Cargo Generation
- Thread starter RainOfSteel
- Start date
RainOfSteel
SOC-14 1K
Well, at least it presents a bunch of traveller/adventuring tidbits.
As for my questions, I guess I'll have to house-rule the lot of it.
As for my questions, I guess I'll have to house-rule the lot of it.
never. they require dedicated on-call supply. note that this requirement exists in a situation where a naval vessel can communicate with its headquarters at will. in traveller a naval vessel may not be able to contact its supply chain directly for weeks on end. the imperial fleet will have quite a few tenders and supply vessels.
RainOfSteel
SOC-14 1K
never. they require dedicated on-call supply. note that this requirement exists in a situation where a naval vessel can communicate with its headquarters at will. in traveller a naval vessel may not be able to contact its supply chain directly for weeks on end. the imperial fleet will have quite a few tenders and supply vessels. </font>[/QUOTE]I suspected it was something like that.
My house-rule will likely take the form of banning all open passenger and cargo traffic destined for Red Zone worlds.
The automatic stipulation will be that the entirely of such cargos and passengers are only available "on the sly".
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
Kinda slow getting back to this but here's my own opinions...
It is what is available for any particular ship in any week. It matters not how many of your crew go out hunting it always comes down to "What's your Trade Guild Number?" and that's what limits the available choices. The Imperium is nothing if not bureaucratic.
IMTU, based on the old CT fact that the only Trader a PC was going to have to start with was the old Free-Trader that is what the trade charts are geared towards as a game mechanic. So acquisition of a Free-Trader included membership in the Free-Traders Guild. If you wanted to move up you'd have to join the Subsidzed Merchants Guild by getting a ship and route. If you want to try to trade in your detached duty Scout it'll be black market, ahem, sorry, small package trade
only. No cargo or passengers, though you could speculate.
Another related dodge, since I brought it up, is "What if I buy some speculative cargo here and store it for a week and resell it at a profit?"
Well, IMTU, whenever you accept goods for transport, whether frieght or speculative, it gets stamped "For Export Only". It won't be allowed back in this port until it stamped as "Import" in another port. Of course at that time you could turn around and reship it as "For Export Only" and take it back where you got it where it will be a legitimate "Import" again. What fun
Next question?
You answered your question and then got sidetracked. A good sidetrack it was though. The question had to be asked to be answered.
It is what is available for any particular ship in any week. It matters not how many of your crew go out hunting it always comes down to "What's your Trade Guild Number?" and that's what limits the available choices. The Imperium is nothing if not bureaucratic.
IMTU, based on the old CT fact that the only Trader a PC was going to have to start with was the old Free-Trader that is what the trade charts are geared towards as a game mechanic. So acquisition of a Free-Trader included membership in the Free-Traders Guild. If you wanted to move up you'd have to join the Subsidzed Merchants Guild by getting a ship and route. If you want to try to trade in your detached duty Scout it'll be black market, ahem, sorry, small package trade
only. No cargo or passengers, though you could speculate.Another related dodge, since I brought it up, is "What if I buy some speculative cargo here and store it for a week and resell it at a profit?"
Well, IMTU, whenever you accept goods for transport, whether frieght or speculative, it gets stamped "For Export Only". It won't be allowed back in this port until it stamped as "Import" in another port. Of course at that time you could turn around and reship it as "For Export Only" and take it back where you got it where it will be a legitimate "Import" again. What fun
Next question?
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
Ugh, yeah, charters. Right now I want it to stay just as is since it's in my own best interest in a situation
but I've never been too comfortable with the way it is either.I guess to argue in favor of the treatment you could say that no one is forcing you to charter your ship, only that if you do it is at those rates.
So the owner of that 800ton Merchant Cruiser looking to make the huge payments is not going to charter his ship to a bunch of tourists. Of course if the ship is paid off and it's not needed for anything else then at least it will generate some income and keep the crew busy for a couple weeks.
And on the other side of it the discount for someone chartering the ship is not all that huge.
