General Collector Discussion

[whulorigan]

I'm pretty sure the 1D weeks is based on the class of star and the assumption that the Collector is at either 100D from the star or in the star's habitable zone; it just wasn't spelled out because before LBB6, there wasn't an official way to generate and track what kind of star a given world had.

I agree; this is probably the reason for the 1D weeks in the original ANNIC NOVA. The cooler and/or less luminous the star, the longer it takes to recharge at 100D from the star, because the original Collector was almost certainly a stellar-radiation (i.e. "photonic") collector. (Solar Panels were a popular emerging real-world technology at the time the adventure was written).

However, I was reading your post above and had an alternative thought:

What if the original ANNIC NOVA Rad-Collector was an Early (or "Alternate") tech version of the T5.10 Collector, but could only collect its "exotic particles" at a range of more than ~100D from gravity/mass sources (i.e. it doesn't work well, or with reduced efficiency, within the stronger gravity well), and the reason for the 1D weeks was because of the variable/increased exotic particle flux intensity/density outside the 100D gravity well due to the mass-displacement of the star? Thus, more massive (i.e. "hotter") stars would actually take longer to recharge than at smaller (i.e. "cooler") stars? - In other words, large displacement and/or mass-density reduces the intensity of the exotic particle flux, and the alternate/primitive Collector on the ANNIC NOVA was not able to sufficiently compensate. Standard Collectors overcome this problem with more efficient technology that makes the mass-displacement / particle flux reduction problem largely irrelevant.​

Recall that in T5.10 it is made explicit that acceleration is damaging to the Collector when deployed (and that might include gravitational acceleration from a stellar-body for such an alternate-tech Collector).


EDIT: OK I checked both JTAS 01 and DA1:Annic Nova, and it does explicitly say they are Stellar Collectors, and that the recharge time is based on the spectral type of the star. But my proposal above would seem to be a reasonable mediating retcon if you want to try and bring the one paradigm into line with the other. And "spectral type of the star" is in fact related to its mass and displacement - it does not necessarily have to mean stellar radiation luminosity or radiation frequency-spectrum.

 

[Spinward Flow]

Thus, more massive (i.e. "hotter") stars would actually take longer to recharge than at smaller (i.e. "cooler") stars?

Essentially, the stronger solar winds "blow away" the exotic particles that need to be collected more effectively, reducing collection efficiency ... effectively swamping "what you need" with a lot of stuff you don't, meaning longer "filtration" times are needed with the collector due to the unfavorable "noise to signal" ratio.

 

[whulorigan]

Of course another difference between the ANNIC NOVA Collector and the T5.10 Collector is that the ANNIC NOVA Collector provided stored electrical power for internal systems as well as powering the jump drive, whereas the T5.10 Collector can only be used to directly power jump-systems, not general electrical power generation and storage.

 

[Grav_Moped]

Of course another difference between the ANNIC NOVA Collector and the T5.10 Collector is that the ANNIC NOVA Collector provided stored electrical power for internal systems as well as powering the jump drive, whereas the T5.10 Collector can only be used to directly power jump-systems, not general electrical power generation and storage.

This is because in LBB2 '77 the power plant's only purpose was to support the maneuver drive. All other power draws were apparently inconsequential, even turret lasers. (The Jump Drive powered itself.)

In fairness, that wasn't a terribly wrong assumption, except for energy weapons.

Capturing and storing even a tiny portion of the waste heat from the Collector discharge would easily suffice for life support and low-power comms and scanners.

 

[whulorigan]

Essentially, the stronger solar winds "blow away" the exotic particles that need to be collected more effectively, reducing collection efficiency ... effectively swamping "what you need" with a lot of stuff you don't, meaning longer "filtration" times are needed with the collector due to the unfavorable "noise to signal" ratio.

That is one possibility.

But I was thinking more along the lines of the T5.10 statement that the collected particles can only power the jump drive, and not internal systems, which suggests to me that the "exotic particles" are related to jumpspace in some fashion.

So for the ANNIC NOVA Collector, perhaps only the most energetic particles have a chance of being collected in normal space thru the collector mechanism when within a significant gravity well / mass-displacement, but a wider spectrum and volume of particles can be gathered in less-stressed spacetime regions.

OTOH, the Standard T5.10 Collector would be sufficiently advanced to collect abundantly in even higher stressed (i.e. < 100D) regions, but are perhaps maxed out at that level of saturation (maybe due to inherent limitations of the technolgy) so that you do not get significantly more collection at distances greater than 100D. (Hence they always take about 1 week to recharge, regardless of stellar presence/distance, instead of the 1-6 weeks of the ANNIC NOVA Collector).

 

[Condottiere]

My, ah, response to collectors is what are exotic particles, and how were they created?

Second would be, of course, density in any particular volume of space.

