balkanized worlds
- Thread starter parmasson
- Start date
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
Well, Kurega..
They could all have down-side starports, and there is a single imperial Orbital one as well--letting "neutral ground" / XT stand in space as well.
They could all have down-side starports, and there is a single imperial Orbital one as well--letting "neutral ground" / XT stand in space as well.
KG,
Again, that is what the old JTAS 'Skyport Authority' article implies and what GT:Starports actually says.
The Imperium is going to operate one public port in a system. (The high and down ports work together and so get counted together as 'one'.) There won't be a SPA port for Power A, Power B, Power C, and so forth. One port for the system and that port is unabashedly neutral. (Whether the Imperial nobles are neutral is another question.) Just how the port is situated is going to depend on what the local political climate is like when the port was built.
If we have two or more powers at each other's throats in a hot Cold War, the port isn't going to be built on anyone's territory. We'll either see a port that a 'free city' safely tucked away in some neutral power; i.e. Downport Geneva Switzerland, or we'll see the port primarily in orbit. The Imperium is not going to let the port's 'host' polity play embargo games with cargos destined for other polities. That means the host polity is 'swiss' or the port is in orbit.
Of course, that decision was made when the port was built and things change. The peaceful balkanized world of three centuries ago may now have a five-way cold war going and that multi-MCr SPA donwport is now sitting inside the territory of one of the squabbling powers.
Ooops.
Both JTAS and GT mention host polities getting nasty about a port's presence too.
Have fun,
Bill
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
One could KG, (nods to Bill C)
...even argue the mere right to where the Imperial, SPA-run port sits could politically balkanize a world!
Or,if things had changed, as Bill is suggesting (and likely might I add) where it rests now has caused the balkanization and emergence of this "Swedish-Swiss area".
...even argue the mere right to where the Imperial, SPA-run port sits could politically balkanize a world!
Or,if things had changed, as Bill is suggesting (and likely might I add) where it rests now has caused the balkanization and emergence of this "Swedish-Swiss area".
Another reason for a balkanized world is simply that the contact points between various polities are extremily limited, say by geography, say a world like Perm with huge mountain ranges that isolate the various valley civilizations with limited trade.
Another possible balkanization is between dry and wet. Human settlers on the land and either a native ocean species or modified humans who do not use the land at all.
First Nations, why in the world do people act as if the American Indian nations were peaceful, nice and perfect. Even before the white man arrived, even the civilized tribes fought each other, often committing genocide.
Another possible balkanization is between dry and wet. Human settlers on the land and either a native ocean species or modified humans who do not use the land at all.
First Nations, why in the world do people act as if the American Indian nations were peaceful, nice and perfect. Even before the white man arrived, even the civilized tribes fought each other, often committing genocide.
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
Good Point Lochlaber!
Or say, EFATE/Regina/SM... Franklin Downport--not an orbital one, the threat of the uprising (pro-Zhodani & psionics) there brought about the 5th Frontier War.
This is an an example that despite TL-13, the rulers decided the Starport would NOT be orbital, and allow their policing/ monitoring of the port to work hand in hand with the SPA.
(Sorry, not a balkanized world, but rather an example where the port was downside, not orbitally placed, my pardon, not a derailment attempt).
Or say, EFATE/Regina/SM... Franklin Downport--not an orbital one, the threat of the uprising (pro-Zhodani & psionics) there brought about the 5th Frontier War.
This is an an example that despite TL-13, the rulers decided the Starport would NOT be orbital, and allow their policing/ monitoring of the port to work hand in hand with the SPA.
(Sorry, not a balkanized world, but rather an example where the port was downside, not orbitally placed, my pardon, not a derailment attempt).
B
Black Globe Generator
Guest
You can also choose to ignore GT: Starports and the "implied" Imperial control of starports in Skyport Authority and make the majority of them locally owned and operated, subject to Imperial standards of operation and extrality, and inspected by the IISS for compliance, as is the case IMTU.
I also have balkanized worlds where you have corporate ownership alongside local control, such as a continent that is owned, operated, and governed by LSP and another continent that is a colony administered by a colonial council (self-perpetuating oligarchy), with an autonomous Imperial barony as an inholding among the colonists. Three governments, all with very different sources of legitimacy.
I admit I like balkanized worlds because of the variety they offer.
Oh, and just so you don't think I have a hearts-and-flowers Traveller universe ("H&FTU"), the planet Antrim, a balkanized neighbor of Converse, is bitterly divided between the larger but poorer Antrim Exploration and Development Authority and the smaller, richer Crumlin Independent Mining District, which seceded from AEDA with the backing of Consolidated Energetics and a large mercenary force.
(Edited to fix a couple of errors.)
