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Computers...bleh.

Ishmael

SOC-13
As I've been slowly shifting my setting to be more 'cyber' and 'ghost in the shell'-like, I've had to focus attention on MT's computer rules, and I don't think they work very well. I do like the entire 'control panel' ideas for determining what's needed and its relationship to manning requirements, but the table and use in combat is not very good.

The computer table seems to link tech level with model number in such a way as to prevent things like a model 0 computer built at tech 13, and what happens when you want a model 9 computer but don't need to connect 100,000,000 panels to it; can't it be made smaller if you only need to connect to 100 panels? The table is not very flexible.
All flying vehicles, such as your typical air-raft convertible generally have 2 model 0 computers in them making them stupidly expensive...and just to handle a handful of controls; why can't they be made smaller? ( the RAW don't require 2 computers, although they suggest is a good idea for safety. In fact, unless you are using linked panels, computers aren't even necessary.)
The way computers are used in the starship combat section is ridiculous. Back in CT and HG, computers were an abstract that encompassed computers, sensors, communications, avionics, ECM, etc. where a computer DM covered the effects of all those things, but in MT, sensors and commo and ECM and avionics, etc. were factored out, yet the combat system , based on HG, still uses the computer DM in the same way making the computer more important than sensors or ECM. This is why a fighter with limited volume cannot hit a battleship with volume to spare no matter how well it rolled its sensor lock task, and that the battle ship cannot miss. I suspect that a rational update in the computer rules would change that. I intend to rewrite the space combat rules to suit me at a later date anyways. ( computer number as a dm to hit?...horseshit...how about the 'effect' from a lock-on task instead )

Computers are rated primarily by the number of CP's it can handle and the CP multiplier. I will assume that the computer can serve the number of CP's connected without lag, real-time, with dedicated cpu's represented by the CP multiplier number. This would give a model 0 tech 8 computer ( cp max=500, cp mult=5 ) a total of 2500 cpu's. By dividing stats like vol, power, cost and mass by this number, we can see a single cpu's stats. For tech-8, this makes a single cpu have a volume of .2 liters, the same as a single serial processor from CT book8 Robots.

So how about designing computers in general like CT Book 8 did them for robot brains? That'd make a tech-8 model-0 computer with a single connection have 5 cpu's for a CPmultiplier of 5 and which might represent the hardware needed to run low data and basic command with 1 cpu unit left over for other programming. IIRC, this somewhat mirrors the old CT ship computer rules. Add more memory and off-line storage as desired to keep a library of useful programs and data handy. Give each system its own dedicated computer to connect to a central main computer. Damage to computers reduces the number of CP's it can handle which takes ship systems off-line until a back-up connects and those CP's can be serviced again.
A computer's model number would be based on the number of dedicated cpu's for each process. Or perhaps using Book 8's method for determining a computer's 'intelligence' and 'education' as stats to be used as ordinary stat dm's as per the standard task rules ( in my house rules, related to stat/3 ).
A large system with many connection would have a limited number of cpu's per connection; a mainframe. A large system with few connection could have many, many cpu's dedicated to a few connections; a super-computer.
Things really start to take off when parallel processing and neural chips as envisioned by Traveller come into use where a single chip would have the computing power of several serial cpu's.

If we use the same idea with higher tech computers, cpu volume drops to mere millilitres which coincides pretty well with implanted computers people and cyber brains. Add as many as you need to have the desired computing power and programming space.

For AI, just use Robots as a guide, as well as for specific hardware additions, such as master/slave units, for tele-presence or a method of controlling exo-skeletons, such as batteldress, and radio connections to other computers without hardlines.

A rule method for hacking needs to be made, probably using programs as weapons and armor and various skills ( stealth, recon, lockpicking, forgery, et al.).
These would be rated according to the skill of the programmer with stat dm's of the computer the programs are being run on. Hacking from behind a firewall increases difficulty for each firewall operating through. Hacking directly , 'in-the-open' leads to damage taken by hacker's system directly as opposed to using firewalls as armor.
Direct neural interfaces allow for the user's brain to be used, aka wetware, such that the user's stats ans skills can be used in addition to those of the programming. Damage taken is to the user's intelligence stat with the danger of being made brain-dead.
 
The RAW don't technically require a computer at all if your CP is low enough. The canon Imperial Encyclopedia air/raft uses two Model/0's and five hololinked panels: Cr125,000, 1.15 cubic meters volume, 0.3 metric tons, delivering 37.5 control points (which is actually short of what's needed, if my math is right). However, my math says the air/raft has around 32 cubic meters available after adding all the equipment up, which means you could add 8.3 cubic meters of cheap TL7 electronic control panels, at a cost of Cr5810 and weight of 0.415 metric tons, instead of the two computers and five hololinks. Bulky, but there seems to be room for it and it drops the cost of the vehicle by Cr119,000.

The space isn't doing you any good anyway unless you're transporting feathers: with only 8 tons of thrust, the little craft can only carry about 4 metric tons before you exceed the grav's thrust.

Errata now also lets you use linked control panels without a computer, in limited quantities (I think it's 12 cubic meters). They're more expensive but less bulky.
 
so what's the difference between a tech-8 model-0, and a tech-14 model-0 computer?
by the RAW, nothing.
Why?

A classic simple air raft needs 2 model-0 and a 120 dton grav-tank needs the same by the RAW...why not different systems with different capabilities at different tech levels?

