Character Creation

[Sicarius]

Or you can take some initiative, head over to the wiki, make a page for rolling up one character of each type, document your process and let folks know what you did.

If you're confused in the process, find an inconsistency, document it, make a choice by fiat to get past the hurdle and carry on.

If there are errors, folks can read and correct them. One thing we've learned folks are great at kibitzing and not so much at creating. So get the hard part done and I'm sure folks will pile on.

You should think about the $170 bucks I have spent on these rules and perhaps assume that I deserve a table ready product. If I wanted to create the game I wouldn't have bought one ready made. Your point is no different than saying one must be an engineer and mechanic to successfully drive his new car. Sorry, but I think your comment is absurd. Read a couple reviews from 'professional' game reviewers or look on YouTube and you will see most people end with 'game unplayable as is'. Nobody says that about most other games. If I told my customers that they should 'take some initiative' and make a how to manual for my product they day they bought it they would kick my arrogant ass to the curb. And I would deserve it. Factor in the fact that a person confused about the product and looking for support might not be the best one to teach others. Just a thought. I am asking for help over these hurdles while pointing out issues that are confusing me. No bitching, just seeking guidance. Once again, I am not alone in that. Sorry if you thought I was simply complaining but if you actually read what I wrote you might see otherwise.

 

[Sicarius]

Initial Fame is not rolled during character generation unless called for by the rules (Entertainer career). Scouts get fame +4 for discoveries, Entertainers roll fame flux each term. Otherwise it just appears occasionally for other careers.

It may not help you to understand the process completely, but I've written an iPad app, Citizens of the Imperium, that walks you through the process of character generation for all the careers.

Thank you agoeski for the help. I think what is confusing me in Fame is that the table on page 91 has a heading of Mult, which I read as multiplier. Also, Scout has x4, NOT +4. When we did math the old way x means multiply and + meant add. In the same table Imperial Noble has a +1, Merchant has 1D, (no x or +).

And I might be missing it but but I have not found any section which says what starting Fame is. Except Citizen, which is 0.

 

[Sicarius]

Scouts receive Fame +1 per successful reward roll when generating their career. Final fame is generated post-career, so when that scout retires, he multiplies his Discoveries (which is what they call the reward success) by x4 to determine final fame.

Thank you Panzerkraken! Now that you point this out it makes perfect sense.

 

[Sicarius]

I noticed that whenever anyone generates a T5 character in these forums he gets it wrong and several people chime in pointing out flaws in his process. Part of the problem seems to be that each character type has individual systems and examples are rarely given. Compare to GURPS. In GURPS you can pretty much create unlimited character types, or templates, yet because they all share the same structure and generation methods its far less confusing than T5. Same goes for BRP by Chaosium. I would love to have a character example or two from Mr. Miller for each type. That is the kind of How-To I'm talking about. I have written my own MUD engine using C and Obj-C with GNUstep and find some of T5 confusing!:xh:
That said, I think the system scope is awesome and filled with potential and I certainly appreciate the help from COTI. The slipcase set brings me back to my days in grade schools playing with the 3 BBs until Benny Hill came on at midnight when we would take a break. CT is a shining example of OSRP and had just enough to express a fertile imagination. Sometimes I think that was the golden years of gaming. Likely because I am entering my golden years and the mind wanders to days gone by.

 

[aramis]

Sure. But this is T5. A galactic game that's being published on a galactic time frame. The game and ruleset has been a "work in progress" for, what, 12+ years now?

More like about 20 years. IIRC, Marc started bouncing ideas off some fans in about 1999. About the time it was clear IG was out of the Traveller business.

 

[whartung]

I am asking for help over these hurdles while pointing out issues that are confusing me. No bitching, just seeking guidance. Once again, I am not alone in that. Sorry if you thought I was simply complaining but if you actually read what I wrote you might see otherwise.

And I offered guidance.

