Can a pistol not kill you in one shot?

[kaladorn]

Okay, here's the deal:

One version of damage says you take each die versus an attribute. So our hero 898 (typical character) can probably eat a 6 very well rolled dice of damage before dying. But he doesn't go out until one stat hits zero.

Well, let's think about that. My gun does 2 or 3 dice of damage. That's gonna do enough (if we use the rule that first shot can apply all damage to the same stat) to knock you out in one shot, typically.

But you don't usually carry over fragments of a dice. And even if you did, 3 dice couldn't kill you dead.

So in CT, isn't it impossible to die from one shot?

Thoughts on how to make it possible for a single shot to drop you dead if the shooter is very lucky or skilled? My guesses would be some sort of damage multiplier idea plus carrying all damage over to other stats. That's the only way you can drill all three to zero in one shot, isn't it?

 

[kaladorn]

Okay, here's the deal:

One version of damage says you take each die versus an attribute. So our hero 898 (typical character) can probably eat a 6 very well rolled dice of damage before dying. But he doesn't go out until one stat hits zero.

Well, let's think about that. My gun does 2 or 3 dice of damage. That's gonna do enough (if we use the rule that first shot can apply all damage to the same stat) to knock you out in one shot, typically.

But you don't usually carry over fragments of a dice. And even if you did, 3 dice couldn't kill you dead.

So in CT, isn't it impossible to die from one shot?

Thoughts on how to make it possible for a single shot to drop you dead if the shooter is very lucky or skilled? My guesses would be some sort of damage multiplier idea plus carrying all damage over to other stats. That's the only way you can drill all three to zero in one shot, isn't it?

 

[mike wightman]

Here are three house rules I've used at one time or another:

1. exceptional success, if the role to hit is 5 or more greater than needed add 1 die of damage

2. use hit locations which provide damage modifiers, e.g. head shot add 2 dice of damage

3. if STR or END are reduced to zero then the PC is bleading to death and loses 1 point of blood (END or STR) per combat round until stabilised by a medic, once END and STR are reduced to zero reduce DEX by 1 point per minute

In all cases always carry remaining damage over to remaining attributes, players choice.
If you are feeling particularly evil then use all three at once

Hope this helps.

 

[mike wightman]

Here are three house rules I've used at one time or another:

1. exceptional success, if the role to hit is 5 or more greater than needed add 1 die of damage

2. use hit locations which provide damage modifiers, e.g. head shot add 2 dice of damage

3. if STR or END are reduced to zero then the PC is bleading to death and loses 1 point of blood (END or STR) per combat round until stabilised by a medic, once END and STR are reduced to zero reduce DEX by 1 point per minute

In all cases always carry remaining damage over to remaining attributes, players choice.
If you are feeling particularly evil then use all three at once

Hope this helps.

 

[Ranger]

I think the basic Book 1 system says you take all the damage from the first hit against one stat. If that doesn't drop the target to 0 in that stat, they keep fighting, and the rule you describe takes effect. The rule is a little unclear because it really isn't said if it's the first would from a given weapon, the first wound in a given combat round, or the first wound from a given character using a given weapon (at least it is not entirely clear to me). I think most people that use this rule, use it as first hit from a given character in that combat round. This is why combat with bigger weapons was short and deadly in Traveller, cause if you get hit by a 4D weapon, odds are you're going down (average of 14 points of damage against a single stat).

So, to answer your question, no, it can't kill, but, yes, a pistol can disable with one hit (up to 12-18 damage points against a single stat) but only with the first hit.

You could change this rule a little by applying it as a 'critical hit', so that any to hit roll that exceeds the required to hit number by 3 or 4 would apply all damage against a single stat.

 

[Ranger]

I think the basic Book 1 system says you take all the damage from the first hit against one stat. If that doesn't drop the target to 0 in that stat, they keep fighting, and the rule you describe takes effect. The rule is a little unclear because it really isn't said if it's the first would from a given weapon, the first wound in a given combat round, or the first wound from a given character using a given weapon (at least it is not entirely clear to me). I think most people that use this rule, use it as first hit from a given character in that combat round. This is why combat with bigger weapons was short and deadly in Traveller, cause if you get hit by a 4D weapon, odds are you're going down (average of 14 points of damage against a single stat).

So, to answer your question, no, it can't kill, but, yes, a pistol can disable with one hit (up to 12-18 damage points against a single stat) but only with the first hit.

You could change this rule a little by applying it as a 'critical hit', so that any to hit roll that exceeds the required to hit number by 3 or 4 would apply all damage against a single stat.

 

[salamander]

Originally posted by kaladorn:
So in CT, isn't it impossible to die from one shot?

The "coup de grace" rule can be stretched to cover this. Death is automatic.

Eg. You sneak up behind a person and fire into the back of his head. The ref can rule that, since your attack was a surprise, no struggle occured and coup de grace applies.

 

[salamander]

Originally posted by kaladorn:
So in CT, isn't it impossible to die from one shot?

The "coup de grace" rule can be stretched to cover this. Death is automatic.

Eg. You sneak up behind a person and fire into the back of his head. The ref can rule that, since your attack was a surprise, no struggle occured and coup de grace applies.

 

[The Oz]

As written, it's very hard to kill an average character with one shot from most pistols (excluding the 'coup de grace' rule mentioned above).

I always said that every point you rolled above the number needed to hit added one die of damage to the weapon: so if you needed a 10+ and rolled a 12 you did +2D6 damage. This especially helped the pistols and other small weapons.

OTOH, I also used a modified STRIKER system where the result of the penetration roll modified the damage done by each die of damage, so that a pistol hitting someone in good armor (say, cloth) might have -3 or so =on each die of damage=. So if the pistol-shooter (normally 2D of damage, say) rolled 4 over on his to-hit roll, he'd get to roll 6D6 for damage, but with a -3 on every die he still might not do a lot of damage. Against a target in really good armor like combat armor or battledress you needed a weapon with good penetration.

