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Combat - What Do You Do?

Ok, finally I think I have this down.

The hits and damage results are from Andy Slack with one self-made out where the 1/3 rule and 2/3 rule only applies if the damage was to a major organ on the location charts or the head.

Surprise is standard issue. However, Initiative is individual not side based.

The armor values are much more in line with everything else I have seen on the web for armor values. I leave an out for high penetration weapons against flexible armor.

You have a move phase and attack phase I am not breaking any new ground here.

Range rules, autofire, spray and explosion rules are straight up from Andy Slack.

The aimed location stuff might seem a bit much but consider the fact that it gives the ref a lot of wiggle room and descriptive ammo in the combat process.

Here it is the final version -- IMTU -- My House Rules

What do you guys think?
 
Great thread. I haven't played in years, and am planning a game that my older son will be taking part in, and this stuff is a big help. Thanks for doing the legwork so I don't have to!

And hello, btw.
 
Does anything work in Traveller?

This thread began 13 years ago, so I'm not sure how things turned out for the original poster. Also, I'm well aware people don't like the CT combat rules for a variety of reasons, so I'm not advocating for them if someone doesn't want to use them.

But from what I can see... they work.

The original post was about how DMs piled up at the closer ranges.

Yes, if one is firing a Shotgun, Automatic Rifle, or Submachine Gun at Short range, you're almost guaranteed to do effective damage to the target if they are wearing no armor. I'm not sure I see how this is a bad thing, however.

Wearing armor means a better than 50% chance of taking a hit. But still, there's a chance no effective damage will be taken.

But there's this as well: CT combat is simultaneous. If you're shooting at someone, someone can shoot at you. Like most things in CT (going back to character generation) to engage in combat is a risk. At at closer ranges, those risks pile up. (Which, again, to me seems like a great idea.)

This always leaves the Sword of Damocles hanging over the PCs them moment things start getting tense. It means running for cover the moment it looks like guns are coming out. It means being smart about positioning, flanking, and so on. Because you might not be firing every round. Because to fire means to be at risk. You might be working your way closer, or pulling back, or getting around your opponent for a free shot.

All of this depends, of course, on using the system as it was original designed: small operation, paramilitary activity, for a group of adventurers on an adventure.

This means two things:

One: Classic Traveller is not about modeling military action. (If one wants a more detailed modeling of military action, the game will not work for you.) Classic Traveller is a game built to abstractly handle all sorts of adventure elements in an evening's play. The system allows the Referee to adjudicate on the fly all sorts of situations and events based on the actions and decisions of the players. But the adventure part of the equation can never be forgotten. If there is a threat of a firefight, with the rules (as was pointed out upthread) everyone knows there is danger. A tension hangs in the air. Even as a scene is playing out, the player might be working to avoid gunplay even as they start looking around for cover to duck behind. If the guns come out, then everyone knows that there's real danger and there is excitement and tension at the table about that danger.

The reason combat is deadly at shorter ranges is because it produces an "Oh, shit!" fury of declarations of actions and die rolls. One either wants that, or one doesn't. But that doesn't mean it doesn't work.*

Two:
Building from point One above, the game is about adventure fiction, not milsim. Thus, one has to ask: What is the objective in the situation taking place right now. It can't be about a straight-forward standup fight. Because why would a group of adventures head into a simple, straight-forward standup fight? They're not teens looking to prove themselves in the back alley outside a bar, after all.

So, what is the context for the conflict?

Are the Player Characters looking to get back to their ship after official have blocked their path? Are they looking to get to the alien artifact in the ancient temple that the indigenous lizard-people are guarding? Are they trying to rescue a fellow-crewmember from a bandit camp? Are they trying to escort a member of a noble house to his yacht during a coup?

These, and countless other scenarios, offer an almost infinite series of choices for the Players (and thus the Player Characters). Some will involve gunplay. Some won't. Depending on circumstances and choices, moments of the adventure might involve gunplay, and then sneaking about, then gunplay again. The gunplay might be quick, or a PC might get pinned down and then several rounds of gunplay might occur.

But clearly, given that the objectives in an adventure are seldom "To stand around and fight," and given that the combat is deadly, the Players (and the PCs) will be better served by coming up with plans and schemes that get them to their goals and get them out of trouble with as little full-on engagement as possible.

The system handles this very well, with the Referee sketching out quick details on a sheet of paper as required. Ranges are abstract, DMs for Cover and so forth are listed, and new DMs can be created as required.

We're not looking for a fully detailed field combat system in these situations. We're looking for a set of rules that can handle the tension of gunplay in the moment, with the risk stark and the results stark, and then we move on.


Again, I'm not saying the CT combat is for everyone. But it does, I believe, what it was designed to do it does well. And thus, it works.


* As a side note: NPCs lacking expertise in weapons will suffer a DM -5 for their combat Throws. As the rules assume that dedicated training of some time is required to gain expertise of a weapon in combat situations, then we can assume the that the PCs will often have an edge over a group of farmers who might be armed, but not used to combat engagement. Thus, the PCs are not always facing the same tense odds in every fight.
 
Does anything work in Traveller?

The whole game works, but it does depend on the background you are bringing into the game.

Prior to Traveller, I was using the combat system in either AD&D or Don Featherstone's skirmish wargaming rules, as both are basically one-roll systems for a combat result. Don's rules are better for Traveller because they basically have 4 skills levels for adjusting the outcome, and modifying them for either extremely expert or totally without training is not that hard.

