Calculating Jump Routes

[ken at sunrise]

I'm trying to find a jump route that takes me around to these places in this order:

Sector	Hex Location	World
Dagudashaag	0906	Gvadh
Diaspora	0207	Justi
Reft	2698	Grecorn
Spinward Marches	2814	Jae Tellona
Spinward Marches	3112	Nutema
Corridor	0104	Khouth
Vland	2432	Korm

[TR] [TD] Vland [/TD][TD] 1730 [/TD][TD] Lurkha [/TD][/TR] [TR] [TD] Corridor [/TD][TD] 2505 [/TD][TD] Plunge [/TD][/TR][TD] Lishun [/TD][TD] 0227 [/TD][TD] Shuna [/TD]

Is there any easy way to figure this or just grab the map and go for it???
I'm guessing most of the jumps will be on military craft so Jump 4 and 8 days per. A couple of these will take months (argh). From Justi to Grecorn will be a military courier so Jump 6. The others, once I have the route will have detours.

Thoughts?

 

[Drakon]

You are going to spend the rest of your life aboard ship. This is a healthy list of systems, and pretty far spread out.

Short of getting a map and start plotting. There is a means of extract J6 star charts via Travellermap.com, but I have to let someone more competent tell you how.

You should look into gettting a Fleet Courier as a Ducal Yatch.

 

[ken at sunrise]

I've see the J6 Maps. Pretty nice work he's done.

The character will spend a lot of time in space; but also the other half on important worlds. I'm trying to build careers (two) from 18 to 66 and retirement. With his history (which I'm still developing) this is the route he would be on; though not by choice.

If I'm doing it by hand (reading maps) should I:

1. Make sure the jump too world has gas giants?
2. Do I need gas giants if there is a high enough space port facility?
3. What is high enough as in space port facility?
4. Do I need space port facility if there is a gas giant?
5. I know to stay away from red and yellow systems.

 

[Drakon]

1. Make sure the jump too world has gas giants?

1. 
   
   Any starport should have adequet fuel. A gas giant is only needed if you want to skim fuel for free. If your planet has sizable water, you can do wilderness refueling from any lake or even the ocean.
   
   Essentially, you need a starport, the higher rated the better. AND money.
   
   If you don't have a starport, you need either a planet with water, (liquid or solid) or a gas giant AND the appropriate equipment aboard ship to process or refine the fuel.
   
   

   [*]Do I need gas giants if there is a high enough space port facility?

   
   No. You need gas giants for refueling. Starports should have adequet purified fuel available.
   
   

   [*]What is high enough as in space port facility?

   
   The cost of refined fuel is 500 credits per ton at any A or B starport. Unrefined fuel is 100 credits per ton at any ABCD starport. (BBB pg 339)
   
   

   [*]Do I need space port facility if there is a gas giant?

   
   If all you need is fuel, no. If you need supplies, or maintenence, you will need a port. I guess you could set down on an wilderness planet and hunt and gather your supplies.
   
   

   [*]I know to stay away from red and yellow systems.

   
   At least, don't get caught.:devil:

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

Class E Starports.

Oddly enough I just finished a blog post on Starports and let me correct one small detail that the fine Baron Lemish glossed over, and that is Class E Starports don't have squat except a beacon and maybe a slab of something solid to land on, maybe. It ain't X, but it is in spitting distance. If the Port is Class E or X I would look for a gas giant or water present on the charts because there ain't no gas station there.

On the other hand if you need to do sneaky things not much of better place for it. :devil:

Also, there is a Jump Route Calculator on the web somewhere but I don't have the link handy. Sorry. How the Hells did Dulinor get time to plot out much less execute a coup? I mean with all the time Travelling I have to do to visit each of my new holdings I have no time for much else. Lucky bastard.

 

[aramis]

A class E, outside of T5 at least, is a known and stable place where people at least expect offworlders. Sure, it may not be up to snuff, but I'm certain that most will have something vaguely approximating a chandlery - you'll be able to get local produce in small but useful quantities, pay for sheets, and canonically, you can buy life support there, too. So it's more than just marked bedrock.

