Boarding less lethal weapon/device

[Garyius2003]

I posted this under the naval infantry thread, but realized people may have more fun telling me why I am wrong in a purpose made thread. The 3I/solies/pocket empires will have boarding parties--maybe some guys with rifles/energy weapons, maybe an officer, but always some guys actually looking around, unlocking doors, looking into ducts, checking disclosure documents against what they can see. What do they carry--other than a pistol and a badge?

I have a total of maybe 20 hours training with the military riot baton (36 inch wood with thumb wrap thong) and have used it once. During my time as an MP I used the mag light never in training--unless you count the night stick training, as I never used the stick after initial training for training or real life--and used the mag light maybe 30 times in fights.

I offer that as background for my opinion. The 36 inch stave type weapon is only good when used in tight formation against fists and feet. One on one a 3-D cell mag light is much better, quicker, hits harder, and allows quicker blocks. Just as important, it keeps one hand free to wrestle, cuff, or keep your pistol in its holster.

My ideal 3I boarding impact weapon is a tough weighted small baton with light and a multi sensor suite and some sort of short range tranq/tazer option. For sure alarms for rads/air/chemical issues, and maybe short range radar or sonar for false compartments/bottoms.

 

[DaveChase]

Tazer Baton.

You can turn it on or off. Works as a baton and a touch tazer. You might even be able to make on that can fire a 12 gauge tazer round out of the end of it.

Dave Chase

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

And biometric.

Biometrics to monitor if it is non-tagged hands, and then maybe it tazes the handle so if someone gets control of it during a scuffle, Zap!. Same with the pistol. And last, if they are a boarding party they are at least carrying one space shottie, with frangible ammo. Even though truth is if you look in the old school, ships bulkheads take sick damage to cut through, so laser carbines might be in order, in case the boom of the shotgun isn't impressing the natives.

 

[Blue Ghost]

There was always the infamous "SNUB pistol", a device that I thought tended to unbalance the game some.

Light sabers

Riot shotgun with non-penetrating ammo.

At high tech levels, personal disintegrator with a stun setting (Star Trek phaser, lower tech version would be a Star Wars blaster with same setting).

 

[DangerousThing]

There was always the infamous "SNUB pistol", a device that I thought tended to unbalance the game some.

Light sabers

Riot shotgun with non-penetrating ammo.

At high tech levels, personal disintegrator with a stun setting (Star Trek phaser, lower tech version would be a Star Wars blaster with same setting).

IMTU I do have force swords, which are very similar to light sabers. They are used only by Imperial Knights, and by agreeing to be trained and to carry one, a Knighthood can be made heritable. I took the concept from several books plus Star Wars even without the force.

 

[Icosahedron]

We're talking official boarding - customs, etc?

IMTU they have clipboards and hand scanners. Why would they need weapons? If you open fire on unarmed customs officials you're in one heap of trouble. Your ship is then boarded by people with real weapons and you go away for a very long time. A tazer pistol held by an inspector is peanuts in comparison.

You can see the UK upbringing here.

 

[Orr]

Why would they need weapons?

For the same reasons bobbies carry batons; drunks, yobs, mental cases, and other ASBO recipients.

You're boarding a ship whose living space is smaller than many homes and which has been carrying a dozen or so people in close proximity for nearly 10 days. Even a liner will only be providing you with a list of names and not complete dossiers on every passenger.

What's to say some borderline claustrophobe suddenly sees your shuttle as the quickest way back to an actual atmosphere? And you just happen to be standing in their way?

One of the double adventures, the one set on a floating palace, has sonic stun carbines stated out.

 

[sabredog]

I have stun batons IMTU. They can be set to three levels of shock depending on what you think the threat might need to be deterred with. You use the club stats for hitting someone with one, but ignore the armor modifiers.

If you hit someone in anything but Vacc Suits, Cmbt Environment, Combat,Battle Dress its a 3D6 roll against END or less or the character is out for 10 minutes. At level 2 its a 4D6 roll and be effective against vacc suits and Combat Environment suits, at level 3 its a 5D6 roll and works on Combat Armor (but not Battle Dress). The rolls are still 3D6 against End or less when the levels are used against the appropriate armor - so at level 3 you still make a 3D6 roll against End< for knocking the target out...the higher dice rolls are for unarmored targets and useful against large animals.

A stun baton is TL-10 and has 21 charges - each level of power uses one charge, so level 3 costs 3 charges.

 

[sabredog]

I also have blackout grenades that are useful for less-lethal boarding actions or for anti-hijack (or pro-hijack, depending) measures.

