BCS Discussion (Fall 2022) (<HG79)
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PLAYING WITH DAMAGE 1: Hit Boxes
Hit Boxes, I think, are like the Universal Personality Profile. Instead of tracking damage on every component, you track damage across a few broad capabilities.
SHIP SIZE could dictate how many points you have to spread around. Each hit box takes, say, one to six hits, depending on the ship design. If any one box is reduced to zero, the ship is OOA, much like knocking out a character.
TYPES OF HIT BOXES.
WEAPONS: damage makes your weapons less effective.
DEFENSE: hurts defenses such as Armor and screens.
COMMAND: hurts the crew's effectiveness. Could represent actual crew numbers, their experience level, number of shifts, frozen watch, etc. Not sure how this would manifest itself?
ENGINEERING: hurts maneuver and jump, as well as fuel and fuel systems.
HULL: hurts streamlining and, perhaps, integrity.
Hit Boxes, I think, are like the Universal Personality Profile. Instead of tracking damage on every component, you track damage across a few broad capabilities.
SHIP SIZE could dictate how many points you have to spread around. Each hit box takes, say, one to six hits, depending on the ship design. If any one box is reduced to zero, the ship is OOA, much like knocking out a character.
TYPES OF HIT BOXES.
WEAPONS: damage makes your weapons less effective.
DEFENSE: hurts defenses such as Armor and screens.
COMMAND: hurts the crew's effectiveness. Could represent actual crew numbers, their experience level, number of shifts, frozen watch, etc. Not sure how this would manifest itself?
ENGINEERING: hurts maneuver and jump, as well as fuel and fuel systems.
HULL: hurts streamlining and, perhaps, integrity.
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Devil's Advocate here; WHY? A fighter with the biggest energy weapon it can carry is effective a ship with a spinal mount...
Also that was a thing in TNE.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Here is a thought, if we are commanding one or more capitals should all the rolls be made by 'you'.
As well as rolling for penetration and damage results when we attack should we also get to roll for our defences when resisting attack?
In a multiplayer game each player could be on the same side or on opposing sides.
Do we want a 'command console' for our BCSs that we can move tokens on, and a place for cards?
As well as rolling for penetration and damage results when we attack should we also get to roll for our defences when resisting attack?
In a multiplayer game each player could be on the same side or on opposing sides.
Do we want a 'command console' for our BCSs that we can move tokens on, and a place for cards?
BCS PROFILE: OPS - SEC DEF ENG CAR BOA - LIN
The more I think about it, the more I like the split between (a) the Universal Personality Profile and (b) Equipment. I think the UPP is not what a character 'has'; it is more like what a character 'is'.
Think of something halfway between HG1 or HG2's critical hits table, and the counter values in Imperium or Fifth Frontier War. Except the BCSP serves two purposes: it's a set of DMs used by a ship's equipment during combat, and it's a way of managing damage to the ship.
So I propose characteristics that a starship 'is'.
Spines use Line. Strategic tasks also use Line.
Bays use Secondary.
Barbettes, Turrets, Screens, Dampers, Armor and so on use Defense.
All of the drives use Engines.
Troops use Boarding.
I have no idea what might use Operations. The bridge currently isn't used in ship combat. Should it be?
The characteristics are DMs on ship tasks. For example, if this were a High Guard metric, then you add Line to a Spine's attack roll ... if we're rolling 2D above some number to penetrate defenses.
The characteristics are what receive damage in ship combat. I suppose there are two ways that could work:
(1) They are reduced, via attrition, as combat moves along, with a corresponding decrease in capability. When one is reduced to zero, the ship is OOA.
(2) They are simple targets: if damage from a hit reaches or exceeds this value, then the ship is OOA.
This gets us several things.
The more I think about it, the more I like the split between (a) the Universal Personality Profile and (b) Equipment. I think the UPP is not what a character 'has'; it is more like what a character 'is'.
Think of something halfway between HG1 or HG2's critical hits table, and the counter values in Imperium or Fifth Frontier War. Except the BCSP serves two purposes: it's a set of DMs used by a ship's equipment during combat, and it's a way of managing damage to the ship.
