This may sound like a stupid question, but would you buy an adventure written for the Cepheus engine, or do you prefer other versions of Traveller for adventures?
Cepheus adventures
- Thread starter Blue Ghost
- Start date
An adventure being written for Cepheus vs. Classic Traveller or Mongoose Traveller wouldn't impact my decision much. More key would be how easy the adventure is to use in my campaign. These three are all close enough that I can easily modify any stats that don't fit (but I might not even care if some NPC in an adventure has skill I don't use in my game, so the NPC say has Recon-2, I don't use it in my game, but it can still inform my play of the NPC).
Frank
I'm not greatly enamored of the system as being 'better' and so the underlying mechanics are not critical.
I'm more interested in the content creators being forced to non-3I/OTU material, producing unique adventures that would otherwise not be published under T5 or MgT universes.
I'm more interested in the content creators being forced to non-3I/OTU material, producing unique adventures that would otherwise not be published under T5 or MgT universes.
baktegon
SOC-12
i was on drivethruRPG.com a while ago and found a ton of interesting system-agnostic adventures. particularly i like the ideas that author Michael Brown is selling.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse/pub/9030/Michael-Brown
i bought one of his bundles (Vol. 2 i believe) and it has some neat ideas. these are single page adventures that are probably good for one sessions, which is what i'm looking for in my campaign.
i'm also running a version of Night City from Cyberpunk 2020 but instead of California it's on a world in the Ley sector. Brown wrote a noir-flavored Las Vegas adventure that I think will fit in there too. System-agnostics for the win!
I do like written adventures though, i know traveller doesn't go that route as often as something like D&D, but i appreciate at least the background info so i can make up the details on top of it. these one page adventures are nice cause they give a little more info or a few characters than a traditional adventure seed, but not so much that there isn't fun to be had with additions.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse/pub/9030/Michael-Brown
i bought one of his bundles (Vol. 2 i believe) and it has some neat ideas. these are single page adventures that are probably good for one sessions, which is what i'm looking for in my campaign.
i'm also running a version of Night City from Cyberpunk 2020 but instead of California it's on a world in the Ley sector. Brown wrote a noir-flavored Las Vegas adventure that I think will fit in there too. System-agnostics for the win!
I do like written adventures though, i know traveller doesn't go that route as often as something like D&D, but i appreciate at least the background info so i can make up the details on top of it. these one page adventures are nice cause they give a little more info or a few characters than a traditional adventure seed, but not so much that there isn't fun to be had with additions.
..................... this ......is, what, ...... I was going, to do, but some "expert" "top in his field" entertainment "lawyer" said I couldn't.
... Is there a Cepheus rep on the COTI I can talk to who's an expert in Traveller?
baktegon
SOC-12
being system-agnostic, i'm not sure why you couldn't write some and sell them. They're "compatible" with any science fiction game I'd think. they're basically like single Star Trek episode summaries.
"The players are contracted to move X to Y, hijinx ensue."
I like Michael Brown's ones because there's a lot of variety, I'm going to take one or two of each and set them on the planets in my campaign, then when the players get there, i can use them. plus they have nice little background text i can read for flavor.
blue ghost! get out there and write your own buddy! i'll happily test them on my players too if you'd like feedback.
A LOT of folks don't get how the OGL interacts with copyright. (I may be one of them, also, I'm not a lawyer)
Based on my own understanding of it, game rules can't be copyrighted. Only the 'specific presentation' can. Additionally, things could be trademarked (Almost anything 3I specific).
In a lot of ways, the OGL made making 3rd party products less scary ("Can I say Hit Points? How about Cleric?") by drawing a clear line from game rules and product identity (what we reserve the right to fight over), and allowed you to copy and paste OGL content word for word. It didn't actually grant you anything you couldn't already do (describe a game in your own words)
Based on the d20 OSR movement, there's a lot that was originally WotC product identity that isn't so any longer (rolling 4d6 drop low for attributes, and xp for levels are the first two that come to mind). They didn't fight over these, I suppose they still could, but since Pathfinder is a thing that WotC would have probably at some time liked to make go away, I'd suggest that WotC/Hasbro didn't see it worthwhile to die on that hill.