Roll up a character, document your thought processes, demonstrate the areas you have questions, the assumptions you made to carry it out, and put it on the wiki, and discuss it here.

Why?

So that not only could others offer insight in to the work, they can CHANGE IT and make it a living document of the char gen system for others to find, thus helping not just yourself, but the community in general. This, in contrast to a post on the forum which is (mostly) static. And also more difficult to discover. It also provides Yet More insight for the designer(s) as to issues players have with the current system.

If this turns out to be a good exercise, perhaps you, or someone else, would enjoy doing another one until each of the types (as you mentioned) has a well documented use case with the rough edges smoothed over and clarified.

As to the state of the rules, and whether this kind of content should or should not have been in the existing 12,000 page book set isn't really germane. The rules are the rules in the state they are in. That's the reality on this day.

Now it's just a matter of what we make of it.

 

[Sicarius]

And I offered guidance.

Roll up a character, document your thought processes, demonstrate the areas you have questions, the assumptions you made to carry it out, and put it on the wiki, and discuss it here.

Why?

So that not only could others offer insight in to the work, they can CHANGE IT and make it a living document of the char gen system for others to find, thus helping not just yourself, but the community in general. This, in contrast to a post on the forum which is (mostly) static. And also more difficult to discover. It also provides Yet More insight for the designer(s) as to issues players have with the current system.

If this turns out to be a good exercise, perhaps you, or someone else, would enjoy doing another one until each of the types (as you mentioned) has a well documented use case with the rough edges smoothed over and clarified.

As to the state of the rules, and whether this kind of content should or should not have been in the existing 12,000 page book set isn't really germane. The rules are the rules in the state they are in. That's the reality on this day.

Now it's just a matter of what we make of it.

That is certainly not what you said or how you said it.

Being helpful is not the way you proposed it. You said 'take some initiative'. I was. I specifically pointed out an issue I was experiencing with Scouts and Fame. I included the basic character I was working with. I gave examples of how I was confused about generating it. Some people helped me out and I now have a much clearer picture.

You indicated all I was doing was complaining. You were not trying to help you were taking a swipe at me. At least be honest if you wont be helpful.

If not a community to help and discuss what is a game forum for? Why not just cancel COTL and we can all cruise and post at wiki?

This is a game. A toy. If someone can help me without me having to waste a lot of time and energy which I believe is better spent on a million other things than I appreciate that greatly.

School consists of students, study material, teachers and work. While doing the work students consult the materials, fellow students and teachers. In this case I am the student, the PDF and Books are the materials. I was doing the work and expressing where I was confused. I paid for the materials and finding students and 'teachers' was my goal. I have no desire to write the text book for free. Especially when I am confused and my writings would just immortalize my ignorance and confuse others.

Hope that clarifies my position as I really did not come here to fight. I came to get some help.

 

[coliver988]

I've joined the January Character Challenge and my 1st one was a T5 character. If this is the sort of thing we want to post in the Wiki (and I agree that it is a good place to put this) let me know and I can transcribe this version (which I am not convinced I did correctly!) to the Wiki. Notes and directions are only useful if discoverable, and as mentioned, things get buried in this forum (there is a lot of gold buried in COTI!)

https://traveller-ct.blogspot.com/2021/01/character-challenge-1-of-31-t5-spacer.html

 

[coliver988]

I also have a couple examples I worked through on my blog for the character challenge that includes the dice rolls. I am not convinced I did them all correctly as there is a bit of wiggle room in interpreting the rules. But I was feeling more confident by the last entry (getting posted tomorrow but added below). All the challenge posts have challenge and characters in them, and the T5 have the Traveller 5.10 tag.

