Buying mothballed ships

[Ex_Pendable]

Mostly it's making sure the ship is in working condition with a few key components removed and put into separate storage to prevent theft. Command codes are usually held in a separate location. Portable stores (like supplies in the Ship Locker) are returned to Supply for reissue or disposal. Ammunition and fuel are removed.

The mothballing shipyard then apply protective coatings, most often a silicone-based paint, to the exterior.

For ships going to airless moons or orbital yards, sensors are mounted to monitor the levels of atomic oxygen (very corrosive) and material fatigue from the heating/cooling cycles. Ideally, it's best to mothball ships where they're distant enough for a more consistent temperature range.

Atmosphere is tanked and may be removed or stored on board. Internal sensors monitor levels of outgassing by plastics and other materials. (Outgassing in an enclosed environment gives space a very nasty smell.)

Sensors are checked regularly, and the ship undergoes a routine inspection every few years to check for deposits of silicon dioxide from outgassing plastics/sealant paint as well as for micrometeor 'splashing'. Stored oxygen is checked for signs of tank corrosion.

Ships are reviewed every decade to determined if they are too outdated or damaged for use - and can therefore be scrapped or sold.


What can sometimes happen is it's decided to move a ship to a shipyard for reactivation, which includes removing the monitoring sensors and stripping off the protective coatings while repairing damaged panels and components - only to be given a cancellation order requiring all that to be done over again, which can lead to a patchwork-like appearance and further material fatigue.

Also, keep in mind that scrapped ships are sometimes broken up into components/sub-assemblies - and those could be sold and later reassembled.

 

[Condottiere]

It was an easier process during the Age of Sail, though one reason the Colonies were lost was when the Admiralty tried to reactivate them, they found that some (and I think a lot)of the reserve ships had been left rotting away.

Currently, the United States Navy is (or had) proposing a rotating system for partially budgetary reasons and at the same time refurbish/upgrade it's larger surface combatants later on and extent their service life.

I think Congress is afraid they're trying to pull a fast one like the Air Force with their blatant attempts at trying to retire the Warthog in favour of using the money saved to buy more Lightnings.

British policy during the interwar years had their reserve fleet scrapped since they figured (or wanted believe) no major conflict was brewing over the horizon, and desperately got Uncle Sam to cough up it's surplus of Great War destroyers to help make up the gap for convoy escorts.

So, what can you learn from this?

Putting aside Trillion Credit Squadron and the fact that our ships are ridiculously cheap to maintain, and probably to reactivate, regularly rotating reserve ships, with likely green or reserve crews might be the best policy, otherwise resale to client states or strip them for spare parts, especially if similar classes are still in service.

 

[Carlobrand]

...Putting aside Trillion Credit Squadron and the fact that our ships are ridiculously cheap to maintain, and probably to reactivate, regularly rotating reserve ships, with likely green or reserve crews might be the best policy, otherwise resale to client states or strip them for spare parts, especially if similar classes are still in service.

They essentially do this with the MT reserve sqyadrons, no?

Wouldn't you have to pump in an inert atmosphere? I understood vacuum could have some negative effects.

 

[Condottiere]

Reactivation also takes up yard space.

Great for a surge in the medium term, assuming all the pieces are in place.

Specifically to Imperium practice, that may vary between frontier and interior subsectors and commanders.

 

[kilemall]

Hmm, CT TCS covers the whole mothballing thing.

Ship goes into Ordinary and costs 10% of the usual maintenance per year. TCS maintenance is 10% of ship price per year, (that covers salary, supplies, fuel, ordnance), etc., so ships placed in ordinary cost 1% maintenance per year.

It costs 10% of the ship price to recommission with 10% of the build time.

Refit limits are ships cannot get increased tonnage for drives and spinal mounts, armor cannot be changed, number and size of bays may not be changed.

A ref might allow a higher tech that requires less power plant and buy more room for bigger M or J drives, but that would be a home rule.

If you apply the same principle to the CT maintenance rules, an annual maintenance cost of a mothballed ship is .01% as opposed to .1%.

So let's say an upgunned Free Trader comes in at 40MCr, annual maintenance would be Cr40000, mothballed maintenance would then be Cr4000, recommissioning would be 4 MCr and less then two months.

If ordinary maintenance is deferred due to neglect or a remote crash site, I'd say add annual maintenance costs and 1 percentage point of recommission time for each year of neglect.

SO for our Free Trader that has been neglected for 10 years, it would be MCr4.4 and 20% of build time to get the ship going.

Multiply or divide those rates, maybe even exponential costs/time for differing circumstances like preserving weather or cold water, scavenging damage, corrosive environment, etc.

 

[savage]

Mothballed fleets are stored at Depots. Depots are for military personnel and their commercial subs only. So, the Depot would be required to make the drive and many updates to sell off ANY vessels. Reserve fleets could be in any subsector yard. Also, Depots are heavily automated making ship repairs easier.