Why do no illustrations of air-rafts show a pair of 42U server cabinets attached?
http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Gallery/index.php?n=164
http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Gallery/index.php?n=1468
( by the RAW, a small air raft is the size of a small moving van )

Why can't the RAW show a difference between a mainframe and a supercomputer/numbercruncher?

Why can't the computer rules show small computers and implantable computers along with the larger brethren from the same table, and show advances* based on tech levels?

* advances in cost, size, power usage for a given capability

imho the computer rules kind of suck.
btw, the computer number is roughly proportional to the square root of the number of cpu's per control panel.
 
I remember in classic traveller where it said that the handcomp was equivalent to a model 1 computer ... did MegaTraveller drop that or carry that concept over?

I always wanted a small grav-powered personal craft where the pilot slipped a handcomp into one of those external pockets on his vacc suit, climbed into a tiny cockpit and plugged his handcomp into a jack on the ship's control panel to serve as his ship's computer.
 
FYI
DGP 101 Vehicles on pg 2 gives equivalencies (roughly) between robot brains & and MT computers. With a cross reference to RM pg 81.
 
I remember in classic traveller where it said that the handcomp was equivalent to a model 1 computer ... did MegaTraveller drop that or carry that concept over?

I always wanted a small grav-powered personal craft where the pilot slipped a handcomp into one of those external pockets on his vacc suit, climbed into a tiny cockpit and plugged his handcomp into a jack on the ship's control panel to serve as his ship's computer.

Yes, Imperial Encyclopedia has that:

"Computer, Hand: Provides services of a supercomputer (equivalent to Model/1 in computing power), plus serves as a computer terminal when linked to a larger computer (such as on board a ship)."

Computing power's not the same as data storage: the little thing may need a wee bit of support to function in the role of a Model/1.
 
I've been thinking that the maximum CP input should be a function of tonnage, while the CP Multiple should be function of TL, and cost per ton should be a function of TL. I figure minimum tonnage should be 1kL - we'll call that a "Core". The TL5 entries are primarily for real TL5 cores... which means they take the x10 size.


TLModelPowerVolWeightPriceMax CPICP Mult
500.00210.21.2105
510.00110.250.2510
600.00210.21.21005
610.00110.0505010
700.00210.21.25005
710.00110.250.225010
720.0008510.250.5571415
800.00210.21.21,0005
810.00110.250.250010
820.0008510.250.551,42915
930.00110.250.9550025
1040.000910.251.159,09130
1150.0007510.251.515,38535
1260.000810.251.355,55645
1370.0006510.251.45416,66765
1480.0006510.251.73,571,42995
1590.0005510.251.755,714,286120
16100.005510.252.1525,000,000200
17110.000910.255.051,538,461,5381000
18120.0008510.255.66,451,612,90310000
19130.000810.256.0527,777,777,77825000
20140.0003510.253.647,619,047,61950000
21150.0006510.256.252.08333E+12100000
[tc=8]Cost per 1kL core[/tc]


JumpCP Required to
Calculate Jump
J110000
J275022.5
J350000
J41500015
J53500087.5
J622500180
 
I've always figured that ship's computers are relatively big compared to hand computers (and the like) because they include all of the interface and control infrastructure that runs through the ship. You're not just sticking a computer in a room and then gluing control panels around the ship, after all. You've got all the wires and cables and the like.

Look at all the infrastructure needed to get an airspeed indicator working on an airplane, as an example.
 
I've always figured that ship's computers are relatively big compared to hand computers (and the like) because they include all of the interface and control infrastructure that runs through the ship. You're not just sticking a computer in a room and then gluing control panels around the ship, after all. You've got all the wires and cables and the like.

Look at all the infrastructure needed to get an airspeed indicator working on an airplane, as an example.

About 1L for the instrument, up to 1L for the tubes (assuming a 4m run, and 4cm^2 cross section), and about 1L for the pitot tube and static port. Really, not much. Also note: the static port tube also runs to the altitude indicator.

Note that the tubing on the S-32 I used to fly was 7mm external diameter, and ran less than 30cm to the static port, and right at 30 cm to the pitot tube.
 
I've been thinking that the maximum CP input should be a function of tonnage, while the CP Multiple should be function of TL, and cost per ton should be a function of TL. I figure minimum tonnage should be 1kL - we'll call that a "Core". The TL5 entries are primarily for real TL5 cores... which means they take the x10 size.

Pricing paradigm flawed. No computing power buildable at TL 5 is going to cost Mcr 1 at TL 8. That IS Mcr I assume.
 
About 1L for the instrument, up to 1L for the tubes (assuming a 4m run, and 4cm^2 cross section), and about 1L for the pitot tube and static port. Really, not much. Also note: the static port tube also runs to the altitude indicator.

Note that the tubing on the S-32 I used to fly was 7mm external diameter, and ran less than 30cm to the static port, and right at 30 cm to the pitot tube.

Right. So that one indicator has twice as much infrastructure as the indicator itself, by volume. Start extrapolating that out to all the various stuff on a starship, and it starts becoming clear (to me) how much of that ship's computer is made up of the TL15 equivalent of this infrastructure. The ship design rules don't have any other place for this infrastructure to be figured in, after all.
 
Right. So that one indicator has twice as much infrastructure as the indicator itself, by volume. Start extrapolating that out to all the various stuff on a starship, and it starts becoming clear (to me) how much of that ship's computer is made up of the TL15 equivalent of this infrastructure. The ship design rules don't have any other place for this infrastructure to be figured in, after all.


In MGT it is subsumed in the minimum Bridge tonnage.
 
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