So I propose characteristics that a starship 'is'.
- Ops. This is the quality of the ship's control stations.
- Second. This is the ship's ability to protect against smaller vessels.
- Defend. This is the ship's ability to absorb or deflect damage.
- Engine. This is the quality of the ship's drives and engine room.
- Carry. This is the ship's ability to carry smaller craft.
- Board. This is the ship's ability to board, or protect against being boarded.
- Line. This is the ship's ability to fight in the line of battle, and project power generally.
Spines use Line. Strategic tasks also use Line.
Bays use Secondary.
Barbettes, Turrets, Screens, Dampers, Armor and so on use Defense.
All of the drives use Engines.
Troops use Boarding.
I have no idea what might use Operations. The bridge currently isn't used in ship combat. Should it be?
The characteristics are DMs on ship tasks. For example, if this were a High Guard metric, then you add Line to a Spine's attack roll ... if we're rolling 2D above some number to penetrate defenses.
The characteristics are what receive damage in ship combat. I suppose there are two ways that could work:
(1) They are reduced, via attrition, as combat moves along, with a corresponding decrease in capability. When one is reduced to zero, the ship is OOA.
(2) They are simple targets: if damage from a hit reaches or exceeds this value, then the ship is OOA.
This gets us several things.
- We leverage Traveller's UPP + skill trope.
- Damage location is 1D (Ops, Second, Defend, Engine, Carry, Board, Line). DM+1 for spines.
- Ships become a bit more like characters.
- Equipment change-out only partly changes the ship's abilities.
- Ship design becomes more point-buy based, and subsequently
- Ship size probably maps to the number of points allocated to characteristics.
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mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Opps could include electronic warfare capability and sensors.
For some reason I posted this in the Drake Equation thread. The mind is a terrible thing.
So, let me ask this.
Given all that's said here, how does Brilliant Lances fall short?
Let's disregard the design system for the moment, how does BL not live up to these requirements?
It has all of these things. Big guns, little guns, armor, "agility", "power points", missiles, point defense, ECM, ECCM, sensors, big hits crit small ship. Really big hits crit really big ships.
It has damage boxes, it can accommodate multiple systems, redundant systems, multiple spinals, etc.
If you want to just line fleets up ala HG and Let Fly, I'm sure it can manage that as well. Simplify the movement system, sure. Maybe Master Fire Directors are a bit fiddly, fine -- yank 'em out. Or line them up ala Battle Rider and crit each other to death.
Not suggesting its perfect, but seems to be the closest thing to a foundation that we have that can be tweaked vs just starting from scratch.
Because, lets be clear, this is not a "take LBB combat and 'fix' it", this is a goal driven design of a new combat system. The bathwater is gone, and the baby is clinging to the edge of the tub.
So, let me ask this.
Given all that's said here, how does Brilliant Lances fall short?
Let's disregard the design system for the moment, how does BL not live up to these requirements?
It has all of these things. Big guns, little guns, armor, "agility", "power points", missiles, point defense, ECM, ECCM, sensors, big hits crit small ship. Really big hits crit really big ships.
It has damage boxes, it can accommodate multiple systems, redundant systems, multiple spinals, etc.
If you want to just line fleets up ala HG and Let Fly, I'm sure it can manage that as well. Simplify the movement system, sure. Maybe Master Fire Directors are a bit fiddly, fine -- yank 'em out. Or line them up ala Battle Rider and crit each other to death.
Not suggesting its perfect, but seems to be the closest thing to a foundation that we have that can be tweaked vs just starting from scratch.
Because, lets be clear, this is not a "take LBB combat and 'fix' it", this is a goal driven design of a new combat system. The bathwater is gone, and the baby is clinging to the edge of the tub.
It's worth trying out. Actually, both BL and Battle Rider are worth looking at.
Using the BCS Profile
Bear with me. This is me trying to give "characteristics" to ships, especially for Big Ship combat.
At the moment this is just a basic core mechanic that I need to try out against a few scenarios.
