Blue Darrians and Blue Skinned Vilani

[kafka47]

Well, I would not have made the Darrians blue any more than I would have made them yellow as in Elfquest. Yet, the canon GDW product dictates it must be so. I would rather go to Larry Elmore for my Space Elf inspiration.

But, correct me if I am wrong there is something indeed official or quasi about Blue Skinned Vilani evolved on some moon. Or have I been drinking too much Scout Brew again...

 

[Dragoner]

I've never heard that about the Vilani, but it could be post my time as I'm more just a CT guy.

It's a wonder the Vilani aren't black actually or like Khosians, considering the -300,000 time frame. I usually chop a zero off that date, because modern human aren't that old at all iirc only 80,000 for toolmaking and something like 30,000 to look like us as modern humans.

Who is Larry Elmore? I draw a lot of my ideas about elves from Tolkien and cultural tradition I guess.

 

[Border Reiver]

http://www.larryelmore.com/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Elmore

There was a reference to blue/black Vilani skin tones in Vilani & Vargr IIRC.

 

[Dragoner]

Very nice paintings.

 

[kafka47]

Rather than Tolkien, I would rather draw my inspiration from Fading Suns - Obun + Ukar for the Darrians and cousins in Foreven.

 

[Dragoner]

This is where elves originally come from:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elf

That said, years and years ago I didn't make the Darrians elves, I thought of them more as some Neo-Byzantines and potentially more aggressive, c'est la vie...

I'm not familar with Fading Suns; and do the Darrians have cousins in Foreven? Is there a developed CT Foreven sector somewhere?

 

[Ran Targas]

Rather than Tolkien, I would rather draw my inspiration from Fading Suns - Obun + Ukar for the Darrians and cousins in Foreven.

The Obun and Ukar are great! I already use them to fill other spots in the Humaniti roster but they could easily stand in for the Darrians. Great idea!

 

[aramis]

I like SLA Industries' Ebons...

 

[Starviking]

But, correct me if I am wrong there is something indeed official or quasi about Blue Skinned Vilani evolved on some moon. Or have I been drinking too much Scout Brew again...

I seem to recall that the Yileans, a minor human race from the Vargr Extents are blue-skinned. Ring any bells?

 

[kafka47]

GT which I always liked protrayed them as proud noble Africans in Japanese Imperial Garb. All this talk about races in Traveller rather than cultures makes me think that we have to populate the Imperium with distinctive cultural entities making me think that Hans' model of the the Imperium is the "EU in Space" has increasing merit.

 

[Dragoner]

IMO, I look at the Imperium more as the Austro-Hungarian Empire, with differences maintained, but equal and all under the authority of the Emperor, due to it's Neo-feudalistic nature.

 

[aramis]

GT which I always liked protrayed them as proud noble Africans in Japanese Imperial Garb. All this talk about races in Traveller rather than cultures makes me think that we have to populate the Imperium with distinctive cultural entities making me think that Hans' model of the the Imperium is the "EU in Space" has increasing merit.

GT seems to have gone retcon crazy.

Lots of little changes.

The intertwining of race (ethnicity) and culture is normative for RPGing, but were are not even, properly, talking race, but subspecies or species. (Darrian divergence is clearly species level, if not sub-genus or genus level.

 

[rancke]

GT seems to have gone retcon crazy.

Lots of little changes.

I don't recall introducing any changes for the Darrians. Clarifications and added details, yes, changes, no. Might be one or two inadvertent ones.

The intertwining of race (ethnicity) and culture is normative for RPGing, but were are not even, properly, talking race, but subspecies or species. (Darrian divergence is clearly species level, if not sub-genus or genus level.

'Race' is used in the 'alien race' meaning, so in many cases it is about different species. Different biospheres, even. All human races are still Hominids, though. None of them are different races in the sense we use it most here on Earth (Though some of the races do have that kind of races of their own (The Iltharans, for example)). And Darrians are able to interbreed with Solomani, so they're demonstrably not a different species, just a different sub-species.


Hans

 

[aramis]

The darrians being able to interbreed with Solomani, despite the numerous differences in biochem, makes me wonder. Definitely not IMTU, and I'd like a citation that established a hybrid Darrian/Solomani.

Also, keep in mind: Tigers and Lions can produce survivable offspring. Ligers and Tigons. And those are only "generally" sterile. And lions and tigers are considered to be separate species. Same with horses and donkeys... you get mules, both jack and jenny.

