MGT Only: Combat and Damage (2nd Edition)

[DickNervous]

I feel like combat with my group has gotten much more tedious as we move to 2nd edition and I wanted to make sure I'm not missing something. The problem is that it takes to long to kill someone. Here is the situation:

Players are well equipped, having been at this for over 2 years of game time, they have acquired good armor and weapons. They are all equipped with TL10 Cloth Armor (+8 armor) and Tl12 Combat Armor (+17 Armor) which gives them an effective armor rating of 25. For weapons they all have ACRs (3D), Gausss Pistol (3D)/Rifles (4D), grenade launchers (6D), and one has a Laser Rifle (5D) as well as AP ammo.

The issue is that if they come across a similarly equipped group each side is only doing 1-3 points of damage, Max, each round, if they do any. For example the ACR is 3d6. If you use AP ammo it is 3d6 AP3. So at best you can do 21 points of damage + the effect on the roll. So unless you roll (with modifiers) a 12 or better AND max damage, you do no damage to someone with 25 points of armor.

And the protection value of armor does NOT go down as combat progresses. Perhaps my players are over-equipped, but they are fairly successful in both their business ventures and pirating, so they have earned their equipment.

Am I doing something wrong, or do I need to start throwing people in battle dress with FGMPs at them?

 

[atpollard]

I am not familiar enough with second edition to really help, but are you sure the Cloth and Combat Armor stack ratings? (They did not in 1st edition).
Typically a character wears one armor or another and they do not stack.

 

[whartung]

I am not familiar enough with second edition to really help, but are you sure the Cloth and Combat Armor stack ratings? (They did not in 1st edition).
Typically a character wears one armor or another and they do not stack.

That's what caught my eye. Cloth armor isn't a T-Shirt.

 

[Cdr Vimes]

Hmm don't think the armour stacks either. In Ed1 even if it could stack the second armour value i.e. the outer layer is halved. So total would be 15 i.e. worse than Cbt Armour alone so don't stack.

Or if read rules another way take Cbt Armour as full 17 plus half the cloth,4 =21.

IMHO cbt armour can't be worn over cloth. The cloth is too bulky.

 

[mike wightman]

The armour doesn't stack.

Another tactic you could try is taking time with shots to reduce target number and hence increase effect - taking careful aim and/or sniping.

 

[steventirey1985]

TL 12 cloth armor (Central Supply Catalog 2e, page 11) can be worn under other armor and does stack. TL 10 cloth armor can not (you can't stack armor unlessit specifically says you can - see reflec for example). So at best you have 21 protection, not 25.

Armor Penetrating Discarding Sabot rounds for the ACR have AP 9, bringing the armor combo down to protection 12. You have to roll slightly above average to deal damage. Use burst fire for 3D+3 damage for a bit of help.

Gauss rifles can have APDS rounds too. Gives the weapon an AP rating of 17, leaving only 4 protection remaining against the 4D damage.

A gauss sniper rifle (also in CSC 2e) deals 5D damage with a base AP of 6, which allows some damage through on average. With APDS rounds that jumps to AP 21, completely negating the armor in question.

 

[nats]

If your players are not enjoying combat because they are too invincible then it is time to get rid of the armour and spice things up a bit somehow.

Force them to more urban areas of worlds with situations where combat armour and military weapons are banned (most of them). Only allow them to use those in true wilderness combat situations where they will go against heavy advanced soldiers and vehicles.

They should perhaps be forced to spend so much on it keeping it working that they are encouraged to get rid of it - make it stop working at crucial moments if not maintained properly. Make it become more of a liability rather than a bonus. Perhaps add some rules that allow for degradation as well and have some high costs for repair.

One good way might be to put them into a situation where they are desperate for money - they fall into debt with a criminal organisation or whatever due to a really bad mission or series of failed missions and the only way they can pay off the debts is to sell the armour.

It is a game to have fun and if players are not being challenged its time to mix things up in creative ways not just make every new enemy superpowered. That would be a bit dull and obvious to them after a while.

 

[lego zhodani]

Once you start getting quality armour the nature of casualties does change. Even with our warfare the injuries are from artillery, air attack, snipers, booby trap bombs of various types and size, attacks in base during 'down' time, transport accidents, training and domestic abuse. I'm sure basic 'gets shot by enemy' is low on the list these days.

 

[nats]

If your players are not enjoying combat because they are too invincible then it is time to get rid of the armour and spice things up a bit somehow

Another way to get rid of that armour might be to get them captured by the enemy and thereby lose all of their equipment, have to resist torture etc in a terrible jail and then give them an opportunity to escape through a wilderness to a starport perhaps with the help of a local alien inmate, whilst being tracked by the enemy.

I would certainly try to get them back to base one somehow and make them realise that the fun in Traveller is not getting equipment/armour/weapons its playing through missions and overcoming seemingly impossible odds, using nothing but their initiative and characteristics/skills.