Combat - What Do You Do?

[Mithras]

OK. Kick me in the face if you must, but Classic Trav combat does not work. No way. No how. Sorry. The modifiers at closer ranges just pile up to mince a foe.

What do you do?

This is what I do: I use free-form movement rule (ditching the rangebands), and I use most other rules, but apply armour DMs to damage and not to-hit.

I also use more general Mercenary-style combat skills.

There are a number of other tweaks I use, but ... what do YOU do??

I also use a formalized skill mechanic with combat. Read about it here:
http://trio.rpg.net/news+reviews/columns/tempus15oct02.html

 

[Uncle Bob]

We used Azhanti High Lightning/Striker combat. I still feel it is the best firearms combat system ever written for an RPG. It has just the right balance of realism, complexity, and playability.

 

[robject]

Have you tried out BRP/Runequest's rules? Their combat system appears to be relatively straightforward, but more to the point, the thing I find intriguing with it is its use of "Strike Ranks".

Strike Ranks are essentially Action Points taken one step further: it's the quantized step (a bit over 1 second?) in combat action against which all combat actions are weighed.

They're like APs in that some actions take more SRs than others.

They're unlike APs in that there is no "combat round": all action is based on the SR count. Thus a Navigator swinging a cutlass might be attacking with an SR of 3, which means he effectively rolls for a hit every third Strike Rank. Meanwhile, the Chamax Fighter that's trying to kill him has an acid attack SR of 2, meaning the ref rolls to hit every second Strike Rank.

I'm thinking that Traveller combat makes up for its use of Action Points and Combat Rounds by scaling damage appropriately? (I really don't know a lot about the relative merits of various combat systems).

 

[TWILIGHT]

Have you tried out BRP/Runequest's rules? Their combat system appears to be relatively straightforward, but more to the point, the thing I find intriguing with it is its use of "Strike Ranks".

I've been using BRP to play traveller for 20 years and its always worked fine for us...light, reasonably realistic and cinematic. We use it now for 2300AD and the cthulhu by gaslight rules for space:1889.

 

[William]

One other option you could look at is ACQ by Doug Berry. Published by BITS and available from SJG's Warehouse 23.

Doug was Infantry and ACQ is an action point based, 6 second turn, system that comes closer to representing real combat than anything else I've ever seen while remaining fairly easy to use. It's not BESM simple, but it's not Phoenix either.

Check it out if you get the chance.

William

 

[roygbiv]

Originally posted by William:
ACQ is an action point based, 6 second turn, system that comes closer to representing real combat than anything else I've ever seen while remaining fairly easy to use. It's not BESM simple, but it's not Phoenix either.

I'll second that. ACQ rocks. I've used it to inject a little "fear factor" into my PCs. Combat is now a harrowing experience for all concerned.

 

[Mithras]

Originally posted by TWILIGHT:
I've been using BRP to play traveller for 20 years and its always worked fine for us...light, reasonably realistic and cinematic. We use it now for 2300AD and the cthulhu by gaslight rules for space:1889.

Twilight, I'd really love to talk to you in some depth about your experiences using BRP for SF and historical games. Hope you read this!

 

[jchurchill]

Is anyone here so gauche as to still use the Snapshot tables and rules for small fights? [I do]

Is there a link or lead to a good combat table like the Snapshot table? Mine is pretty dogeared and abused. I have Striker but tended to use that as a supplement.

 

[Masconi]

Originally posted by secretagent:
Is anyone here so gauche as to still use the Snapshot tables and rules for small fights? [I do]

Is there a link or lead to a good combat table like the Snapshot table? Mine is pretty dogeared and abused. I have Striker but tended to use that as a supplement.

I've done a Snapshot conversion mod for the turn based wargame construction kit 'The War Engine' by Shrapnelgames.
My ct group and me use it for small combats aboard ships or enclosed areas (stations, starports, etc.).
It uses the original Snapshot/Book 1 CRT.
The mod is free, but one needs the TWE program, in order to play.

Masconi

 

[ACK!!]

We used Azhanti High Lightning/Striker combat.

Where can I find these?

Can someone, somewhere please summarize them?

I am putting together a campaign and I need something better than the Classic books style.

I thought the Azhanti High/Striker system was only for large scale combat? But people mention this in every combat thread.

Want better combat system ... please do not make me beg...

 

[binky]

Originally posted by ACK!!:
I am putting together a campaign and I need something better than the Classic books style.