It's just that there isn't fuel to buy.

 

[rancke]

A class E, outside of T5 at least, is a known and stable place where people at least expect offworlders. Sure, it may not be up to snuff, but I'm certain that most will have something vaguely approximating a chandlery - you'll be able to get local produce in small but useful quantities, pay for sheets, and canonically, you can buy life support there, too. So it's more than just marked bedrock.

It's just that there isn't fuel to buy.

My take is that it's the other way around. A class E starport lacks one or more of the features a class D starport has. It may be nothing more than a spot of bedrock and a beacon, or it may be a relatively busy place with a chandler and maybe even refined fuel, but for some reason lacking repair facilites completely.

You just don't get a class E rating unless your starport has at least a landing site.


Hans

 

[aramis]

My take is that it's the other way around. A class E starport lacks one or more of the features a class D starport has. It may be nothing more than a spot of bedrock and a beacon, or it may be a relatively busy place with a chandler and maybe even refined fuel, but for some reason lacking repair facilites completely.

You just don't get a class E rating unless your starport has at least a landing site.


Hans

By the rules in TTB other than the starport description, it has to have the following services:

• Life Support Recharge capability (Which is rudimentary to a chandlery)
• Access to a market to buy and sell cargos.
• A passenger recruiting/ticketing board (even if only a chalkboard or a spot to hawk from.)
• Some delineated landing zone and a means of being found from orbit

Adding Book 7, we find that E Ports lack skilled brokers. Taking Hans' minimum plus approach, we might find a broker.
We might find fuel for sale - more likely, traffic is low enough that local water supply provides fuel in a raw form (as opposed to the quick cracked fuel that passes as unrefined).
We might find some repair facility - but if so, it's pretty minor.

Note that in MGT, the definitions are different. Subtly so... but still, different.

• Life Support Recharge capability (Which is rudimentary to a chandlery)
• A passenger recruiting/ticketing board (even if only a chalkboard or a spot to hawk from.)
• Some delineated landing zone and a means of being found from orbit

MGT lacks a presupposition of a market as part of the starport - instead supposing that the local brokers may make themselves available to ships.

 

[ken at sunrise]

Since most of my jumps will be on military craft I was trying to make sure the plot was to either Scout Bases or Imperial Naval Bases. So the lowest I've had to land on, so far, was 'D'. At least we can get fuel and be on our way.

Some of the systems, at least in the first two routes, are not for luxury. So low importance worlds might be better for the story?

 

[dalthor]

I wrote my own jump calculator, but don't have the universe file set up yet.

I suggest this link for jump route calculation. You can do each leg as a separate jump, and can specify jump length, amber/red zone exclusions, and gas giant presence.

http://www.joffrehorlor.com/Roleplaying/JRC/

 

[ken at sunrise]

All I get is no data can be returned.

Sigh... Well at least getting the jumps manually let's me check out worlds I haven't even seen before...

 

[Drakon]

All I get is no data can be returned.

Sigh... Well at least getting the jumps manually let's me check out worlds I haven't even seen before...

It crashed for me as well, trying to map out a path from Jewel to Lemish. The only thing it tells me is "bad arg" or "cannot display this page."

 

[rancke]

By the rules in TTB other than the starport description, it has to have the following services:

• Life Support Recharge capability (Which is rudimentary to a chandlery)
• Access to a market to buy and sell cargos.
• A passenger recruiting/ticketing board (even if only a chalkboard or a spot to hawk from.)
• Some delineated landing zone and a means of being found from orbit

The problem with relying on rules designed to run a free trader RPG campaign for world-building purposes is that such rules do not always reflect the setting adequately at all times and in all places.

Take Pavanne (Spinward Marches 2905). It's a barren world with no population at all¹. And a Class E starport.