Black-Out Riot Grenade Wt. 1kg Price: 150Cr. TL-10

Anti-riot gas grenade loaded with a selective nerve agent that directly affects the optic nerves to induce temporary blindness for 1 hour. The burst radius is 10 meters and the gas is non-persistent; typically it is safe to enter the area without protection within 30 minutes of use, or after using copious amounts of water to wash the biodegradable agent away (riot cannon are dandy for this). The gas is effective if inhaled or absorbed through the mucous membranes, so a gas mask is usually sufficient to protect someone from the gas effects, but caution must be used while the gas is active to avoid inadvertent exposure. A common use of Black-Out is in conjunction with anti-hijack systems on many star liners since it has no lasting ill effects and allows the crew to don vacc suits and safely round up exposed troublemakers. It can also be substituted for gas rounds fired from snub pistols.

And naturally the ubiquitous Flash-Bang, because Cpl. Shortstraw says, “Always throw a grenade into the room before you enter it!”

Concussion, or “Flash Bang” Wt: .5kg Price: 20Cr TL-5

Burst radius is 5 meters, and all personnel within it that are wearing “soft” armor are stunned for one round and suffer 1D6 temporary reduction to their Dexterity for 2 rounds after that. Combat or Battledress wearers who have open (or no) helmets on are treated as if in “soft” armor. Otherwise hard armor gives 100% protection against the stun effect. The flash causes anyone who fails a saving roll of 10+ on 2D6 to be blinded for 3 rounds, double if they are wearing thermal or IR imaging devices in low light conditions.

Concussion grenades will work in vacuum or trace atmospheres, but only the flash effect will affect personnel. In dense atmosphere (or underwater) the flash effect is the same, but the concussion effect causes 1D6 actual wounds to a random characteristic and the stun lasts for 2 rounds instead of 1.

 

[Burocrate]

Words to live by...

I also have blackout grenades that are useful for less-lethal boarding actions or for anti-hijack (or pro-hijack, depending) measures.

And naturally the ubiquitous Flash-Bang, because Cpl. Shortstraw says, “Always throw a grenade into the room before you enter it!”

Words to live by...

From the 'Donnesbury' comic strip there is a character named Duke. His tag line from the 80s was:
"I always like to soften up a room by firing a couple of teflon rounds into it before I enter."

 

[rancke]

From the 'Donnesbury' comic strip there is a character named Duke. His tag line from the 80s was:

"I always like to soften up a room by firing a couple of teflon rounds into it before I enter."

Duke also liked to soften up the hunting grounds with a few mortar shells before going hunting.


Hans

 

[Burocrate]

SPA; its not just a job, its an adventure!

We're talking official boarding - customs, etc?

IMTU they have clipboards and hand scanners. Why would they need weapons? If you open fire on unarmed customs officials you're in one heap of trouble. Your ship is then boarded by people with real weapons and you go away for a very long time. A tazer pistol held by an inspector is peanuts in comparison.

You can see the UK upbringing here.

Point/Counter-Point
(No offense intended to the brave English LEOs who work within that system.)

I would imagine that a Boarding Officer would only enjoy a tepid sense of satisfaction in the knowledge that their near fatal wounding (thank you John Cleese) or death would be avenged by heavily armed Marines.
As their manager, I would be hard pressed to put a positive spin on that situation.

"That’s the job, if you don't like it maybe you should get a job selling shoes.” *
*Actual quote from my old Range Master

IMTU there are a plethora of piñatas fun options:
1. Area Denial – various gases, Zero Friction foam, Shock Curtains, sonic devices, etc.
2. Shock Uniforms, K9 units (or local equivalent), Brute Squad to protect the Searching Officers
3. Or maybe have an SOP where you don’t Search till you have Secured your target/subject/etc

"Captain of the PugUgly, you will heave-to and shut down your drives to prepare for boarding. Turn off all Sensors and muster your crew in the Hold. Any deviance from these instructions will result in severe penalties. Do you understand?"

The Boarding Party goes in with heavy armor and weapons to secure the vessel. When the ‘all’s clear’ is received the inspection begins; either a whole new team or elements of the Boarding Team are freed up to handle this phase.

Just some ideas to keep those pesky pirates and ethically challenged merchants from getting uppity with the local SPA Inspection Team. I also seem to remember some PCs trying unconventional approaches like skill checks for Admin, Advocate, Bribery, Legal, or Streetwise or even role playing to avoid being searched/harassed/shot/etc. They knew in their bones that combat in Traveller is deadly, the winners are typically hospitalized and the losers are in the Morgue.

I guess you can see my US upbring, again, no offense intended.

Someone: "What's your job?"
Me: "To go home every night."


Preachy/paranoid, perhaps... but alive to accept criticism and learn from mistakes.

 

[rancke]

The Boarding Party goes in with heavy armor and weapons to secure the vessel. When the ‘all’s clear’ is received the inspection begins; either a whole new team or elements of the Boarding Team are freed up to handle this phase.