Based on my own understanding of it, game rules can't be copyrighted. Only the 'specific presentation' can. Additionally, things could be trademarked (Almost anything 3I specific).
In a lot of ways, the OGL made making 3rd party products less scary ("Can I say Hit Points? How about Cleric?") by drawing a clear line from game rules and product identity (what we reserve the right to fight over), and allowed you to copy and paste OGL content word for word. It didn't actually grant you anything you couldn't already do (describe a game in your own words)
Based on the d20 OSR movement, there's a lot that was originally WotC product identity that isn't so any longer (rolling 4d6 drop low for attributes, and xp for levels are the first two that come to mind). They didn't fight over these, I suppose they still could, but since Pathfinder is a thing that WotC would have probably at some time liked to make go away, I'd suggest that WotC/Hasbro didn't see it worthwhile to die on that hill.
Nightwind1
SOC-12
The lawyer probably doesn't know anything about tabletop gaming or the OGL.
creativehum
SOC-14 1K
CE was built with pieces drawn from an OGL of MgT1 and D20 (as I understand it). Thus, all the pieces of the rules are usable by you for published material.
You cannot mention the word "Traveller." (Instead it is a CE game... and you note this in the product according to the license elements found in CE.)
You cannot mention any elements of the Official Traveller Universe IP. (Thus, no Third Imperium. No names of worlds from the OTU. And so on.)
As long you a) stick to the rules of CE; b) invent your own material and use nothing from the OTU; and c) don't mention Traveller you should (as far as I understand the matter) be good to go.
For what it is worth: The above is exactly why CE was built in the first place.
You cannot mention the word "Traveller." (Instead it is a CE game... and you note this in the product according to the license elements found in CE.)
You cannot mention any elements of the Official Traveller Universe IP. (Thus, no Third Imperium. No names of worlds from the OTU. And so on.)
As long you a) stick to the rules of CE; b) invent your own material and use nothing from the OTU; and c) don't mention Traveller you should (as far as I understand the matter) be good to go.
For what it is worth: The above is exactly why CE was built in the first place.
Well, Ian Stead publishes art for Traveller using Cepheus. I asked him why, but I didn't ask him how he did it.
No, he doesn't. If he did, he'd be in a lot of trouble.
He has used the Mongoose TAS program to create Traveller ships. He has used the Cepheus Engine to create ships of his own devising.
I agree with this completely.
pendragonman
Absent Friends Margrave
If you describe the planet, without naming the planet, you should be ok:
IE "This system has a rich main world with a shirt-sleeve atmosphere, a few continents and a balance of available surface water. (approximately 20% land and approximately 80% water). The system supports a population in the 100's of millions, which makes it too urbanized to make an agricultural world. This world contains a archaeological site with suspected high-tech remnants of the now-vanished precursor race. The world serves as the capital for the nearby group of systems. The main world is a satellite of a gas giant rather than the star in the system. It is a member of a large empire of thousands of systems with the local region of space spinward of the capitol of the empire, part of a Ducal domain consisting of hundreds of nearby stars whose seat is elsewhere in the region. This system, as a member world of this empire, holds the estate of an Imperial knight, a baronet, and the feifdoms of a baron, a viscount, and the duke that oversees the nearby systems (this duke is a lesser duke than the Duke mentioned previously). All five are members of the Imperial Nobility charged with overseeing the world. This world has a nearby Naval Base, capable of handling warships and a Scout Base, capable of handling Scout Service starships and personnel. This is the homeworld to a Minor Sentient Race, that make up 20% of the system's population. Less than 20% of the world's population made up of 2 non human (~10% each), but nevertheless major (when compared to the number of planets they appear on or control) races.
So if you want to kickoff at Regina, but don't want to possibly have issues with trademark infringement you could use the above.