¹ Except the passengers that the rules had you carry from Aramanx on the jump here. (3D-9 high passengers, 4D-9 middle passengers, and 6D-9 low passengers). Oh, and you're also carrying 1D+2 major cargoes, 1D+3 minor cargoes, and 1D-4 incidental cargoes. According to the rules...​

And before anyone brings up that no referee worth his salt would follow the rules in such a case, that's rather the point.


Hans

 

[dalthor]

Hmmmm...not sure when that jump calculator site broke, it has been about 6 months since I last used it.

I have a link to at least one other, will see if I can find it.

 

[esampson]

One other thing to recall regarding the use of programs to plot jump routes; this is what is known in mathematical terms as a 'travelling salesman' problem and to date all practical solutions for any significant route is what is known as 'non-trivial', meaning there's no pure mathematical answer and the best that can be accomplished is an informed estimate of the best route.

It should be noted that with current algorithms a lot of estimates are very good. In fact they are often better than what a human being is able to come up with when the system is given a reasonable length of time to focus. However there is no guarantee that the computed route is the optimal one.

 

[dalthor]

Here is sample output from a program I wrote years ago, to use the A* search algorithm to find routes. Hexes with a "1" contain a system.

I'd be willing to post the code in the appropriate forum, or send it via e-mail. It would give you the basics. I plan to implement a full scale version with all known sectors for personal use. The code needs some modifications to access more than one sector - this version was the start of the process. I haven't done anything since November due to other priorities.

====


- For testing purposes, only the first subsector is printed -

      01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08
      __    __    __    __   
01   /1 \__/0 \__/1 \__/1 \__ 
     \__/0 \__/0 \__/0 \__/0 \
02   /1 \__/1 \__/0 \__/0 \__/
     \__/1 \__/0 \__/1 \__/0 \
03   /1 \__/0 \__/0 \__/0 \__/
     \__/1 \__/0 \__/0 \__/1 \
04   /1 \__/0 \__/1 \__/1 \__/
     \__/1 \__/0 \__/0 \__/0 \
05   /0 \__/0 \__/1 \__/0 \__/
     \__/0 \__/0 \__/0 \__/0 \
06   /0 \__/0 \__/0 \__/0 \__/
     \__/0 \__/1 \__/0 \__/0 \
07   /1 \__/0 \__/0 \__/0 \__/
     \__/0 \__/1 \__/0 \__/0 \
08   /0 \__/0 \__/0 \__/1 \__/
     \__/0 \__/0 \__/0 \__/0 \
09   /0 \__/0 \__/0 \__/0 \__/
     \__/0 \__/0 \__/1 \__/0 \
10   /1 \__/0 \__/0 \__/0 \__/
     \__/1 \__/0 \__/1 \__/0 \
        \__/  \__/  \__/  \__/

== using these calls ==

Call find_path(304, 708, 1) ' bad source
Call find_path(708, 304, 1) ' bad dest
Call find_path(708, 708, 1) ' source and dest the same
Call find_path(101, 302, 1) ' good jump-1 path
Call find_path(101, 501, 1) ' good jump-2 path
Call find_path(101, 708, 1) ' good source and dest, jump 3 only

Call find_path(101, 302, 2) ' good jump-1 path
Call find_path(101, 501, 2) ' good jump-2 path
Call find_path(101, 708, 2) ' good source and dest, jump 3 only

Call find_path(101, 302, 3) ' good jump-1 path
Call find_path(101, 501, 3) ' good jump-2 path
Call find_path(101, 708, 3) ' good source and dest, jump 3 only

== gives these results ==

Error - source 304 is empty hex
Error - dest 304 is empty hex
Error - source (708) and destination (708) match
Jump-1 path: 101 -> 102 -> 202 -> 302
No jump-1 path found: 101 -> 501
No jump-1 path found: 101 -> 708

Jump-2 path: 101 -> 302
Jump-2 path: 101 -> 302 -> 501
No jump-2 path found: 101 -> 708

Jump-3 path: 101 -> 302
Jump-3 path: 101 -> 302 -> 501
Jump-3 path: 101 -> 203 -> 505 -> 406 -> 708

 

[dalthor]

Since the website I used before no longer functions, I'm contemplating work on my code, to finish my app for jump route calculation in known space.

