Originally posted by Straybow:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by far trader:
It IS enough that one carefully designed ship with a carefully selected crew can make it on a carefully selected route.
...I DO believe the system WILL "allow all ships run in a reasonable manner to be able to make it along all routes" provided such ships are properly designed and operated and the tailored to the route. I also DO NOT see any official designs that actually do this and can only blame laziness or creative whim in designing them. This is what causes all the problems with the whole stupid "the trade system can't work and must be wrong" discussions.
But half the point is that the "standard" hulls and "standard" designs don't work. Maybe this is just me, but should not "standard designs" be those that an inexperienced player who gets one in muster can make work as he or she learns the ropes?
As it is, you have to be both fairly experienced and fairly gearheaded to design a ship and a trade route that works by your criteria.</font>[/QUOTE]Just to clairfy, when I said no official designs worked I meant those over J1 that weren't subsidized.
To address your point Straybow(*), and it's a fair one, the orginal rules (CT LBB1-3) do in fact make only one standard merchant design available in mustering out, and it does work under the trade rules as is.
* and I'm not so much addressing you specifically as speaking to the audience at large
In fact the type A Free-Trader can make a lot of money. Lots and lots of it if the referee is generous with the speculative cargo rules. That is probably the only way merchants should end up with anything like the type A2, by buying one outright with profits earned from a standard type A. In fact there is no provision in CT for gaining a type A2 in mustering out is there?
To quote from Supp 7 about the A2 "This type of merchant... even with a full load... would be unable to make its payments... Instead, the owner would be required to engage in... speculation in order to make up the difference... Charters might also seem an attractive alternative."
This strongly implies that loans are available but I wouldn't back one. It goes against the standard prinicipal of the criteria. But it does clearly state that you can't make money on standard trade (not even the B2 1st. ed. model with it's 61tons of cargo), reinforcing that standard trade is the way it is done. The one big problem I have with the presentation of the A2 is that charters are somehow an attractive alternative. It isn't, you lose more money on a charter than basic trade. Charter rules ARE broken.
I think it wasn't until Supp 4 - Citizens that the notion that players should have potentially money losing ships came about. The Safari ship, Lab ship, Corsair, Yacht, and Seeker can't make money under the standard trade rules. But then you'd hardly expect them too. And again there is no mention of gaining a type A2 in mustering out. As an aside I'm curious when this became an idea in CT?
The Safari ship should make money only in steady high paying charter work. And I have long argued that the charter rules as presented DON'T make any sense. Fix the charter rules and the Safari ship can work.
The Lab ship shouldn't have to make money in the normal merchant way either. I operated under the presumption that they worked much like the type S award to DD Scouts but as private sector or Imperial backed reserach.
The Corsair is not going to be used for basic trade either. No one expects it to do they? No one imagines Pirates are showing up at the port every month and going to the bank to make a payment based on transporting passengers and freight do they? Of course not. Pirates take what they need and don't pay nobody nothing arrrr. Or they're Privateers with backing similar to that of Subsidized Merchants.
The Yacht is another one that isn't supposed to be going around trading. It's either owned outright as a pleasure craft or part of an estate or the diplomatic service for the Noble to conduct official affairs with. Either way, again I employed it much like the type S awarded to DD Scouts.
The Seeker is also not engaged in simple merchant activity. Usually. I think it can actually operate as one and turn a moderate profit but typically it is supposed to be operating from strike to strike hoping for the big one that will allow retiring in luxury.
Originally posted by Straybow:
PS: I can't help but notice that a couple dozen posts by thrash have been deleted from the thread. What gives?
Yeah, I thought I'd noticed one or two were gone. Perhaps he has simply had enough of this particular issue and simply wanted to divorce himself from the whole mess.
), they can't all be true for the same universe. And the OTU is one, and only one, specific universe.