Candian Lynx (Lynx canadensis) and house cats (Felis familiaris or Felis cattus, depending on reference and age of reference...)... in that case, viable hybrid offspring, as I know someone whose housecat was impregnated by a Lynx, and the sole kitten later sired a litter of 7... all of whom had deformed tails and hips, but lived to be at least 7 each....


Horses and zebras. Donkeys and Zebras. Foxes, Wolves, Coyotes, and Dogs. (In fact, as far as I've read, all current Canis genus species can produce live young with other Canis genus member species than their own. That they don't has more to do with preference and accessibility of preferable mates.

In fact, interbreeding is no longer definitively the test for speciation, but for being in the same subgenus, because it's been shown to be far more widely possible than was previously taught.

 

[Whipsnade]

The darrians being able to interbreed with Solomani, despite the numerous differences in biochem, makes me wonder. Definitely not IMTU, and I'd like a citation that established a hybrid Darrian/Solomani.

Wil,

Here you go...

AM8 Page 2: Some (at times it seems like many) Darrians claim direct descent from the Solomani who settled on Darrian about -1500. After 2500 years, such claims are difficult to document, although some genetic tests have been helpful.

AM8 Page 9: Rather than remain aloof and separate, they merged themselves into the mainstream of Darrian life. Solomani intermarried with Darrians.

... and most of all...

AM8 Page 15: Intermarriage with Solomani immigrants (largely of Semitic stock) introduced somewhat ruddier skin tones based on melanin pigments and darker hair, but a child is born with one or the other skin pigment, not a mixture. This is one of the many genetic oddities about Darrian-Solomani interfertility. (emphasis mine.)

It's pretty clear, the Solomani intermarried, interdred, and eventually were subsumed into the overall Darrian population.


Regards,
Bill

 

[rancke]

Also, keep in mind: Tigers and Lions can produce survivable offspring. Ligers and Tigons. And those are only "generally" sterile. And lions and tigers are considered to be separate species. Same with horses and donkeys... you get mules, both jack and jenny.

The usual definition is being able to produce fertile offspring, not just viable offspring. And, nature being such a messy thing, there are few clear-cut boundaries. All of which GT:Humaniti addressed in Chapter One.


Hans

 

[cajon5]

For whatever it is worth, about the time TNE was coming out I was taking a class in physical anthropology. I explained the game background to the professor and asked him if he thought humans separated for 200,000 or 300,000 years or so would still be interfertile, and he did think so.

 

[captainjack]

For whatever it is worth, about the time TNE was coming out I was taking a class in physical anthropology. I explained the game background to the professor and asked him if he thought humans separated for 200,000 or 300,000 years or so would still be interfertile, and he did think so.

Thank you for that !

Its been a contention of mine based on my genetics experience that interfertility is likely given the time gap in the OTU -on both sides of the coin (ie some yes, some no). What many people neglect to tke into account is that as a species modern humans are 1. not all that different from the archaic version that was a round then, and 2. as species go, do not have much variance, which is the real fodder for speciation (we seem to have gone thru a massive survival bottleneck at least once, and possibly twice).

Given the possiblilty that the ancients select for similar genomes when they transplanted, its quite likely that the rate of fertility/speciation divergence is quite low. Or not, if they grabbed extreme examples, or altered them.

It's one of those things about the OTU which turns out to actually work despite advances in science -of course, that didn't play well to a particular Jovian Mastermind over at Mongoose, so the discussion got shouted down.....

 

[Keklas Rekobah]

Blue Darrians ~ Draenei

No?

Yes?

 

[aramis]

Blue Darrians ~ Draenei

No?

Yes?

No. Bad initial consonant and bad vowel clusters.

initial consonants possible: b, d, g, p, t, th, k, m, n, z, l, r, y, zb, zd, zg, zl, mb, nd, ry, ly, ny, lz, ld
Vowels possible: a, e, eh, i, ih, o, u
final consonants possible: bh, dh, gh, p, t, k, m, n, ng, l, r, s, mb, nd, ngg, yr, ly, ny, lz, ld

final consonant is never followed by initial consonant of following syllable
(VC and CVC is followed by V or VC; V or CV is followed by CV or CVC); daryen is rigid C V C V C .... pattern, tho whether the C is an iC or fC varies.

Making it an anglicization of a Daryen word, how about it be Darenyi...