 

[The Oz]

As written, it's very hard to kill an average character with one shot from most pistols (excluding the 'coup de grace' rule mentioned above).

I always said that every point you rolled above the number needed to hit added one die of damage to the weapon: so if you needed a 10+ and rolled a 12 you did +2D6 damage. This especially helped the pistols and other small weapons.

OTOH, I also used a modified STRIKER system where the result of the penetration roll modified the damage done by each die of damage, so that a pistol hitting someone in good armor (say, cloth) might have -3 or so =on each die of damage=. So if the pistol-shooter (normally 2D of damage, say) rolled 4 over on his to-hit roll, he'd get to roll 6D6 for damage, but with a -3 on every die he still might not do a lot of damage. Against a target in really good armor like combat armor or battledress you needed a weapon with good penetration.

 

[EvilDrGanymede]

If in doubt, I say screw the rules and use common sense

. If you get shot fully in the head by anything, you're either going to be dead or severely brain damaged/handicapped. And I don't think anyone can reasonably be expected to survive more than two or three bullet wounds at once without immediate medical attention.

 

[EvilDrGanymede]

If in doubt, I say screw the rules and use common sense

. If you get shot fully in the head by anything, you're either going to be dead or severely brain damaged/handicapped. And I don't think anyone can reasonably be expected to survive more than two or three bullet wounds at once without immediate medical attention.

 

[kaladorn]

Originally posted by salamander:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by kaladorn:
So in CT, isn't it impossible to die from one shot?

The "coup de grace" rule can be stretched to cover this. Death is automatic.

Eg. You sneak up behind a person and fire into the back of his head. The ref can rule that, since your attack was a surprise, no struggle occured and coup de grace applies. </font>[/QUOTE]Probably, but I'm just talking about catching that one round in the temple or in the windpipe or whatnot. Happens enough in the real world.

 

[kaladorn]

Originally posted by salamander:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by kaladorn:
So in CT, isn't it impossible to die from one shot?

The "coup de grace" rule can be stretched to cover this. Death is automatic.

Eg. You sneak up behind a person and fire into the back of his head. The ref can rule that, since your attack was a surprise, no struggle occured and coup de grace applies. </font>[/QUOTE]Probably, but I'm just talking about catching that one round in the temple or in the windpipe or whatnot. Happens enough in the real world.

 

[Lord Iron Wolf]

Just a point, Traveller is a game and with character generation like it is; getting killed with one shot from a pistol is going to take any enjoyment out of the game for the players. They will switch to something else.

If you really need to kill players, have them suck vaccuum for a couple of minutes. It fits the SF theme of Traveller and restricts mundane deaths.

LIW

 

[Lord Iron Wolf]

Just a point, Traveller is a game and with character generation like it is; getting killed with one shot from a pistol is going to take any enjoyment out of the game for the players. They will switch to something else.

If you really need to kill players, have them suck vaccuum for a couple of minutes. It fits the SF theme of Traveller and restricts mundane deaths.

LIW

 

[salamander]

Originally posted by kaladorn:
Probably, but I'm just talking about catching that one round in the temple or in the windpipe or whatnot. Happens enough in the real world.

Well, from that perspective, CT is probably deficient. Haven't seen Snapshot in a while, but ISTR that it was a little more deadly.

I use ACQ for my combat and I can guarantee that gunfights are lethal affairs.

I think there was a long discussion about CPR weapons and wounding on the TML a while back. I got the sense that most gunshot victims weren't killed outright but bled to death shortly after being seriously wounded.

 

[salamander]

Originally posted by kaladorn:
Probably, but I'm just talking about catching that one round in the temple or in the windpipe or whatnot. Happens enough in the real world.

Well, from that perspective, CT is probably deficient. Haven't seen Snapshot in a while, but ISTR that it was a little more deadly.

I use ACQ for my combat and I can guarantee that gunfights are lethal affairs.

I think there was a long discussion about CPR weapons and wounding on the TML a while back. I got the sense that most gunshot victims weren't killed outright but bled to death shortly after being seriously wounded.

 

[kaladorn]

Originally posted by salamander:
I think there was a long discussion about CPR weapons and wounding on the TML a while back. I got the sense that most gunshot victims weren't killed outright but bled to death shortly after being seriously wounded.

Well, a bullet entering your eye and leaving by way of the base of the spine isn't going to be terribly survivable.

Gun combat actually has a far more variable range than often represented - a .22 can kill you dead, a 50 cal can cause a flesh wound, and you can take a long long time to die even if riddled with 9mm. Humans don't give to being easily modelled.

The problem with CT as a base system is it pretty much can't kill you outright with a pistol.

I'm going to order ACQ very shortly.

And remember, with traveller med tech, the victim is only 'mostly dead' not 'completely dead' usually (with a nod to Miracle Max).

 

[kaladorn]

Originally posted by salamander:
I think there was a long discussion about CPR weapons and wounding on the TML a while back. I got the sense that most gunshot victims weren't killed outright but bled to death shortly after being seriously wounded.

Well, a bullet entering your eye and leaving by way of the base of the spine isn't going to be terribly survivable.

Gun combat actually has a far more variable range than often represented - a .22 can kill you dead, a 50 cal can cause a flesh wound, and you can take a long long time to die even if riddled with 9mm. Humans don't give to being easily modelled.

The problem with CT as a base system is it pretty much can't kill you outright with a pistol.

I'm going to order ACQ very shortly.

And remember, with traveller med tech, the victim is only 'mostly dead' not 'completely dead' usually (with a nod to Miracle Max).