Got to thinking about the criteria that might be used to decide which hexes (worlds) to visit, based solely on the mainworld:

1) Starport (refined fuel)
2) Water presence (unrefined fuel)
3) Gas Giant presence
4) Amber zone
5) Red zone

Each of these could be flagged, and worlds allowed or ignored based on those flags. These are the ones I consider critical, and would be my primary criteria.

I'd also weight each of these; even though you might allow jump into a red zone, it might be ignored in favor of a longer but "safer" route.

What other status would be considered important?

 

[ken at sunrise]

Thanks,

I'll take a look and see how they compare to the ones I've started laying out.

When I look at the map though, it doesn't appear that hard to find a path from Korm to Plunge.

 

[dalthor]

Actually, ignore that initial batch of routes. I had an axis rotation issue - sector data was valid, but I rotated the axis values, so Deneb was RIMWARD of the Marches, instead of trailing. This caused routes to be WRONG.

Here are the corrected jumps. I grabbed current sector data from Traveller Map, built a new database, and updated what I have for my universe. Several names have changed since I built the original database 10 years ago.

Note that this is simply shortest route - no other factors were taken into consideration. That'll be a future iteration of the program. I just coded the multiple sectors part in the last 24 hours, and just built the new interim database.

=====

Jump-4 Path: 25 jumps
0906 Gvadh -> 0910 Luuar -> 0914 Undim -> 1017 Talnes'ra -> 1021 Muruk -> 1025 Reshumirak -> 1029 Liikiir -> 1431 Argi -> 1535 Aiish -> 1539 Sharaa -> 1602 San Pietro -> 1506 Embd's Cloak -> 1709 Teredore -> 1713 Benici -> 1717 Sinting -> 1721 Staring -> 1924 Kdept -> 2226 Hepa -> 2230 Laner -> 2134 Kep Aru -> 2436 Disi -> 2540 Mongrebi -> 2603 Felicity -> 2806 Inferum Mare -> 3206 Shards -> 0207 Justi

Jump-6 Path: 15 jumps
0207 Justi -> 2904 Kelpie -> 2301 Seddon -> 1937 Sukhoi -> 1931 Coad -> 1328 Edno -> 0924 Glomar -> 0321 Ibaru -> 2919 Icehouse -> 2316 K'laktash -> 1715 Squee'twok -> 1211 Maris -> 0708 Adia -> 0204 De Camsall -> 2901 Fallion -> 2638 Grecorn

Jump-4 Path: 21 jumps
2638 Grecorn -> 3036 Seville -> 3133 Breezy -> 3229 Hoilhapuli -> 0126 Egurgadi -> 0222 Daze -> 0422 Rucciset -> 0820 Asshashur -> 1118 Heffone -> 1015 Usdiki -> 0912 Gakhamesh -> 1209 Fementok -> 1507 Puumariash -> 1905 Trama -> 2303 Kiind -> 2701 Fubanan -> 3139 Mappeh -> 0236 Khishugii -> 0635 Savvud -> 1033 Komirex -> 1431 Daalurge -> 1730 Lurkha

Jump-4 Path: 28 jumps
1730 Lurkha -> 1332 Nii Khu -> 0930 Gokodeyo -> 0927 Havland -> 0923 Gazzum -> 1120 Ideshe -> 1116 Darmagu -> 1012 Askhu -> 0610 Rakurram -> 0209 Lankhi -> 3010 Habretic -> 2611 Mee -> 2209 Alfive -> 1808 Lemish -> 1408 Xinox -> 1006 Wieresh -> 0605 Aka Gee -> 0205 Koergfoes -> 3004 Oluk Dzas -> 2603 Unekh -> 2202 Gounuerz -> 1802 Dzoungdzi -> 1505 Lagut -> 1306 Lome -> 0907 Malkei -> 0509 Redi -> 0211 Suvfoto -> 3114 Huderu -> 2814 Jae Tellona