If we want to copy these to the Wiki, I'd be okay with that. It really should have an example for each career as there are differences in the details. There are some random rolls in there

Initial rolls (genetic in parenthesis)
Strength: 11 (5)
Dexterity: 10 (5)
Endurance: 5 (2)
Intelligence: 7 (1)
Education: 5
Social: 7
gender 2, female (personal roll for this challenge, not part of the T5 rules)

Started off with some nice high rolls, but then it went down hill a bit. Looking over the Traveller 5 careers, I can almost guarantee getting into the Marines, and hopefully play off the risk/reward so see if I can get some decorations. Or hurt badly...Though the commission roll is against my endurance so we'll see what happens there.

Home world 3,3 = Yori, a rich, desert planet. Picking up Survival-1, and an art. As there are 6, a 3 gives me Author-1.

Enlistment, Branch selection
Rolling a 7, we're in the Imperial Marines. Boo-ya! I'll roll for the branch, and with my education there is no DM. A 6 = Commando. There is a note for DM of 2 for this branch, which I think is just used as the base DM for the risk/reward roll. The Marine Operations table (aka, branch assignment) table has a set of DMs by branch. Also, the highest mod from the operations is what we use as a DM for the risk/reward roll: apparently no choice?
Term 1 (18-22) Lance Corporal
4 assignments: 4, 4, 3, 3 gives me Missionx2 and Peace Keeperx2. Highest mod is 2. So I'll take the -2 for the risk making it riskier for this term as it goes against my strength of an 11. However, rolling an 11 + 2 gives me 13, so I get a wound badge, and have to roll a flux roll and add that to the 2 for how much I am hurt. I could get really lucky...rolling a 3-2 for +1, I only have to subtract 1 from my strength. Rolling a 5 and subtracting 2 I have a 3 for the reward roll, Looking over at the table, I get a medal for Exemplary service. To get the big ones you have to roll really high...I also get 4 skill rolls. Rolling a 9 I do not make a commission, and a 4 I do get promoted

• M1 Rank, Private: Fighter (Slug Thrower-1)
• M2 Rank, Lance Corporal
• Wounded, strength -1, UPP AA5757
• Personal: 6 = +1 social. UPP AA5758
• Peace Keeper: 2 Fighter (Slug Thrower-1, Beams-1)
• Mission: 5 Leader-1
• Personal: 6 = +1 social. UPP AA5759

Rolling a 4, which is less than the 10/strength I need to continue, I'll continue to term 2.
Term 2 (22-24) 2nd Lieutenant
This term my risk/reward is against my intelligence...depending on the mods I may take a less risky approach. My tour of duty this term is 6, 2, 3, 2 for Combat (DM 3!), Combat (2), Peace Keeper (1) and Combat (2). So there is a 3 DM against the risk/reward. I'll take the cautious route this time: 7 - 3 = 4, so I succeed in the risk, getting an Exemplary Service badge to go with the medal. A 12 on the reward is nothing, especially as I need to add 3 to it. With my social getting bumped, I may get a commission this term: a 5 vs the 9 means yes, I am now a 2nd Lieutenant! I don't know that I can roll for a promotion as well - the order of events in the list would indicate I can't unlike classic Book 1.

• 01 Rank 2nd Lieutenant - Leader-2
• Combat: 5 = Leader-3
• Peace Keeper: 2 = Fighter-1 (Slug Thrower-1, Beam-1)
• Combat: 5 = Leader-4
• Personal: 6 = social +1, UPP AA575A

She is definitely a leader, both in the skills and the social climb she is on. Rolling an 8, our gung-ho Marine can continue.
Term 3 (24-28) 1st Lieutenant
At least we're back to the strength for risk/reward. So depending on the max DM we may make it a bit riskier. 5, 4, 5, 5 gives 3 years of ANM school and a mission. The ANM (Army, Navy, Marines) school info is in the education sections, and for each year she succeeds she gets a knowledge-2 from any of the Marine schools. I can roll under C2 or C3, and obviously will be picking C2 for that 10 or less! A 6 vs my 7 intelligence and I also get promoted. I am also going to assume I get 1 skill roll for that 1 year of the mission though it is not solidly stated.