One has to ask, why?

The beauty of the original system was that it was clean and deadly, which helped to disuade players from going crazy all the time. Unless you are running a Merc campaign, traveller really wasn't all about combat (unlike D&D say).

All of this of course is IMHO.

- Neil.

 

[ACK!!]

originally posted by binky: One has to ask, why?

Well, other people have asked about house rules or custom rules to the combat system. Why?

Range bonuses seem out of sync to the 2d6 system. Damage distribution system is kind of funky IMO. Andy Slack once proposed a straight Hits system but I am not sure I go for that.

A lot of people really like the Striker method. I just wanted a summary of what it is and how to use it in a CT game.

I kind of get what you are saying but I am not the only one that finds it problematic.

 

[binky]

Okay, now I understand where you are coming from and why.

I'm desperately trying to remember what the Snapshot system was like, that might be a suitable alternative. Another option might be At Close Quarters from BITS ( http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/BITS_website/Productsfolder/prod_ACQ.html ).

I have both but haven't read them for ages. I'll go dig them out and have a quick skim through.

- Neil.

 

[ACK!!]

Binky you rock!!

 

[binky]

Originally posted by ACK!!:
Binky you rock!!

Okay, done some research.

Snapshot really doesn't add much to the basic system. It's just the standard combat system with an action point mechanism to control what individuals can do.

At Close Quarters on the other hand is a major re-working. It's designed to be used with Marc Miller's Traveller but uses the BITS Task System, so is easily applicable to CT (it includes the relevent details).

It does say in it's opening paragraph however - "At Close Quaters is not intended to be used for every altercation that occurs in a Traveller game. One of the biggest mistakes a referee can make (in any role-playing game) is 'roll-playing' every little event. Simple bar-room brawls and one-shot gun fights should be played out using the normal rule system; ACQ should be used for vital combat situations or as a standalone combat game in the vein of 'classic' Traveller's Snapshot or Azhanti High Lightning."

So it looks like ACQ might be worth a look.

- Neil.

 

[ACK!!]

Originally posted by bink:
So it looks like ACQ might be worth a look.

Look like it is going to be hard for me to find it. Warehouse23 no longer carries it so I might have to go direct. Thanks.

 

[binky]

Originally posted by ACK!!:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by bink:
So it looks like ACQ might be worth a look.

Look like it is going to be hard for me to find it. Warehouse23 no longer carries it so I might have to go direct. Thanks. </font>[/QUOTE]Umm... I found it listed as available here - http://www.warehouse23.com/item.cgi?BITSRACQ

The order link shows it as $8.00 (plus shipping I assume).

- Neil.

 

[ACK!!]

Thanks silly me. How did I miss that. You are the man.

 

[aramis]

For CT, until MT came out, I used Snapshot movement and range band figuing (It jives in terms of distances with CT Bk 1), or sometimes AHL mvoement with striker combat (Changed to do dice of damage, tho... 1D6 to atts per point roll made by to 6 dice, the 2 dice per point thereafter, 1/2 die at exactly made).

Never had much problem with the CT range bands in typical firefights, since I always just assumed that the range bands on the paper were 1.5m, and the "Range bands" of weapons were in fact NOT directly represented on the movement grid.

 

[ACK!!]

And then the great Aramis said:
For CT, until MT came out, I used Snapshot movement and range band figuing (It jives in terms of distances with CT Bk 1), or sometimes AHL mvoement with striker combat (Changed to do dice of damage, tho... 1D6 to atts per point roll made by to 6 dice, the 2 dice per point thereafter, 1/2 die at exactly made).

Good ideas. I have only got the reprint for the LBB 0-8 and Supplements. The ACQ seems to be very interesting and only $8 to boot.

When I started posting on this thread I never answered Binky's question all the way through. I hate the idea of applying armor as a hit modifier. I hated in AD&D and in CT. I liked the Pentration/Attentuation stuff in MT a bit, but I don't have those books anymore.

I actually started with MT back in the day.

Anyway, I have been thinking of an easy House Rules solution using the Andy Slack Armor modifiers and applying them to the damage instead of the To-Hit. After all, what does armor do? It absorbs damage that your silly body would usually take.

It still keeps say a PGMP deadly right off the bat. Things are still kept CT simple as well. But, it resolves one of my pet peeves.

Wish there was a website with some good explanation of Striker combat rules though.

So, I could compare.