Don't forget you only get a ship loan with a sound payment plan, and for a new ship a charter business is not likely to fly with the bank. Now if you buy a ship for cash (10% discount on top of the 20% if it's a standard design) maybe charters will pay. Or if you buy some 40 year old ship (good for a 50% discount on the original price) a modest charter plan will probably make you a good profit. It's all in the numbers.
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
My take is if you don't accept the passengers requesting double-occupancy rates they'll go somewhere else and you'll have even more empty staterooms.
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
This is a tougher one and will require working out the traffic of the system and a whole host of things I'm hoping might still be covered in the delayed T20 Starports book. Off hand I guess it really doesn't matter for most games since you're unlikely to have several PC's each with a ship landing at the same port at the same time.
I did once have some numbers worked out for port traffic based on the encounter percentages and such but it was for CT and I'm not sure where the notes are or if I remember it much. I started working out the same stuff for T20, shortly before the Starports idea was kicked off and so I put it aside to see what came of that. Maybe it's time to track it down and continue.
Part of what I was concerned with was the maximum trade, and part was the port capacity for landing to access that trade, and repairs and maintenance. It's a pain when you've hit three ports in a row that can't fit you in for annual maintenance, and it's already overdue by 2 months and every port master tells you the same thing, "You really should have reserved a slip months ago, or at your last maintenance."
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
Now you're thinking like a Trader
What if the Captain fills stateroom #4 with one High Passenger, and then tries to persuade the remaining four to all take Double Occupency? Will they? While roleplaying it can handle the situation, the Cargo section is an abstracted model, so there probably needs to be an automatic rule to handle it.
EDIT-----------------
I suppose we can adopt a rule that says the passengers must be fit into staterooms according to the stated Single and Double Occupency desires without modification, but Players in actual games will try to get by that the first time it happens, so I view it at the least desireable alternative.
EDIT-----------------
If the above comes to pass, the three High Passengers who chose Double Occupency against their initial desires find out that one High Passenger got the Single Occupency they desired, there is a high likelihood that one or more of those three will go ballisticly angry. In a real system of selection of many passengers into limited staterooms where one or more passengers will wind up better off than the others, there would have to be a lottery system to render fairness. [/quote]Basically as I see it the Captain is bound by the law of privilege. You must first accomodate all Single High Passage tickets, then Double High Passage tickets, then Single Mid Passage tickets, then Double Mid Passage tickets. Again what you roll is what you get, those interested in Double Passage will be asking for it and those buying Single Passage don't want to share a stateroom. Of course there is one hinted exception...
Once you have filled your staterooms you inform the others that you cannot give them passage at the desired rate. Here it gets foggy. The rules say that passengers may then upgrade their ticket to bump another passenger but it does not say how to handle this.
In CT the old 8+ roll works fine for each of the disappointed passengers to decide to upgrade.
In T20 I'd say make a check vs each passenger's Soc score. Roll under and they will upgrade one level, roll over and they can't afford to. Apply any passenger table modifiers. If the first level of upgrade still leaves passengers waiting check those that upgraded or were bumped to see if they upgrade further. Of course Single High Passage is the highest* you can go, legally
though I'd be tempted to check beyond and call it a bribe, under the table, just between you and me
Secondary to this I can also see those high and/or mid passsengers who you can't accomodate possibly being interested in booking low passage if available.
* for a standard stateroom, I came up with a Grand Passage ticket for a recent JTAS contest, details here:
INSIDE - the Grand Traveller
I think it was posted earlier too but couldn't find it. Besides this is (I think) a slightly corrected version.
Six of the Middle Passengers will do Double Occupency. This fills 3 staterooms aboard a Far Trader. Only one (if we round down) of the High Passengers is willing to do Double Occupency. The Captain fills two of the last three staterooms (the first three being taken up by Double Occupency Middle Passengers) with High Passengers as Single Occupency, and then contacts two of the last three High Passengers waiting (including the one willing to do Double Occupency, of course), and offers the last stateroom on Double Occupency for the discounted rate (Cr8,000 ea.). Does this High Passenger desiring Single Occupency switch (under our abstract model) and go Double Occupency anyway, in order to save money?