If they have more to gain by cooperation or more to lose by conflict, then yes, I have no problem accepting that.
In the case of Converse, there are seven small independents, so yes, the actual number of "polities" on the planet comes to nine.
I also have balkanized worlds where you have corporate ownership alongside local control, such as a continent that is owned, operated, and governed by LSP and another continent that is a colony administered by a colonial council (self-perpetuating oligarchy), with an autonomous Imperial barony as an inholding among the colonists. Three governments, all with very different sources of legitimacy.
I admit I like balkanized worlds because of the variety they offer.
Oh, and just so you don't think I have a hearts-and-flowers Traveller universe ("H&FTU"), the planet Antrim, a balkanized neighbor of Converse, is bitterly divided between the larger but poorer Antrim Exploration and Development Authority and the smaller, richer Crumlin Independent Mining District, which seceded from AEDA with the backing of Consolidated Energetics and a large mercenary force.
(Edited to fix a couple of errors.)
archhealer
SOC-12
An earlier post implied that TL is directly related to pop level; I disagree. There are plenty of reasons why TL and population might be mismatched. For example, a TL1 world witha population of between 100 and 1,000. Not likely, and certainly not stable, but not impossibe. A failed colony, with the survivors holed up in a rough compound built out of a cave system,a nd without the benefeits of technology.
Or, for super high TLs with only tiny populations, they could be research colonies. For low TLs with high populations, could be a vacation world or hunting reserve, no tech allowed beyond the starport.
Balkanized worlds are a huge pain though. I always ahve trouble figuring out the law codes, trade balance, etc. of each nation, makes things very confusing.
Or, for super high TLs with only tiny populations, they could be research colonies. For low TLs with high populations, could be a vacation world or hunting reserve, no tech allowed beyond the starport.
Balkanized worlds are a huge pain though. I always ahve trouble figuring out the law codes, trade balance, etc. of each nation, makes things very confusing.
Even a low tech level planet of reasonable habitability could easily have a population of millions. According to my texts, earth around 100 BCE, had a population of maybe 30 million people. Heck, the Roman Empire had a population of several millions, then add China and the Indian Sub-continent.
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
==================================================
Archhealer-, If I may be of some service to your dilemma here, by way of using the below data from GDW'sTNE-Path of Tears, page 93 (dead tree version):
Planets w/ High pop (Code 9-B)
* 50% of pop divided among 1d6 states
* 25% of pop divided among 1d6 states
* 25% of pop divided among 1d20 states
Planets w/ Moderate pop (Code 6-8)
* 50% of pop divided among 1d6 states
* 25% of pop divided among 1d6 states
* 25% of pop divided among 1d10 states
Planets w/ Low-Moderate pop (Code 5-4)
* 50% of pop divided among 1d6 states
* 50% of pop divided among 1d10 states
Planets w/ Low-pop (Code 3-1)
* 100% of pop divided among 1d6 states
As for Basic government profiles (again pages 93-94, PoT):
*Corruption (High/ Moderate/ Low) susceptibe to bribery, kickbacks, graft, etc..
*Talent (High/ Moderate/ Low) are they the best/ brilliant, or check-the block vote getters?
*Cruelty (High/ Moderate/ Low) Cruelty vs. their citizenry or others imprisoned.
*Aggression (High/ Moderate/ Low) Their views vs. neighboring states as in war-coldwar-peaceful.
*Paranoia/Xenophobia (High/ Moderate/ Low)-Do they think rival states are out to get them; & are they isolationists?
*Administration (High/ Moderate/ Low)-How efficient is the state's govt. run to the needs of its people?
*Diplomacy (High/ Moderate/ Low)-the leader(s) ability to persuade other nations by peaceful means.
*Intrigue (High/ Moderate/ Low)-This can cover internal political wrangling to espionage.
*Military Strategy (High/ Moderate/ Low)-This show how well nation/ or leader(s) anticipates military moves by rival states/ leaders.
*Military Tactics (High/ Moderate/ Low)-This covers how well trained, prepared,& equipped their armed forces are vs. external threats to nation.
*Leadership (High/ Moderate/ Low)-the effectiveness of the state's leader(s), & their ability to train successors.
That ought to be a useful set of tables for you to utilize no matter what flavor of traveller you prefer.
Recall now, that UWP LL is the planetary average on such worlds where the majority enjoy the UWP listed TL. Thus if your major states enjoy TL6, with over half the planet's pop, what's to say the lesser, more numerous states enjoy higher or lower TL? Their TL isn't shared by the rest of the world, thus it is not reflected on the planet's listed UWP!
Same goes for additional starports--the BEST/ most numerous class of starport is listed in the UWP--whose to say the smaller states do not have (-1 class of) a starport themselves?
Only you, the GM, dude.
Enjoy!