This idea grew out of the Computer rating in High Guard, and the "ship size DM" Mike Wightman was thinking about with HG79.
What it is, is that you get characteristic points based on the ship's hull tonnage. As a test, let's say you get points almost equal to the fourth root of the hull in tons. That works out from 3 points up to 30 points or so, and you divide them up among your seven characteristics.
You get these points AFTER you know the tonnage of your ship. So I think normally you would select the payload tonnage, then select the drives, bridge, and armor percentages, determine the ship's volume, and then you know how many points you have to divide among the ship's characteristics.
The characteristics have multiple uses, just like the UPP's characteristics. For example, ENG -- the engineering capability -- doubles as initiative during combat. A higher value goes before a lower. And LIN serves in strategic tasks after one combat is over, and before the next one in the campaign begins.
In other words, the results of one battle can and do affect the setup to the next battle. This sort of campaign play seems to be more satisfying to me than a plain slug-fest. Although slugfests are the way we test systems out.
Anyway, these characteristics are DMs, added to attack rolls. When you attack with your factor T spine, you add your LIN score, minus the defender's DEF score, to that attack. If that sounds vaguely familiar, it is -- it's the Computer Delta, partly adapted from High Guard.
Also, like the UPP, they indicate how much damage it takes to put the ship Out Of Action. I think it may be a damage track.
The points table works out kind of like this:
So you build your ship like normal, selecting a spine, selecting factors of other weapon types based on tonnage and TL, getting defenses, armor, drives, troops, and so on.
Then you attack as in High Guard, attempting to penetrate the layers of defense, except you use the BCS Profile for DMs instead of things like Computer number. You add the appropriate DM to your attack roll -- LIN for a spine, SEC for secondary battery factors, minus the defender's DEF.
If your attack penetrates, then you roll 1D against the BCS Profile to see what capability has been damaged, DM+1 if you're attacking with a spine. Decrement that target characteristic. If the target characteristic is now below zero, the ship is Out Of Action, and the crew doubtless should be thinking about ways to effect repairs (I assume there are rules for that).
Bear with me. This is me trying to give "characteristics" to ships, especially for Big Ship combat.
At the moment this is just a basic core mechanic that I need to try out against a few scenarios.
- It doesn't yet handle radiation damage.
- It doesn't yet account for interior explosions.
- There's no rule yet for how to make a ship explode.
This idea grew out of the Computer rating in High Guard, and the "ship size DM" Mike Wightman was thinking about with HG79.
What it is, is that you get characteristic points based on the ship's hull tonnage. As a test, let's say you get points almost equal to the fourth root of the hull in tons. That works out from 3 points up to 30 points or so, and you divide them up among your seven characteristics.
You get these points AFTER you know the tonnage of your ship. So I think normally you would select the payload tonnage, then select the drives, bridge, and armor percentages, determine the ship's volume, and then you know how many points you have to divide among the ship's characteristics.
The characteristics have multiple uses, just like the UPP's characteristics. For example, ENG -- the engineering capability -- doubles as initiative during combat. A higher value goes before a lower. And LIN serves in strategic tasks after one combat is over, and before the next one in the campaign begins.
In other words, the results of one battle can and do affect the setup to the next battle. This sort of campaign play seems to be more satisfying to me than a plain slug-fest. Although slugfests are the way we test systems out.
Anyway, these characteristics are DMs, added to attack rolls. When you attack with your factor T spine, you add your LIN score, minus the defender's DEF score, to that attack. If that sounds vaguely familiar, it is -- it's the Computer Delta, partly adapted from High Guard.
Also, like the UPP, they indicate how much damage it takes to put the ship Out Of Action. I think it may be a damage track.
The points table works out kind of like this:
Code:
Tons. Points. Tons. Points Tons. Points
100. 3 30k. 13 300k. 23
300. 4 40k. 14 350k. 24
700. 5 50k. 15 400k. 25
1200. 6 65k. 16 450k. 26
2400. 7 80k. 17 540k. 27
4000. 8 100k. 18 620k. 28
6500. 9 130k. 19 700k. 29
10k. 10 160k. 20 800k. 30
15k. 11 200k. 21 1M. 31
20k. 12 250k. 22So you build your ship like normal, selecting a spine, selecting factors of other weapon types based on tonnage and TL, getting defenses, armor, drives, troops, and so on.
