CT Only: Body Pistol vs. Reflec Armor

[exedore6]

I was looking over the Classic Traveller combat tables today, and I noticed something odd.

The Body Pistol vs Reflec Armor has a DM of -4

This puts reflec as good as Cloth and better than Ablat against the body pistol.

B1'77, B1'81, TTB, and ST all agree on this point.
Snapshot however, makes Reflec as good as nothing (which matches Reflec's description in B1).

Has anyone using the tables ran into this? Which way did you justify it, and why? (The errata doesn't seem to clarify this 'inconsistency')

 

[Carlobrand]

That's interesting. Never dealt much with body pistols. Law levels being the way they are, there was usually something more effective to carry.

The canonical example of the body pistol, as described at the back of Book 1 in the "Antique Equivalents" section, is the Walther PPK or the OMC Back-up .380. Per description, it drives a 5 gram bullet to 500-600 m/s, as compared to the canonical autopistol or revolver, which fired a 9x19 Parabellum or a .357 magnum respectively, with about twice the punch based on the Book 1 description of the rounds' characteristics.

Looking over the table, reflec was clearly more than just mirror-shiny plastic. It stops teeth and claws better than Jack, Mesh, or Cloth, quite handy if your opponent is a wolfoid. Useless against edged weapons but good against spears, though not as good as mesh or cloth. So, this material is not just shiny - it resists penetration, at least at the level of low-power pistol rounds and animal fangs. Up the power of the bullet though, bring it up to magnum level and you've overpowered the fabric to the point that it offers no protection.

Perhaps a better example for the body pistol might have been the .25 Baby Browning or the various .22 pistols, whose 2 to 3 gram projectiles flew at half to 2/3 of the velocity listed for the body pistol. I could maybe see one of those being stopped by a material that could balk animal teeth.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

The Reflective -4 is a typo carried over from the Cloth value. Draw a line through the "-" to make it a "+". If players scream bloody murder, make Reflective = 0.

 

[Carlobrand]

The Reflective -4 is a typo carried over from the Cloth value. Draw a line through the "-" to make it a "+".

It hasn't made it into the published errata. It's -4 in both the '77 edition and the '81 edition of Book 1 and that same value is kept in The Traveller Book. I don't see a reason reflec would give you a penalty over your bare skin, so changing it to +4 makes no sense.

On the other hand, Snapshot gave reflec no better benefit against body pistols than bare skin, and Striker gave it no armor value against projectiles. If one wanted to call it errata for house game purposes, one could assign it a value of 0 based on those examples. One could also submit a recommendation to add it to official errata, but I'm not sure if that's still being kept up.

 

[exedore6]

I suspect 0 is the 'correct' value as well. Just seems strange that it missed the errata, (strange enough for me to solicit alternative explanations)

Remember that cloth armor isn't a t-shirt. Kevlar would be cloth armor.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

First, you have to get players to agree on whether the chart is in error or not before errata. I'd ask the body pistol players first.

 

[kilemall]

First, you have to get players to agree on whether the chart is in error or not before errata. I'd ask the body pistol players first.

Is there such a creature?

About the only use I could see for it is a holdout or concealable. Most any other pistol is going to do better, including the Snub or Gauss. Laser is iffy thanks to Reflec.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

Is there such a creature?

About the only use I could see for it is a holdout or concealable. Most any other pistol is going to do better, including the Snub or Gauss. Laser is iffy thanks to Reflec.

There were in the '70s. Maybe there are referees that don't want that rule fixed. Because it would have been fixed by now.

 

[Otto Harkaman]

I recently purchased a Phoenix Arms HP22A, took it to Bud's gun range last Saturday and shot 200 RN standard velocity rounds with no misfires. Great little gun!

 

[Otto Harkaman]

I am sure there would be all kinds of different ammunition in the Traveller setting. I would think it would be the most standard that the charts are supposed to represent.

 

[pendragonman]

Lol. My players keep trying to get me to believe that a body pistol is a Desert Eagle.

 

[exedore6]

The claw, tooth and spear argument makes some sense. I like the interpretation that Reflec isn't garbage versus low-energy attacks. It makes sense (though it's still weird that it's so much better in those cases than the 'better' Jack and Mesh outfits.

My suspicion is that it was originally a typo, that made enough sense be left open to interpretation (Additionally, it changes things much less than dropping the -3 damage mod between 77 and 81)

 

[SanDragon]

Is there such a creature?

About the only use I could see for it is a holdout or concealable.

Of course there is. Any Steward worthy of the title will sport a nice, tailored cloth suit and a body pistol.

In my opinion...

 

[Olschoolgamer]

Why not just make reflec the same as none for everything but laser.
I have a consolidated combat chart I found online and it has that note at the bottom.
That being said I find other aspects of the consolidated chart suspect.
But, the original combat charts do seem to have a certain amount of "that sounds good" to them over real world statistics.

 

[exedore6]

That's pretty much what the Snapshot game's numbers reflect. But neither is has had errata changing it. You've got to decide IYTU, if reflec is a mylar suit, or if it's got any sort of resistance.

I suspect that there have been these camps since the beginning.