Jump-4 Path: 284454 -> 1 jump
2814 Jae Tellona -> 3112 Nutema

Jump-4 Path: 9 jumps
3112 Nutema -> 0310 Horizon -> 0709 Hylaxis -> 1111 Zeen -> 1509 Prolam -> 1910 Uramid -> 2309 Malory -> 2506 Moskene -> 2904 Fel -> 0104 Khouth

Jump-4 Path: 321444 -> 19 jumps
0104 Khouth -> 0306 Hesarus -> 0608 Desolate -> 1010 Byla Hoso -> 1210 Latu -> 1513 Nubotech -> 1913 Shargishu -> 2212 Sent'ere -> 2611 Mee -> 3010 Habretic -> 0211 Giikur -> 0610 Rakurram -> 1012 Askhu -> 1116 Darmagu -> 1120 Ideshe -> 1323 Robbuun -> 1625 Bashimus -> 1729 Kargem -> 2030 Duusan -> 2432 Korm

Jump-4 Path: 12 jumps
2432 Korm -> 2030 Duusan -> 1628 Akumid -> 1624 Zushar -> 1323 Robbuun -> 1120 Ideshe -> 1116 Darmagu -> 1012 Askhu -> 0610 Rakurram -> 0209 Lankhi -> 3107 Desiver -> 2804 Neghu Oug -> 2505 Plunge

Jump-4 Path: 12 jumps
2505 Plunge -> 2907 Seplus -> 3209 R'tinh Kills -> 0311 Omero -> 0711 Rishiin -> 1113 Thogho -> 1515 Luunbu -> 1718 Kirma -> 2020 Shushguum -> 2322 Hefas -> 2624 Shera -> 3025 Shervan -> 0227 Shuna

=====

Hope this helps.

 

[dalthor]

Drakon,

Sorry, I just mentally caught your response about Jewell to Lemish. Here are jump-2 and jump-4 routes, Jewell to Lemish:

Jump-2 Path: Jewell to Lemish took 43 jumps
1106 Jewell -> 1006 Emerald -> 0807 Plaven -> 0909 Gougeste -> 1110 Zircon -> 1311 Tremous Dex -> 1510 871-438 -> 1711 Extolay -> 1910 Regina -> 2110 Yori -> 2309 Yurst -> 2509 Paya -> 2708 Violante -> 2908 Zila -> 3107 Lewis -> 0108 New Ramma -> 0207 Rubrak -> 0406 Pretoria -> 0508 Caladib -> 0709 Hylaxis -> 0910 Gyrfal -> 1111 Zeen -> 1311 Quanah -> 1409 Krisna -> 1608 Gaashushnu Li -> 1808 Antra -> 1910 Uramid -> 2111 Diiski -> 2212 Imlaar -> 2412 Pagamin -> 2512 Niven -> 2713 Wal-ta-ka -> 2913 Atsah -> 3112 Berth -> 0111 Shinku -> 0311 Jubal -> 0510 Pamock -> 0709 Mowanda -> 0910 Drayne -> 1109 Shushaka -> 1309 Naasakiira -> 1408 Xinox -> 1607 Shishkala -> 1808 Lemish

Jump-4 Path: Jewell to Lemish took 20 jumps
1106 Jewell -> 1305 Nakege -> 1705 Efate -> 2106 Pscias -> 2405 Keng -> 2706 Heguz -> 3104 Feneteman -> 0303 Kiiga -> 0701 Taa -> 1001 Kfathvaedal -> 1403 Qi'ire -> 1802 Dzoungdzi -> 2202 Gounuerz -> 2603 Unekh -> 3004 Oluk Dzas -> 0205 Koergfoes -> 0603 Taratun -> 1005 Mount -> 1307 Sebastion -> 1607 Shishkala -> 1808 Lemish

Hope this helps.