Then you attack as in High Guard, attempting to penetrate the layers of defense, except you use the BCS Profile for DMs instead of things like Computer number. You add the appropriate DM to your attack roll -- LIN for a spine, SEC for secondary battery factors, minus the defender's DEF.
If your attack penetrates, then you roll 1D against the BCS Profile to see what capability has been damaged, DM+1 if you're attacking with a spine. Decrement that target characteristic. If the target characteristic is now below zero, the ship is Out Of Action, and the crew doubtless should be thinking about ways to effect repairs (I assume there are rules for that).
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To reiterate what this adds to a High Guard-like game.
- It leverages Traveller's UPP + skill trope.
- Ships become a bit more like characters.
- Damage is simplified.
- The battle rider is weakened (but by how much is left to be determined).
- Equipment change-out only partly changes the ship's abilities.
- Ship design becomes more point-buy based, and subsequently
- Ship size probably maps to the number of points allocated to characteristics
Finally note that this could be an evolution of High Guard, rather than a completely new system. At one point Marc was interested in not completely starting over, but adapting High Guard in a T5 direction if possible. However, the question becomes, What changes and What doesn’t?
Marc at one point liked the spine lists in HG, but I think he no longer does.
He still wants the layered defenses, so perhaps the combat tables are in his mind.
I think he favors HG1’s weapon factors, instead of HG2; I.e. one aggregate value per weapon type and defense type.
He really likes the old concept of payload-first design, which you could do with HG.
Marc at one point liked the spine lists in HG, but I think he no longer does.
He still wants the layered defenses, so perhaps the combat tables are in his mind.
I think he favors HG1’s weapon factors, instead of HG2; I.e. one aggregate value per weapon type and defense type.
He really likes the old concept of payload-first design, which you could do with HG.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Spine maker - gives us the core of the ship, and a key dimension to work with L.
So we need a way to make a variety of spines over the various TLs.
L x (a range of variables such as configuration) can give us surface are for hardpoints and total volume for determining drives and payload.
The next step is drives - % based
Are we just going to assume warships are armoured to the best their TL can get and actually grant a bonus to payload if armour is declared to be light?
That leaves us with payload.
Fighters, carried craft, launch tubes, opps (sensors and electronic warfare), bays, screens, point defence (turrets)
Bays will get us secondary offensive capability,
Layered defences - electronic warfare (including EMPing), configuration (if applicable), defensive weapons (lasers, energy, sandcasters), screens (if applicable), armour.
So we need a way to make a variety of spines over the various TLs.
L x (a range of variables such as configuration) can give us surface are for hardpoints and total volume for determining drives and payload.
The next step is drives - % based
Are we just going to assume warships are armoured to the best their TL can get and actually grant a bonus to payload if armour is declared to be light?
That leaves us with payload.
Fighters, carried craft, launch tubes, opps (sensors and electronic warfare), bays, screens, point defence (turrets)
Bays will get us secondary offensive capability,
Layered defences - electronic warfare (including EMPing), configuration (if applicable), defensive weapons (lasers, energy, sandcasters), screens (if applicable), armour.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Depends on how you define that.
It's a shell that evenly spreads it out, in Traveller.
All or nothing establishes a more or less centralized armoured citadel, with everything important within it's boundaries.
It's a shell that evenly spreads it out, in Traveller.
All or nothing establishes a more or less centralized armoured citadel, with everything important within it's boundaries.
ONE OF MANY POSSIBLE SPINE-MAKERS
(Commentary follows, below the fold)
Assume a spine at a minimum requires
Spine. 4,500 tons.
Dish. 9,500 tons.
Main Bay. 8,000 tons.
Particle Accelerators, Meson Guns, Energy weapons, and Rail Guns require a Spine.
Inducers, Jump Dampers, Tractor/Pressors, and Disruptors require a Dish or a Bay.