What if the Captain fills stateroom #4 with one High Passenger, and then tries to persuade the remaining four to all take Double Occupency? Will they? While roleplaying it can handle the situation, the Cargo section is an abstracted model, so there probably needs to be an automatic rule to handle it.
EDIT-----------------
I suppose we can adopt a rule that says the passengers must be fit into staterooms according to the stated Single and Double Occupency desires without modification, but Players in actual games will try to get by that the first time it happens, so I view it at the least desireable alternative.
EDIT-----------------
If the above comes to pass, the three High Passengers who chose Double Occupency against their initial desires find out that one High Passenger got the Single Occupency they desired, there is a high likelihood that one or more of those three will go ballisticly angry. In a real system of selection of many passengers into limited staterooms where one or more passengers will wind up better off than the others, there would have to be a lottery system to render fairness. [/quote]Basically as I see it the Captain is bound by the law of privilege. You must first accomodate all Single High Passage tickets, then Double High Passage tickets, then Single Mid Passage tickets, then Double Mid Passage tickets. Again what you roll is what you get, those interested in Double Passage will be asking for it and those buying Single Passage don't want to share a stateroom. Of course there is one hinted exception...
Once you have filled your staterooms you inform the others that you cannot give them passage at the desired rate. Here it gets foggy. The rules say that passengers may then upgrade their ticket to bump another passenger but it does not say how to handle this.
In CT the old 8+ roll works fine for each of the disappointed passengers to decide to upgrade.
In T20 I'd say make a check vs each passenger's Soc score. Roll under and they will upgrade one level, roll over and they can't afford to. Apply any passenger table modifiers. If the first level of upgrade still leaves passengers waiting check those that upgraded or were bumped to see if they upgrade further. Of course Single High Passage is the highest* you can go, legally
Secondary to this I can also see those high and/or mid passsengers who you can't accomodate possibly being interested in booking low passage if available.
* for a standard stateroom, I came up with a Grand Passage ticket for a recent JTAS contest, details here:
INSIDE - the Grand Traveller
I think it was posted earlier too but couldn't find it. Besides this is (I think) a slightly corrected version.
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
You can? Maybe it's our definitions of numerous that clash
The only cargo for a Red Zone is Priority, Security or Hazardous. You only get those originating on average and above pop worlds which is the first limitation. For Security cargo you usually need to be armed which limits the ships capable of taking it. And since these are the only types available and they are all in the single ton size you're not going to get a lot. That's not to say they won't pay.
Passengers are the same story, no middle or low passengers, just one roll on the high passage table.
I like the explantion of "Official Business" to explain it. You are carrying material and/or personnel involved with the workings of whatever is the reason for the Red Zone. You will be allowed to use the facilities, escorted closely all the way in and out. If it wasn't for your legit reasons in the system you'd be escorted out under threat as soon as you were spotted arriving.
I suppose you could go with the option of making it a clandestine enterprise, I'd probably make that a secret referee roll, and then another roll for if they present it as:
1 - Legit - "We have all the proper clearances" until you actually jump when they will either hi-jack your ship or lay their cards on the table in which case you are an accomplice
2 - Illegal - "We have an offer you may find interesting, but it's not stictly legal..."
This brings up how I roll for cargo and passengers. Basically I make a roll for each system within range based on the ship's jump then let the players decide based on what's available where they will actually go, unless they announce upon arrival that they are only interested in one destination. IMTU all bookings are made upon arrival and after announcement of destination. The week is required for unloading and loading, deliveries and processing. This all happens over a d6-1 days and can be accelerated by paying priority fees, incentives for early arrival and/or bribes*. As passengers arrive they will be expecting to board and settle in, sometimes for the whole time the ship is in port. This is why you have to buy two weeks of life support for a one week jump.