[edited for spelling]
TheEngineer
SOC-14 1K
My history books tell about 200-250 million people on earth at the end of bronce age.
Additionally I found this site:
http://www.worldhistorysite.com/population.html
Though there naturally is a relation between technological level of a society and population, but IMHO even low TL agricultural methods are able to sustain Traveller pop levels 8 or 9 (an approriate environment given).
Additionally I found this site:
http://www.worldhistorysite.com/population.html
Though there naturally is a relation between technological level of a society and population, but IMHO even low TL agricultural methods are able to sustain Traveller pop levels 8 or 9 (an approriate environment given).
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
IMTU which is currently a TNE-era campaign in the Subsectors L, O, & P of the Reft Sector circa 1210, balkanization is common as well.
IMTU this is due to refugees from the Doomed trade era, as well as planetary tech lost (communication/ transportation) during the collapse.
Civil strife? This is the result of that, yes in some cases. One of my planets has ten nations, yet a population of only 13 million folks on it. It is a dry world (hydropshere 3), so water rights squabbles are frequently sharp, and agriculture depends heavily on irrigation.
Complicating some matters are also the seeding of Jonkereen (a geneered desert dwelling minor race of humaniti) from the 3rd Imperial era here (deus ex-machina on my part), who are naturally inclined to co-operate among themselves, but xenophobic of others (humaniti, vargr, etc).
This example planet never lost technology level 6, being a backwater Non industrial world to begin with in a back water titular duchy in the first place, so balkanization based on Tech has not occurred, save in the Jonkereen's case, who have removed themselves from the cities & towns to the wastelands, and exist at TL-4 on a tribal level.
As they comprise on 10% of the world's pop, this doesn't affect the UWP of TL-6.
The ethnicity of the survivors has balkanized the world into three mini-super powers of 1.5 million each: A Vilani-speaking ethnic state; a Vargr-only ethnic state; And a Mixed-Vilani-Solomani ethnic state--each has a C-class downport. The remaining five smaller states (two are Vargr-Human mixed (1 with Vilani & Vargr; 1 with Solomani & Vargr-each satellite states of the human-'Big 3'), these all have a D-class starport each.
Each nation competes for the Free Trader and major stellar mercantile planet ARGUS (2536/Moibin/Reft)'s traffic.
Another example of IMTU balkanization is tech level. Another planet where life has gone on has survivors who have existed at their hard Times collapse level of TL-7 on an exotic amosphere world. ARGUS has her Mercantile mits in salvaging the TL-13 mining machinery off this world--her salvage colony, which rivals the survivors, is TL-8 (But due to planetary geography, they are on seperate islands).
IMTU also--there is a planet that has now (thanks to having nothing Vampire fleets would want technologically in the first place!) at TL4 & TL3 balkanized after its population increase to 1 billion over this 80 year period.
The balkanization here is based on technophobia--the survivors of those who landed here in the collapse, and doomed trade of 1124-28 schismed this pastoral world into a Luddite-Amish style world. (Think Electricity is of the devil!--carries AI-Virus!). And so, there are several small TL-4, and TL-5 states, amidst an overwhelming pacifistic religiously strict TL3 planet. The former E-class starport is now rated X (no ⌧ implied here--PG-13ium guys
-class, and starships landing here are shunned.The TL4 states have managed to maintain their original beliefs; the TL5 state (made up of these newcomers of 80+ years ago) now makes basic machines, firearms, etc. But they do not open a starport for fear of the majority setting aside their pacifism and either boycotting or taking action against them with mob-violence.
IMTU KG, there is also a low populated desert world that is balkanized between two tribes--one of entirely Jonkereen-humans, the the other of the descendants of those humans who managed to get past the genetic infertility rates, known in-game as Ma'Sinn (the Chosen, literally). They deal with any outsider starships. They peacefully co-exist, for their uniting force is against raiding Vampire-ships looking for high tech salvage here.
Hope this helps.
Actually the Imperial Starport can behave quite easily as one of the Balkanized polities.
Another option is to have intrigue between the balkanized polities take place within a Starport. There would be wars-of-assasins, attempts to bribe Imperial officials and so on.
Which leads to the possibility of a Traveller "Untouchables."
Another option is to have intrigue between the balkanized polities take place within a Starport. There would be wars-of-assasins, attempts to bribe Imperial officials and so on.
Which leads to the possibility of a Traveller "Untouchables."
Balkanized also does not preclude power sharing relationships with larger authorities. Look at the Balkans ie. former Yugoslavia & Albania, some of the successor states agree to cooperate with International Non Governmental Organizations & International Governmental Organizations and supranational alliances eg. EU & NATO whilst others firmly do not. These often take the form of temporary long term leases which become defacto law.