Missile launchers, Ortillery, or Fighter Launchers require a Spine or a Bay.
Their damage ratings are equal to its class code. So an "A" spine has a damage rating of 10, a "C" spine has a damage rating of 13, and a "Z" spine has a damage rating of 33. Volume also increases with letter code.
Stage Effects. Since both High Guard and Traveller5 limit weapons by Stage (High Guard embeds a prototypical "Stage Effects" effect into its spines tables), it seems reasonable to allow Stage Effects to represent development.
Experimental: vol x 2, Factor - 3
Prototype: vol x 1.9, Factor - 2
Early: vol x 1.7, Factor - 1
Std: vol x 1.0
Improved: vol x 1.0, Factor + 1
Modified: vol x 0.9, Factor + 2
Advanced: vol x 0.8, Factor + 3
Traveller5 indicates that a TL 9 Particle Accelerator would have to be a Prototype. So for example, a prototype Class A spine would displace 9,000 tons and have a damage rating of 10 - 2 = 8.
What if a Class S spine is 25,000 tons though? A Prototype would displace 47,500 tons but the damage is only slightly penalized (20 - 2 = 18).
*** Another Way To Do This. Since we might end up with 24 "base" spines, perhaps we only need "Hard Stage"... in other words, only the Early, Prototype, and Experimental stages, and use the spine codes to represent improvements and TL thresholds. I think this route is worth exploring.
Range Effects. Some weapons require range, while others don't. The T5 way to customize range is with a Range or Bulk table.
VLight: vol x 0.6. Range - 2
Light: vol x 0.7. Range - 1
Heavy: vol x 1.3. Range + 1
VHeavy: vol x 4.0. Range + 2
Considerations. With Stage and Range, a single spine would have 28 unique representations. Then what is the purpose of a "Spine Table"? I can think of three possibilities: it allows truly massive spines, it allows a range of damage, and it can simplify design by bundling power, ordnance, and control requirements. In a sense, this prepares the system against Eurisko by making that tactic easy to test.
I *think* Marc favors a flat list of spines... but on the other hand he did all the *Makers, where Stage and Range modify a base set of items.
On the Gripping Hand, Marc's made noises about the "X, Y, Z" spines displacing 25,000 tons or so, and I assume (?) that that's the base model.
And on the lower end, one of his email suggests that the smallest possible spine cannot reasonably fit into an ACS. That suggests a modified lower potential size of ... well call it 2,500 tons.
Assume Stage and Range are things. But I want to borrow Stage from GunMaker:
Experimental: vol x 2
Prototype: vol x 1.9
Early: vol x 1.7
Std: vol x 1.0
Improved: vol x 1.0
Modified: vol x 0.9
Advanced: vol x 0.8
Ultimate: vol x 0.7
And although I don't like using bulk-related terms to affect range, they seem to make sense, so again from GunMaker:
VLight: vol x 0.6. Range - 2
Light: vol x 0.7. Range - 1
Heavy: vol x 1.3. Range + 1
VHeavy: vol x 4.0. Range + 2
These numbers are twiddled with to get a feel for the range of standard spines. For example, if the minimum spine size is 2500 tons, then the minimum Standard Spine Size is 2500 / 0.7 (Ultimate) / 0.6 (Vlight) = 6,000 tons.
Sounds "too large".
So now we play with the numbers. How does 4,000 tons feel? Yeah, that "seems" pretty reasonable for Traveller in lieu of High Guard.
That means the smallest spine is 4,000 x 0.6 = 2400 more or less.
So "Ultimate" x "VLight" has to be 0.6 or larger, right? Rather than arrive directly at numbers, I want to ease into them. So first I'll change Vlight and Light to 15% increments.
VLight: vol x 0.7. Range - 2
Light: vol x 0.85. Range - 1
Heavy: vol x 1.3. Range + 1
VHeavy: vol x 4.0. Range + 2
Next let me put "Ultimate" on the chopping block, because I think seven Stages is plenty.