The Traveller rules to work, but it takes longer and is a bit more complex, with more rolling. It just depends on how you approach the game.

No combat system really reflects what actually happens in combat, but there is no way of getting around that issue.
 
At the risk of necro-posting...

Interesting discussion, especially since I'm looking to get back into this after some 25 years. When I was actively playing, I wound up using Snapshot- it had the right feel. While it was deadly, it also gave some hope to surviving an armed encounter. However, for my games, I tried to tone down the hardware a bit unless it was an outright military scenario.

I'll have to give the Mongoose rules a try and go from there. ;)
 
I've recently returned to CT after decades as well. Thank god for this forum, as I'm getting lots of good tips and answers.

I like that you can still run a recognizable CT combat with just the basics. I like the skill mods, and 8+ to hit. But that's mostly it. I keep the condition mods either up or down somewhat low. Usually no more than plus or minus 1-4, winging it on a case by case basis. It's much like 1st ed DnD where you can leave out weapon speed and vs. armor mods (I always have) but it still feels like D&D combat. Range bands? I'm no gun expert, but I can wing ranges too.

The ship to ship fights? Still working on that. That will be more stripped down when I'm ready than what I do with man to man, methinks.
 
I've recently returned to CT after decades as well. Thank god for this forum, as I'm getting lots of good tips and answers.

I like that you can still run a recognizable CT combat with just the basics. I like the skill mods, and 8+ to hit. But that's mostly it. I keep the condition mods either up or down somewhat low. Usually no more than plus or minus 1-4, winging it on a case by case basis. It's much like 1st ed DnD where you can leave out weapon speed and vs. armor mods (I always have) but it still feels like D&D combat. Range bands? I'm no gun expert, but I can wing ranges too.

The ship to ship fights? Still working on that. That will be more stripped down when I'm ready than what I do with man to man, methinks.

One subtlety you need to consider when figuring space combat is the economic milieu of your players.

Are you running the CT Trade and Commerce rules? If so, your players can strike it rich and upgrade their ship with their megacredits. Then you can run a tougher universe.

If you are running the various less profit systems from later on, IMO you need to downrate the lethality, have a 'pirates don't kill or take ship if you hand over cargo without trouble' culture, or some other method for big buck outfitting like say earning equipment via escort/merc missions, an underground economy of pirated weapons, etc.
 
As to the larger issues, I would tend to agree with Creativehum's take on this issue, for most people.

In my case I went with my more complex system because I want a very very personal result for player combat (went cheap and/or light for better movement so no leg armor? too bad the rifle shot hit there- DEX to zero on a back hit? oooh spine paralysis problems, etc.).

I want them thinking feeling and visualizing the damage so the hurt, risks and heroism in the face of those risks are more real- and thinking real hard on how to avoid them.
 
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Ever since reading an article in Digest I have just described wound effects based on characteristic affected and the severity of the damage. These are for wounds that do not reduce a characteristic to 0 in one hit:
Strength - damage to muscle or ligament
Dexterity - damage to sensory and nervous system
Endurance - organ damage, blood loss
if a characteristic is reduced to 0 in one hit (not a result of cumulative damage) then I use this:
Strength - bone broken, tendon severed or massive ligament damage at a joint
Dexterity - head/spine hit
Endurance - major organ punctured/nicked artery

I don't use the weapon matrices, preferring armor as damage reduction, and my other change is to scrap the first blood rule and use it instead as a critical hit roll.
 
I locate the hit on the character, check cover and roll damage to see how effective the hit is, and from there just wing it.
 
Since re-starting actually playing after a rather long hiatus, our combat was admittedly low key & pretty much we winged it as well. It was in close quarters, no weapons other than beserk crew from Death Station. So it was more cinematic than simulationist.

I do have Snapshot, and At Close Quarters (BITS combat version), as well as Striker. If we get into gun combat I may go one of those routes (especially as I have all these really nice deck plan posters), but as the players have no combat skills I'm pretty sure we're going the path of talking our way out of things.

30 some years of not actually playing, just playing with, is not that long, right? Right? :rolleyes:
 
It seems that we're turning into the ancients... ;)

I tend towards the gritty realistic for combat- you can do it but it's probably going to cost in one way or another. Not like the old A-Team show out of the 80s where people blazed away at one another with M-16s from 20 feet away and nobody ever got hit.

Well, time to break out those rules and do some mock combats...
 
As for rules used in combat reight now I am hacking on AHL/Striker.

In individual combat AHL base selection of actions is a great base to work from, but the are a bunch of little bits that don't get filled in until one gets to Striker.

Notable parts of Striker are vehicles, but one needs to follow the example of Mr. Keith's jTas articles to build civilian vehicles. (Note one could also pull out MT design system as for the most part it is Striker) But honestly I never really ever "finish" a design, I block out the basic performance and hits parameters and a ball park price and I am done. (Note a very liberal use of Mongoose's second take at a vehicle design system works fairly well as well as long as you remember that Mongoose has no clue how big the things there are talking about are)

Another note on damage under the AHL/Striker system penetration table, I run it as an escalating scale starting at 1d6 increasing by a die with every 2 points of penetration. (a pen of 2 or 3 does 1d6 instead of No Effect, defined as blunt trauma)
 
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