typically, the libertines try to prove their usefulness to the Party for as long as possible, but it never lasts: their goals are at direct cross-purposes with long-term Solomani survival, never mind Solomani mastery of the universe. The smarter ones work with the Imperium: when the game blows up, they have a place to run to, at least.

***********************

Internal Party divisions can be divided along several fault lines:
* Foreign relations: Imperial reunion/Pro-Imperial/Neutral/Realist/anti-Imperial/Terra Now!/Isolationist/Conquestator - Solomani racial/Conquestador - Solomani cultural/ Solomani racial Paternalist / Conquestador - economic/Conquestador - Christian (Crusader)/Conquestador - Islamic (Jihadist)/anti-Aslan/anti-Hiver
* Internal relations: Unitary/Federal/Strong Alliance/Weak Alliance/Military & Trade union/Member-state nationalist
* Religion: Christian/Islam/Hindu/Buddhist/Rationalist
* Location: Near-Imperial/Near-Aslan/Core Space/Frontier
* Solomani racial/cultural base: Anglo-American/Latin American/Indian/European/African/
Middle Eastern/Asian/
* Solomani race: Purist (religious)/Purist (rationalist)/Upgrader/Cultural union/Humanist (ie:pro-Vilani, Zhodani, minor human)/Terran (ie: pro-Vargr)/Percentage (ie: 60% Solomani blood is treated differently than 90% Solomani)/ Genociders - all nonhumans/Genociders - all nonSolomani

The Solomani Party carefully balances the major factions when possible:
* (pro)Christians and (pro)Muslims,
* pro-Imperial/Neutral/Realist/anti-Imperial
* Federal/Strong Alliance/Weak Alliance
* Core/near-Imperial
* African/Indian/Latin American
* Purist (religious)/Percentage/Humanist
 
Speaking of the Rim War: how did "Solomani culture" - something of a misnomer - react to the loss of Terra?

The numerous religous cultures see it as God's punishment for sin:

...

The rationalistic Solomani cultures believe that the loss points to a weakness in the Solomani racial fitness to rule, and desire a 'genetic/cultural improvement program' to rectify this deficiency.
the solomani could make a very good case that they were not conquered by the lesser races, but by other solomani who had forgotten where their true home is. the war on terra could be viewed as a civil war, with the bravery and sacrifice of both sides celebrated. any attempt to rectify "faults" within themselves would include an outreach to these lost bretheren in an attempt to bring them home.
 
I think it is quite a stretch to think that Islam or Christianity will survive that long. As major world religions, I give them 2 centuries, tops. As archaic holdovers, mayby 2 more centuries. After that, only in the history books.
 
PP,

Where have you been for the last 2000 years? Judaism and Zoroastrianism trace back over 2500 years and are still practiced in their original forms. Most Protestant sects have existed for over 400 years!

The real question is; how organized are these religions after several millenia? Are there still Popes, Iyatollahs, or Rabbis?
 
Well, you'd think in a rational technologically advanced society like the one we have today, there wouldn't be much room for any religion. But clearly you can't get rid of it that easily - it's still being used as an excuse for war, hatred, and bigotry. Even in supposedly "civilised", developed countries.

I suspect - nay, fear - that we're not going to be rid of religion in some form or another for a very long time, if ever. If nothing else, it provides a good excuse for governments to oppress people.
 
Hmmm, oppressive governments ... let's add the Khmer Rouge (atheists), Nazi Germany (Western mysticism), North Korean (atheists), Hussein's Iraq (Babylonian mysticism), Czarist Russia (mysticism), and Castro's Cuba (atheists).

I will give you Catholic Spain/Portugal during the 15th century as a gimme; but they only oppressed those they conquered, not their own people. Wait, don't count the Inquisition or the Crusades because I won't count the Rape of Nanking (by shinto buddists) and the North Vietnamese slaughter of American sympathizers after the fall of Saigon.

Your turn ...
 
What point are you trying to make here, exactly? Are you disagreeing with me or agreeing? Are you saying that governments don't have to be "religious" to oppress people because of their religion?

All of those governments that Ran mentioned oppressed and persecuted religious groups in their time. Many religious governments have persecuted their unwanted religious minorities too. In any case, it's a convenient justification to get rid of people that they don't like - whether it's the slaughter of the Jews in WWII by Nazi Germany or ethnic cleansing of Muslims in Bosnia. I can't see such a 'convenient justification' disappearing in the future.
 
Would Christianity and Islam survive to the 57th century? In its present incarnation, I think not. Both hinge on the notion that Humans on Earth are the be all end all, to speak generally, and take no account of the many divergent and non-human cultures in known space... would fundamentalists of all organized religions be regulated to becoming "quaint eccentrics"? Perhaps...

The inital post covers a LOT of ground, and well, in my opinion... but would the Solomani really change so little after so long a time? Even when they lose their cultural identity by losing Earth? Would the mere facts of technological advancement over the centuries alter their collective psychology? Would things like censorship and the limiting of social mores even be able to be enforced when dealing with such a vast area of space? If so How? Is the core government of the Confederation that bellicose? How does this impact individual worlds Governments? To have a "Confederation Minister" on every world would be a bit of a challenge, and would leave a lot of room for abuse... The destruction of languages on that scale would be an administrative nightmare, with dubious effectiveness... It reminds one of the Chinese Cultural Revolution, which was not what I would call a good use of wisdom... or good governing...