Experimental: vol x 2
Prototype: vol x 1.9
Early: vol x 1.7
Std: vol x 1.0
Improved: vol x 1.0
Modified: vol x 0.9
Advanced: vol x 0.8
So the smallest multiplier is now 0.7 x 0.8 = 0.56. Close enough? 2240 is pretty good... very tempting...
And I don't want to change these values much more. VLight could go do 0.75... but at some point it's just not worth it, so not yet.
There's one more option, and that's to raise the Standard tonnage just a little bit.
For example, 4500 tons.
4500 x 0.56 = 2520 tons. That seems to satisfy the criteria.
(Commentary follows, below the fold)
Assume a spine at a minimum requires
- Its own independent power source.
- Some sort of an effect generator with or without an enhancer (the "tube").
- Some sort of control mechanism and operational crew.
- If required, a fuel source.
- If required, a Magazine with reloads.
Spine. 4,500 tons.
Dish. 9,500 tons.
Main Bay. 8,000 tons.
Particle Accelerators, Meson Guns, Energy weapons, and Rail Guns require a Spine.
Inducers, Jump Dampers, Tractor/Pressors, and Disruptors require a Dish or a Bay.
Missile launchers, Ortillery, or Fighter Launchers require a Spine or a Bay.
Their damage ratings are equal to its class code. So an "A" spine has a damage rating of 10, a "C" spine has a damage rating of 13, and a "Z" spine has a damage rating of 33. Volume also increases with letter code.
Stage Effects. Since both High Guard and Traveller5 limit weapons by Stage (High Guard embeds a prototypical "Stage Effects" effect into its spines tables), it seems reasonable to allow Stage Effects to represent development.
Experimental: vol x 2, Factor - 3
Prototype: vol x 1.9, Factor - 2
Early: vol x 1.7, Factor - 1
Std: vol x 1.0
Improved: vol x 1.0, Factor + 1
Modified: vol x 0.9, Factor + 2
Advanced: vol x 0.8, Factor + 3
Traveller5 indicates that a TL 9 Particle Accelerator would have to be a Prototype. So for example, a prototype Class A spine would displace 9,000 tons and have a damage rating of 10 - 2 = 8.
What if a Class S spine is 25,000 tons though? A Prototype would displace 47,500 tons but the damage is only slightly penalized (20 - 2 = 18).
*** Another Way To Do This. Since we might end up with 24 "base" spines, perhaps we only need "Hard Stage"... in other words, only the Early, Prototype, and Experimental stages, and use the spine codes to represent improvements and TL thresholds. I think this route is worth exploring.
Range Effects. Some weapons require range, while others don't. The T5 way to customize range is with a Range or Bulk table.
VLight: vol x 0.6. Range - 2
Light: vol x 0.7. Range - 1
Heavy: vol x 1.3. Range + 1
VHeavy: vol x 4.0. Range + 2
Considerations. With Stage and Range, a single spine would have 28 unique representations. Then what is the purpose of a "Spine Table"? I can think of three possibilities: it allows truly massive spines, it allows a range of damage, and it can simplify design by bundling power, ordnance, and control requirements. In a sense, this prepares the system against Eurisko by making that tactic easy to test.
I *think* Marc favors a flat list of spines... but on the other hand he did all the *Makers, where Stage and Range modify a base set of items.
On the Gripping Hand, Marc's made noises about the "X, Y, Z" spines displacing 25,000 tons or so, and I assume (?) that that's the base model.
And on the lower end, one of his email suggests that the smallest possible spine cannot reasonably fit into an ACS. That suggests a modified lower potential size of ... well call it 2,500 tons.
Assume Stage and Range are things. But I want to borrow Stage from GunMaker:
Experimental: vol x 2
Prototype: vol x 1.9
Early: vol x 1.7
Std: vol x 1.0
Improved: vol x 1.0
Modified: vol x 0.9
Advanced: vol x 0.8
Ultimate: vol x 0.7
And although I don't like using bulk-related terms to affect range, they seem to make sense, so again from GunMaker:
VLight: vol x 0.6. Range - 2
Light: vol x 0.7. Range - 1
Heavy: vol x 1.3. Range + 1
VHeavy: vol x 4.0. Range + 2
These numbers are twiddled with to get a feel for the range of standard spines. For example, if the minimum spine size is 2500 tons, then the minimum Standard Spine Size is 2500 / 0.7 (Ultimate) / 0.6 (Vlight) = 6,000 tons.