IE "This system has a rich main world with a shirt-sleeve atmosphere, a few continents and a balance of available surface water. (approximately 20% land and approximately 80% water). The system supports a population in the 100's of millions, which makes it too urbanized to make an agricultural world. This world contains a archaeological site with suspected high-tech remnants of the now-vanished precursor race. The world serves as the capital for the nearby group of systems. The main world is a satellite of a gas giant rather than the star in the system. It is a member of a large empire of thousands of systems with the local region of space spinward of the capitol of the empire, part of a Ducal domain consisting of hundreds of nearby stars whose seat is elsewhere in the region. This system, as a member world of this empire, holds the estate of an Imperial knight, a baronet, and the feifdoms of a baron, a viscount, and the duke that oversees the nearby systems (this duke is a lesser duke than the Duke mentioned previously). All five are members of the Imperial Nobility charged with overseeing the world. This world has a nearby Naval Base, capable of handling warships and a Scout Base, capable of handling Scout Service starships and personnel. This is the homeworld to a Minor Sentient Race, that make up 20% of the system's population. Less than 20% of the world's population made up of 2 non human (~10% each), but nevertheless major (when compared to the number of planets they appear on or control) races.
So if you want to kickoff at Regina, but don't want to possibly have issues with trademark infringement you could use the above.
He does, it's just that this is kind of a nebulous area, and I probably shouldn't be quoting him here since my memory may not be accurate. He was the third or fourth lawyer I consulted with, and I'm inclined to stick with the lawyer I consulted with before him. Again, I probably shouldn't discuss what was said.
Needless to say what I wanted to do verse what I could do in terms of publishing adventures for Traveller verse general scifi adventures, was an issue.
I've mentioned this before, I had a time travel adventure that I was really proud of, but Marc Miller does like, or does not allow, or otherwise frowns upon time travel in the OTU. It had adventurers looking at a slice of Grandfather's war with his kids, and I had some pretty detailed scene description for the opening scenes to draw in the players. I still have it, and wanted to get it out there in some form or another. If not for Traveller, then as a generic adventure that didn't take place in the OTU.
I've got ideas that I like for the OTU, and other ideas which wouldn't fit and that I'd like to publish without the Traveller name attached.
I've got an additional 35+ concepts in various draft form on my other hard drive apart from the seeds on my blog. I think some would be really rocking for the OTU. Others probably would go better elsewhere.
The thing I like about Traveller, other than growing up with it, is that it's not "far out" in terms of themes like some of the other scifi properties out there (books, games, comics). It's a well grounded "universe" or setting, and it invites challenges to the players. That's part of how I create. It's not the only way I create, but it's one of the things that kind of drives me to create for this game and other things.
Years back I bought the Blackmoore D&D series of adventures for a Traveller session. For those not in the know the Blackmoore trilogy of D&D adventures were AD&D's "science fiction" series for mid to high level characters, where a Federation starship (not Star Trek) had crash landed on Greyhawk. I liked the premise, I liked the cover art, I liked the contents inside. And I wanted to create my own version of Traveller dudes romping around in a fantasy world, as an example of some of the things I'd like to do.
I could go on, but you get the idea.
Traveller isn't the end all. I've got stories in prose, screenplay, and game formats on both my personal wetware and computer hard-drives. And part of the whole process here is to see what I can and cannot do, and not cheat Marc Miller nor cross any verboten lines as I attempt to contribute here and elsewhere.
Thanks for the replies. They do help.
p.s. sorry for speechifying creativity, but it's a topic I like.
p.p.s. for those interested, if you can get a back issue, I did write an adventure for GURPS Traveller's version of JTAS called "Castles and Dragons". You might enjoy it.
It's funny. I have an adventure drafted up where the players explore (or perhaps even fight off) a planet and city left on automation. And it's one of those adventures where I could stick in a generic non OTU setting, or slip it into and onto one of the many (hundreds) of habitable worlds in the Imperium (or perhaps outside of the Imperium).
Someone mentioned in another thread elsewhere on the BBS that the Imperium was confining and restricting, and I find that I agree with that on occasion, because some of the concepts I have require that I write up the whole "who's in charge" and what titles and military or security forces are in the area.