Interesting topic, but slightly "old fashioned" in flavor...
 
Would Christianity and Islam survive to the 57th century? In its present incarnation, I think not. Both hinge on the notion that Humans on Earth are the be all end all, to speak generally,
no, they don't.

it's interesting how people discuss, with a sigh and a wink, the irrationality of religion, and then in the next breath attempt to analyze it rationally.
 
I dont remember winking or sighing, milord... and since I have yet to see a modern faith that does not have a human or human-based diety (or dieties) I think the notion presented holds merit... A quick study of varied modern and ancient cosmological models bears this out... it is important to remember that only recently was the proof supplied that the Earth is not in the center of the universe, or that the sun revolves around it, for that matter... even by saying a religion is deiocentric is saying that it humanocentric... Vishnu may have many arms, but they are represented as Human Arms, Sir...

I also do not remember referring to religion as Irrational, but applying it in game terms... a preservation of objectivity would serve this discussion well...
 
I'm currently organizing and running a New Era PBEM campaign and one of the players wants to play a missionary. I thought the idea was great, in fact, I got so excited about it I may have changed his mind. I think religion has a huge place in science fiction and has played such a tiny part (Book in "Firefly", the preistly linguist in "A Mote in God's Eye" are about the only examples that come to mind although I'm sure there are more). You may not agree with anything the religions are teaching, but you can't deny that they have definitely had an impact on the past and seem to have a large impact on today's society. Can't really see any reason for that to end.
Pappy
 
Originally posted by eiladayn:
I think religion has a huge place in science fiction and has played such a tiny part (Book in "Firefly", the preistly linguist in "A Mote in God's Eye" are about the only examples that come to mind although I'm sure there are more).

What about the Zensunni of Dune and there is a very good one by Harry Harrison about a Christian Missionary don't recall the short story

You may not agree with anything the religions are teaching, but you can't deny that they have definitely had an impact on the past and seem to have a large impact on today's society. Can't really see any reason for that to end.
Pappy
IMTU the "Imperial" religion (one of many) is based around Christianity with heavy Gnostic/Budhist/Platonic overtones.

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I dont remember winking or sighing, milord... and since I have yet to see a modern faith that does not have a human or human-based diety (or dieties) I think the notion presented holds merit... A quick study of varied modern and ancient cosmological models bears this out... it is important to remember that only recently was the proof supplied that the Earth is not in the center of the universe, or that the sun revolves around it, for that matter... even by saying a religion is deiocentric is saying that it humanocentric... Vishnu may have many arms, but they are represented as Human Arms, Sir...

I also do not remember referring to religion as Irrational, but applying it in game terms... a preservation of objectivity would serve this discussion well...
as opposed to a preservation of opinion? the reduction of religion to mere scientific ignorance is the wink and the sigh, sir. it is the unspoken statement that religion has no place in any "rational", educated mind or culture. while that opinion may be popular and widespread, one is not less objective for holding another view.

as for the religions in question, the notion that they hinge on the notion that humans on earth are the be all end all, even speaking generally, holds no merit.

in game terms, the earth churches could view the sudden revealing of a vast human population as an opportunity for evangelism (or jihad). the decadence of vilani culture, accompanied by its collapse, would provide fertile grounds for the terran missionaries of the conquering fleets. speaking rationally and objectively the terran churches at least would be interested in the sudden increase in church donations. in addition there would be numerous colony efforts by separatists, heretics, protestants, and other displaced sects who would see the sudden appearance of space ships and thousands of worlds as the opportunity they need. during the long night the churches might be the only social and cultural structures left standing, and so would greatly influence each world's survival and subsequent development. their presence and influence in the third imperium would be widespread and prominent, many nobles would have religious titles and duties, and the evangelist/jihad spirit ought to survive in many worlds.
 
I'm currently organizing and running a New Era PBEM campaign and one of the players wants to play a missionary. I thought the idea was great, in fact, I got so excited about it I may have changed his mind.
(laugh) now there's a career to add to "citizens of the imperium".
 
Lord Flykiller, before the hackles go up any further, I would like to calmly state that I was not denying that organized religions aren't a strong factor of a society, merely that they would change over time, as they always have... doctrine may remain, but adapts itself to a given societies needs... which is why there are several degrees and kinds of the larger types...

If, for example, I wanted to convert a vegan to Space Christianity, I would find the line "and God created MAN in his own Image" a bit of a stumbling block where my potential convert was concerned, no?

I leave the debate of the rationality or validity of organized religion to the Theologians...
 
I think it is quite a stretch to think that Islam or Christianity will survive that long. As major world religions, I give them 2 centuries, tops. As archaic holdovers, mayby 2 more centuries. After that, only in the history books.
I think Voltaire said something to that effect… about 200 years ago. ;)
If, for example, I wanted to convert a vegan to Space Christianity, I would find the line "and God created MAN in his own Image" a bit of a stumbling block where my potential convert was concerned, no?
Hmmmm, strictly speaking, the stumbling block isn't creation. It is the provision of salvation that pointedly excludes beings other than humans.

I'm with Brin on one point: man will probably uplift presentient species on Earth before we ever encounter extraterrestrial intelligence. The role of Christianity and other religions regarding and among such will be explored long before the OTU settings.

Niven had an interesting take on the impact of human religion on non-human culture. Suffering defeat in their wars against the "inferior" humans, a few Kzin "heretics" came to believe that the God so many humans believed in was both real and on the humans' side.
 
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