Sounds "too large".
So now we play with the numbers. How does 4,000 tons feel? Yeah, that "seems" pretty reasonable for Traveller in lieu of High Guard.
That means the smallest spine is 4,000 x 0.6 = 2400 more or less.
So "Ultimate" x "VLight" has to be 0.6 or larger, right? Rather than arrive directly at numbers, I want to ease into them. So first I'll change Vlight and Light to 15% increments.
VLight: vol x 0.7. Range - 2
Light: vol x 0.85. Range - 1
Heavy: vol x 1.3. Range + 1
VHeavy: vol x 4.0. Range + 2
Next let me put "Ultimate" on the chopping block, because I think seven Stages is plenty.
Experimental: vol x 2
Prototype: vol x 1.9
Early: vol x 1.7
Std: vol x 1.0
Improved: vol x 1.0
Modified: vol x 0.9
Advanced: vol x 0.8
So the smallest multiplier is now 0.7 x 0.8 = 0.56. Close enough? 2240 is pretty good... very tempting...
And I don't want to change these values much more. VLight could go do 0.75... but at some point it's just not worth it, so not yet.
There's one more option, and that's to raise the Standard tonnage just a little bit.
For example, 4500 tons.
4500 x 0.56 = 2520 tons. That seems to satisfy the criteria.
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HARD STAGE
Say the Stage Effects table only covered Early, Prototype, and Experimental stages. This presents some advantages to me:
(1) The Spine Table can represent threshold TLs to limit the power of older TL ships (like High Guard does with its flat table).
(2) The base spine size decreases to 3500 tons -- which is easier on the eyes frankly.
OK two advantages. But I like the result -- it feels just a bit more familiar -- although the upper spine volumes will still appear to be quite large.
Say the Stage Effects table only covered Early, Prototype, and Experimental stages. This presents some advantages to me:
(1) The Spine Table can represent threshold TLs to limit the power of older TL ships (like High Guard does with its flat table).
(2) The base spine size decreases to 3500 tons -- which is easier on the eyes frankly.
OK two advantages. But I like the result -- it feels just a bit more familiar -- although the upper spine volumes will still appear to be quite large.
FASCINATING
This accords with High Guard in the lower TLs, maybe, although I'm not sure, because if a ship has the tech to field a defense, surely it would. The OTU is no exception here, for the simple reason that High Guard was written with the OTU in mind. It could be as simple as a missing "deployment" guideline with technology.
But it accords very well with Agent of the Imperium. I believe the passage in question predates the Barracks Emperors period. But Marc also quotes it, indicating he might still think they are not standard equipment... but I'M NOT SURE.
This accords with High Guard in the lower TLs, maybe, although I'm not sure, because if a ship has the tech to field a defense, surely it would. The OTU is no exception here, for the simple reason that High Guard was written with the OTU in mind. It could be as simple as a missing "deployment" guideline with technology.
But it accords very well with Agent of the Imperium. I believe the passage in question predates the Barracks Emperors period. But Marc also quotes it, indicating he might still think they are not standard equipment... but I'M NOT SURE.
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mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Of their day is the key thing here. The Azhantis are over a century old by the 1100s, Also of note is the S:9 entry for the Atlantic 75kt heavy cruiser which has a meson screen and is approaching obsolescence. Most of the warships 3000t and above have meson screens.
^ Yah, I saw that after I wrote it. However, in their day, the meson screen existed, and tell me the OTU decides not to follow High Guard more closely than us ship design nerds... On the other hand, if the enemy doesn't have meson guns, what's the use of a screen? And then the Barracks Emperors happens...
...and then I think about how High Guard, the rules, is subtly out of context and insulated from an actual setting, and my head spins.
...and then I think about how High Guard, the rules, is subtly out of context and insulated from an actual setting, and my head spins.