Shoehorning a full fledged adventure into an official setting is sometimes requires a bit more work to the point where the pleasure is lost in creating the material. Not always, but it's like when I've written stuff for Traveller I sometimes sag my shoulders and sigh thinking "Oh yeah, I got to stick it over here ... what year is it? Who's in charge? What's happening during this time?"
Not a big deal, but you get the picture.
middenface
SOC-12
Well as 'Moon Toad' I did publish a few ships for Traveller, HOWEVER they where under the Mongoose Traveller SRD, before that TAS thing came out.
Any ships since then are done under CE, they do NOT mention any Traveller 3I references and they are not 3I designs (specification wise or visually). I think they are better due to that, so they can be shoe horned into any setting. Those ships are not 3I designs either. I do have a ship coming up inspired by a 3I design, BUT IT IS not a 3I design.
This answers the questions about ships I publish, I DO NOT PUBLISH TRAVELLER ART. I might do some for fun and all that, but it is not published.
As I have said twice to you at least. You cannot publish 3I material unless you go thru Marc using T5 or using the Mongoose TAS system.
I cannot publish Traveller ships, unless I use TAS. Which I doubt I ever will, which is a shame really. I love some of the 3I designs, but how TAS works seriously makes it not worth it.
I appreciate a clear directive and response directly from you, Ian. Much appreciated.
BG,
Writing adventures is a simple process which you seem to be making more complicated than it is. If you want to make an adventure like the ones you keep talking about, you need to pick one of the following options:
1> Contact Marc Miller. Try to work out a contract with him to allow you to publish the adventure. This will allow you to use the OTU, any of Marc's rule sets, and anything else Marc allows in that contract.
2> Use the TAS system. This will allow you to use the OTU but you will be forced to use Mongoose's second edition rules. Between Mongoose, Marc, and OBS, they will take 50% of your money off the top. Mongoose will own your IP.
3> Use Cepheus Engine. This will allow you to use the Cepheus Engine rules. You will need to make your own setting or have it be without a setting. Follow the rather simple rules in the back of the CE book as to what legal phrases to add to the book.
4> Approach a CE publisher about publishing the adventure for you. Contact one of the existing publishers and work out a deal with them. This may allow you to use one of the existing settings that are now out there.
5> Start your own game with your own rules and write the adventure for that.
6> Just don't write it.
I feel as if I've talked to you about this a million times before this. I don't know why you keep trying to make this more complicated than it is. You write good stuff and you really should write some more.
In short: Just do it!
Writing adventures is a simple process which you seem to be making more complicated than it is. If you want to make an adventure like the ones you keep talking about, you need to pick one of the following options:
1> Contact Marc Miller. Try to work out a contract with him to allow you to publish the adventure. This will allow you to use the OTU, any of Marc's rule sets, and anything else Marc allows in that contract.
2> Use the TAS system. This will allow you to use the OTU but you will be forced to use Mongoose's second edition rules. Between Mongoose, Marc, and OBS, they will take 50% of your money off the top. Mongoose will own your IP.
3> Use Cepheus Engine. This will allow you to use the Cepheus Engine rules. You will need to make your own setting or have it be without a setting. Follow the rather simple rules in the back of the CE book as to what legal phrases to add to the book.
4> Approach a CE publisher about publishing the adventure for you. Contact one of the existing publishers and work out a deal with them. This may allow you to use one of the existing settings that are now out there.
5> Start your own game with your own rules and write the adventure for that.
6> Just don't write it.
I feel as if I've talked to you about this a million times before this. I don't know why you keep trying to make this more complicated than it is. You write good stuff and you really should write some more.
In short: Just do it!
Mister Watts
I consulted more than three separate attorneys on what I could and could not do in terms of writing for games, including one who knows the field inside and out. And that's the best response I can give you.
Thanks.
I consulted more than three separate attorneys on what I could and could not do in terms of writing for games, including one who knows the field inside and out. And that's the best response I can give you.
Thanks.