Of course, we saw Plankwells moved to Reserve fleets in Corridor, as i recall even though they are not out dated.

 

[Condottiere]

Post Industrial Revolution, generational change is about twenty years.

Maybe Fisher onwards, the Royal Navy built ships to be replaced after twenty years of service; war service wears them out even faster, not counting battle damage.

Having forty year mortgages may not have been a random number in Traveller.

 

[McPerth]

IIRC, another instance where canon talks us about mothballed ships is in MT:RS adventure, where the Voroshilev ships are being demothballed.

On it, we find several dreadnouhgts that were being refited and upgraded while in mothball, and being demothballed just to find their main weaponry has been modified for experimental one.

To me, this hints that mothballed ships are being kept ungraded, and the main reason seems to be to have usable ships that can be reactivated quite sooner than building new ones, but also to so upgrade them, and probably experiment with them while not in duty (as in the case of the Voroshilevs).

 

[kilemall]

Post Industrial Revolution, generational change is about twenty years.

Maybe Fisher onwards, the Royal Navy built ships to be replaced after twenty years of service; war service wears them out even faster, not counting battle damage.

Having forty year mortgages may not have been a random number in Traveller.

That gets into a whole nother arena, the ships are apparently very durable and the commercial ones are cheap to maintain and relatively reliable from first build on, assuming no operational/battle damage.

But during war shortcuts could be taken for rapid assembly, particularly lighter ships that are going to be disposed/put in ordinary anyway, so they are cheaper and get in service faster, but don't last. The interstellar equivalent of Liberty ships or Destroyer Escorts for most ACS purposes.

That might be an option, a ship being disposed of after the war that isn't going to last long anyway so that's why the entry price is lower.

 

[Condottiere]

There are options to build cheaper hull configurations, less resiliently.

My opinion is that you build capital ships before a conflict, or at least have already made arrangements to do so, and minor combatants in the lead up to it.

Then you have emergency wartime building programmes.

 

[Major B]

That would be Oberlindes Lines buying an Azhanti High Lightning class ship with its particle accelerator for use on trade expeditions in Vargr space.

Not just Oberlindes. I think there were at least three companies mentioned that bought AHL-class ships that had been retired. Oberlindes was the only one to get their ship with weapons still installed though.

I'm going off of imperfect memory though so if someone has a copy of S5 handy please post a correction if I misremembered.

 

[Major B]

I'm going off of imperfect memory though so if someone has a copy of S5 handy please post a correction if I misremembered.

Well, my memory isn't perfect but it isn't bad. Here is a list of selected events taken from Don's consolidated timeline:

311-1005 The Reverie Indigo Echo, last AHL Cruiser completed, take first flight. Out of a production order of 100, 92 were built. (S5)
123-1008 Tukera Lines acquires Marie Louise, formerly Empiric Starbow, a surplus AHL Cruiser with weaponry removed, for commercial purposes. (S5)
258-1010 Gateway acquires the Gateway Indani, formerly Muffled Triumph, a surplus AHL Cruiser with weaponry removed, for commercial purposes. (S5)
000-1012 Darrians acquire two AHL Cruisers, the Mire (formerly Vengeance) and Darrian (formerly Refulgent Thunderer). (S5)
0000-1013 Vegan Autonomous District acquires two AHL Cruisers, the Sudden Star (Arbitrary Remora) and Accompanist (Incomparable Triumph). (S5)
222-1021 Tukera Lines acquires Rimward Pride, formerly Sparkling Starbow, a surplus AHL Cruiser with weaponry removed, for commercial purposes. (S5)
182-1035 Tukera Lines acquires Nibber, formerly Magenta Portent, a third surplus AHL Cruiser with weaponry removed, for commercial purposes. (S5)
100-1037 Delvani Lines acquires Phylean, formerly Solo Finery, a second surplus AHL Cruiser. (S5)
010-1040 Five AHL Cruisers transferred to the IISS to serve as exploratory cruisers. (S5)
000-1048 Remaining 55 AHL Cruisers declared obsolete. (S5)
000-1049 Marc Oberlindes proposes purchase of an AHL Cruiser. (Nobles, SJG)
321-1049 Oberlindes acquires Emissary (Sparkling Distress). (S5)
000-1077 28 AHL Cruisers begin upgrade with spinal meson guns. (S5)

I didn't copy them verbatim. Had to write them down and retype the list so I may have introduced an error or left a bit out.

 

[Tikon]

What adventures use the AHL for the scout service? I know of one TNE that used it. That would feel more like a Battlestar Galactica adventure. Seeing as it's a Yamato style ship with a fighter complement

Qasar still has sentimental value for me. As I ran that T20 adventure with lots of fun ensuing. Also liked Gybson's drawing of it.
And it would make a good all-purpose deep space cruiser. With its large hangar bay. For ferrying fighters and grav tanks to allied worlds. or just using them. Make it a colonial support cruiser. Hauling cutter modules to new settlements.