* off the top of my head something like DC 20 vs appropriate skill and value of 1% the value of the cargo or passage per day early, rerolls possible but add 1% per day early for each additional attempt
RainOfSteel
SOC-14 1K
Well, here's an example of what I've got so far.
It needs some cleaning up in presentation.
Right now, you enter in the player skills, the origin world's stats, the number of destination worlds, all those world's stats, and away it goes.
As soon as I get some internal issues and a couple of bugs tracked down, I'll begin tackling the Speculative Trade section. It may take a few days, I'm only putting in an hour or two at a time, and I'm a novice with the scripting system I'm using (Table Smith: see the links at the bottom). Mail and Charters will be added on later, along with some other nebulous features (like saving output to files, etc.).
Cargos Available for: Ianic; From: Lunion
Priority Cargo(s): 16 Lots (in dTons) 5, 2, 3, 4, 3, 4, 2, 1, 2, 6, 1, 1, 3, 3, 1, 6
Hazardous Cargo(s): 12 Lots (in dTons) 4, 2, 6, 6, 2, 6, 6, 3, 5, 1, 3, 1
Security Cargo(s): 16 Lots (in dTons) 5, 6, 3, 1, 3, 1, 2, 5, 2, 3, 3, 5, 4, 1, 3, 6
Major Cargo(s): 16 Lots (in dTons) 20, 40, 60, 20, 10, 20, 40, 40, 10, 10, 20, 50, 50, 60, 50, 30
Minor Cargo(s): 20 Lots (in dTons) 20, 5, 15, 20, 25, 10, 20, 20, 30, 30, 30, 25, 10, 20, 15, 15, 5, 5, 20, 5
Incidental Cargo(s) 10 Lots (in dTons) 2, 6, 2, 5, 5, 2, 4, 6, 3, 5
Passengers Available for: Ianic; From: Lunion
High Passenger(s) = 18 (7 elect for Double Occupency)
Middle Passenger(s) = 18 (5 elect for Double Occupency)
Low Passenger(s) = 31
TableSmith Links:
Mythosa
Yahoo TableSmith Support Group
It needs some cleaning up in presentation.
Right now, you enter in the player skills, the origin world's stats, the number of destination worlds, all those world's stats, and away it goes.
As soon as I get some internal issues and a couple of bugs tracked down, I'll begin tackling the Speculative Trade section. It may take a few days, I'm only putting in an hour or two at a time, and I'm a novice with the scripting system I'm using (Table Smith: see the links at the bottom). Mail and Charters will be added on later, along with some other nebulous features (like saving output to files, etc.).
Cargos Available for: Ianic; From: Lunion
Priority Cargo(s): 16 Lots (in dTons) 5, 2, 3, 4, 3, 4, 2, 1, 2, 6, 1, 1, 3, 3, 1, 6
Hazardous Cargo(s): 12 Lots (in dTons) 4, 2, 6, 6, 2, 6, 6, 3, 5, 1, 3, 1
Security Cargo(s): 16 Lots (in dTons) 5, 6, 3, 1, 3, 1, 2, 5, 2, 3, 3, 5, 4, 1, 3, 6
Major Cargo(s): 16 Lots (in dTons) 20, 40, 60, 20, 10, 20, 40, 40, 10, 10, 20, 50, 50, 60, 50, 30
Minor Cargo(s): 20 Lots (in dTons) 20, 5, 15, 20, 25, 10, 20, 20, 30, 30, 30, 25, 10, 20, 15, 15, 5, 5, 20, 5
Incidental Cargo(s) 10 Lots (in dTons) 2, 6, 2, 5, 5, 2, 4, 6, 3, 5
Passengers Available for: Ianic; From: Lunion
High Passenger(s) = 18 (7 elect for Double Occupency)
Middle Passenger(s) = 18 (5 elect for Double Occupency)
Low Passenger(s) = 31
TableSmith Links:
Mythosa
Yahoo TableSmith Support Group