• Rank 02: 1st Lieutenant
• Mission: 2 = Survival-2
• ANM School: (12, did not learn a damn thing; failed)
• ANM School: 7; Fighter-1 (Slug Thrower-1, Beams-1, Battledress-2)
• ANM School: 7; Driver (Grav-2)

So we lived, got promoted, and spent 3 years in school though we failed the first year. So they sent us back. Rolling a 6, we can continue our career in the Marines.
Term 4 (28-32) 1st Lieutenant
And with the intelligence as the characteristic we roll against this term, I will be using the DM as a note of caution. 5, 6, 1, 2 means ANM School (0), Combat (3), Combat (2) and Combat (2). Having the 3 DM means a 10 or less to avoid wounded, and a 9 squeaks by, so another XS badge for me. Another 9 fails the success so no medals. A 9 means I failed to get promoted this term.

• ANM School; 6: Pilot (Small Craft-2)
• Combat: 4, Soldier Skill: Fighter-2 (Slug Thrower-1, Beam-1, Battledress-2, Unarmed Combat-2)
• Personal: 4, intelligence +1; UPP AA585A
• Combat: 5, Leader-5

She is a bit smarter and one heck of a leader! A 9 allows her to go one more term, and I think we'll do that so we can use the strength of 10 as the controlling characteristic. We may get hurt but we could get lucky.
Term 5 (32-36)
1, 1, 6, 2 for Combat (2)x2, Combat (3) and Combat (2). A 12 means I horribly fail at a promotion, though I do have a +1 from the medal. I have no idea what the WB Mods are. So, risk 10 - 3 = 7, and I roll an 8, failing by 1. And worse, my flux roll is -5 so I lose 6 strength! On the bright side, I do still get 4 rolls which I am supposed to do before the risk/reward roll. So I'll go the way I usually do regardless, and perhaps I'll gain 1 strength back. Regardless, by losing 4 or more points I am discharged from the Marines. Sadly my reward roll of 2 means I really succeed there but only get another XS medal. Had only those rolls been switched (had I been helping a player roll for my game I may have allowed that as that 2 is just that bad!). But I did see 4 years of constant combat this term.

• injured! UPP 4A585A
• Combat: Tactics-1
• Personal: 4, intelligence +1; UPP 4A595A
• Combat: Fighter, Fighter-2 (Slug Thrower-1, Beam-1, Blade-1, Battle Dress-2, Unarmed Combat-2)
• Personal: education +1; UPP 4A596A

Okay, sadly did not get any of my strength back. And no promotion.
Mustering out
Nice thing is that there are some automatic mustering out benefits. Being a fighter-2, I can keep a personal weapon, and choose a hand gun of some sort. And perhaps, with any luck I may be able to regain strength. Note that as I was disabled during my final term so get double benefits: twice as many rolls so I get 10 rolls, assuming I am interpreting that correctly. I am bound to pick up some strength! I am also going to make the +2 from the officer rank 02 optional as the +1 strength is 2 and with a +2, I will never roll that! And we add the number of terms to the cash table...

• Benefit: 5 intelligence +1: UPP 4A5A5A
• Benefit: 4 education +1: UPP 4A5A6A
• Benefit: 2 strength +1: UPP 5A5A6A
• Cash: 1 + 5 = Cr40,000
• Cash: 6 + 5 = Cr50,000
• Benefit: 1, Forbidden Knowledge; 4 = Explosives-1
• Benefit: 5, intelligence +1: UPP 5A5B6A
• Benefit: 2, strength +1, UPP: 6A5B6A
• Benefit: 4 + 2, dexterity +1, UPP 6B5B6A
• Benefit: 5, intelligence +1, UPP 6B5C6A

okay, getting double benefits I think the goal may have been to allow for rehab and hope you can regain some of your physical stats. Our marine mostly got a lot smarter and a bit more educated. And only gained a third of her lost strength. And I did not even do the aging rolls...I think we'll just assume his post-mustering out physical therapy was helping that along.