 

[whulorigan]

My, ah, response to collectors is what are exotic particles, and how were they created?

Answer: Well, they're exotic . . . Ω
Real Answer: They are not specified in T5.10, so I would describe them as something as yet undiscovered that is related to Jump-superscience in some way.

Second would be, of course, density in any particular volume of space.

Based on what is minimally metioned in T5.10, I would guess they are particles related to a pervasive (and seemingly somewhat uniform) Scalar-Field throughout space or jumpspace (perhaps somewhat analogous to the Higgs-Field). But I am of course just spouting handwavium.

 

[mike wightman]

Stop thinking of them as particles, they are waves that have particle like properties when you look for them just like all other manifestations of quantum field theory.

The collector membrane is a actually layers upon layer of a mixture of a boron/graphene plus some metallic doping, Each gap generates a casamir like effect which generates the 'quantum field conditions; necessary to generate the tear into jump space. This field condition can be thought of as 'particles' which can then be sent to a container (accumulator) until sufficient 'charge' has been built up to cycle the jump drive (in much the same way as photons can be sent to a 'box' with mirrored surfaces).
(n.b. unless proven otherwise I may actually have been the idiot who first came up with the exotic jump particles handwave - I may even still have the emails to back up this claim )

 

[Condottiere]

So the collector is creating microtears in the spacetime continuum, and harvesting the particles from the multiverse?

 

[kilemall]

So the collector is creating microtears in the spacetime continuum, and harvesting the particles from the multiverse?

Jumpspace leaks?

 

[mike wightman]

No.
All we know about jump physics is what MWM has detailed in his article and T5.
1. Jump was discovered during research into a better understanding of the 'gravitics' technology that underpins the m-drive, acceleration compensation, grav plates and null grav modules.
2. The jump drive does magic that, well let's just quote MWM
"The drive’s first function is to tear a hole in the fabric of space. The hole is
precisely created and the ship naturally falls into the breach on a carefully
directed vector. The drive then directs some of its energy to sewing up
that hole again."

So we know that fusion reactors, solar collectors and antimatter can all provide the 'energy' but for some reason fission power plants can not. So my handwave was that the fusion reactor, antimatter reactors and solar collectors all somehow generate (or collect) "exotic jump particles". This is where you have to be careful as to what you mean by a particle; a particle is an excitation of a quantum field, a wave, that exhibits particle properties when you measure it. I used the word particle because 'quantum jump field excitation' is a bit of a mouthful and it is usual to use the word particle rather than wave to help explain certain effects - the photon being the classic example.

Think of jump particles as being akin to the hypothetical graviton (one day I will sit down and make up the pseudomath for this), a manifestation of a quantum field that we have yet to detect (although particle physicists are starting to think that there is indeed a 'fifth force').

Now just as photons are waves in the electromagnetic field, jump particles are waves in the jump quantum field. These particles can be guided and stored in accumulators in the collector set up, in the fusion/antimatter set up the particles or waves are generated as the fusion drive goes into overdrive mode to power the jump effect.

Is that enough handwavium to be getting on with?

 

[Condottiere]

1. Gravitational technology underlies practically all technological advancements in Traveller.

2. The creation of exotic (jump) particles is a by product of nuclear fusion; presumably solar collectors harvest exotic particles from natural fusion reactors.

3. In the MongoVerse, jump drives can be powered by non fusion reactor sources, such as diesel motors, so in those two and a half editions, this explanation wouldn't apply.

4. Collectors substitute the fuel aspect of the jump process.

5. Presumably, the hydrogen is converted to exotic particles.

 

[Condottiere]

Wait, I think it's only with Mongoose Second this occurs, so one and a half editions.

 

[mike wightman]

Antimatter reactors do it too, only fission reactors canonically don't.

 

[kilemall]

Ooof, totally ignoring the particle thing. I want fission as an option for jump. If I felt the need to have the Annic Nova around, I would just have it collect muons to initiate the near runaway fusion process for the jump. That’s pretty high tech weird enough.

 

[Condottiere]

That's why I mentioned fusion.

Anti matter likely has some form of transformation possibilities, but with fission? Maybe you have to introduce some impurities that the extra electrons can effect.

But if it's a simple matter of enough electricity, then it doesn't matter if fusion reactors create exotic particles or not.

 

[mike wightman]

A collector would not be able to gather muons. Muons are not freely available in space, they are generated by particle interactions in stars and in the Earth's atmosphere. With a half life of only two microseconds you would not collect many of them in empty space - you would have to park very close to a star or planet (within a few hundred kilometres).

 

[Condottiere]

I'm pretty sure that collectors are prohibited from operating in atmospheres.

Can't recall about gravity wells.

 

[mike wightman]

It isn't simply a matter of electricity or even electrical energy otherwise a fission plant could be used.

 

[Condottiere]

Edition specific.

And someone must have greenlit that change in canon.