And if the SPA bean-counters think it's cheaper to pay for the expensive equipment, the man-hours, and the maintenance at every inspection than than to pay death benefits for the rare occasions when an inspection goes south, that's how it will be done. Otherwise, you'll be part of an unarmed two-man team and pretend to like it or you will be looking for a job as a shoe saleman.

OK, things will be more complicated than that, but economic considerations will play a big part. You can't send a boarding party in heavy armor unless you have the men and the armor for them.


Hans

 

[Garyius2003]

Anti-piracy/anti-slavery boarding team at System X.

One SDB, one launch. Launch has 5 crew. One flies and stays on board with open channel to SDB; one in armor with laser carbine, three with pistols and com headsets. Two have scanners and checks things like randomly selected hold areas and ship spaces, and cold sleep areas. The third talks to crew and passengers.

Figure 12-hour shifts, three inspections per shift at two hours each, plus docking time and an hour two and from inspection area. That is one heck a deterrent at a small cost. The SBD has to be out there anyway.

 

[Blue Ghost]

For the same reasons bobbies carry batons; drunks, yobs, mental cases, and other ASBO recipients.

You're boarding a ship whose living space is smaller than many homes and which has been carrying a dozen or so people in close proximity for nearly 10 days. Even a liner will only be providing you with a list of names and not complete dossiers on every passenger.

What's to say some borderline claustrophobe suddenly sees your shuttle as the quickest way back to an actual atmosphere? And you just happen to be standing in their way?

One of the double adventures, the one set on a floating palace, has sonic stun carbines stated out.

"Divine Intervention"

 

[Easterner9504]

Mongoose Central supply Catalog is loaded with non-lethal weapons.

 

[Spinward Scout]

A boarding device I haven't seen mentioned is the one from 2010. The Arthur C. Clarke sequel to 2001: A Space Odyssey. In the movie, Brailovsky used some sort of hand-held thruster to push him and Curnow from the Leonov to the Discovery. In the book, it was jets on his backpack and he also used an interesting device - something called a 'broomstick'...

From 2010: Odyssey Two
You should read this with Elya Baskin's and John Lithgow's voices in your head.

Brailovsky: "Don't worry - I'll get you there in one piece, with my - what do you call it?"
Curnow: "Broomstick. Because witches are supposed to ride them."
Brailovsky: "Oh yes. Have you ever used one?"
Curnow: "I tried once, but mine got away from me. Everyone else thought it was very funny."

There are some professions which have evolved unique and characteristic tools - the longshoreman's hook, the potter's wheel, the bricklayer's trowel, the geologist's hammer. The people who had to spend much of their time on zero-gravity construction projects had developed the broomstick.

It was very simple - a hollow tube just a meter long, with a footpad at one end and a retaining loop at the other. At the touch of a button, it could telescope out to five or six times its normal length, and the internal shock-absorbing system allowed a skilled operator to perform the most amazing maneuvers. The footpad could also become a claw or hook if necessary; there were many other refinements, but that was the basic design. It looked deceptively easy to use; it wasn't.

The chapter in the book where it's mentioned is even called 'Boarding Party'.

 

[aramis]

NASA has such maneuver tools as you describe, Spinward Scout...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSSxikQBcfI shows the HHMU (Hand Held Maneuvering Unit) in the right hand of Ed White.

In the Enderverse, it's called the "Hook"... but it has additional functions.

 

[Carlobrand]

We're talking official boarding - customs, etc?

IMTU they have clipboards and hand scanners. Why would they need weapons? If you open fire on unarmed customs officials you're in one heap of trouble. Your ship is then boarded by people with real weapons and you go away for a very long time. A tazer pistol held by an inspector is peanuts in comparison.

You can see the UK upbringing here.

The NI thread had to do with naval infantry and their possible roles, including combat (not customs) boardings, posting watch on ship entries at port, aiding in the defense of the port in emergencies, possibly infantry ground combat, and so forth.

I'm a little puzzled as to where we're going here, as I agree that routine customs likely doesn't need more than maybe a snub pistol and cloth armor, and that aforementioned flashlight doing duty both to see into dark corners and bop the occasional civvie head. The crew and passengers are expected to be in shirtsleeve conditions, not armed and armored/vacc-suited; deviating on that score is like walking up to a cop while carrying a gun. The ship to be inspected is either in space, docked at the highport or landed: the future does not bode well for a ship whose crew assaults a port official while docked or landed, and such an event in space is likely to lead to much bigger weaponry being involved - also not healthy for the ship in question. Other than a rogue crewman or a passenger with a shady past, I'd expect the ship to either behave itself - perhaps offer a bribe or accept a fine - or do its level best not to be in the position of encountering a customs official.

The nonlethals are good, but I see them more as applying to crowd-control and nonlethal capture situations - although a few might be interesting adds to the arsenal of a commercial passenger ship wanting to be ready for hijackers.

 

[aramis]

Carlo:
If you can take a ship without killing the defenders, you can then interrogate said defenders.