Confused about Pilot/Driver skills vs. Vessel Proficiency Feats

[MrMorden]

Hi all!

I apologize if this has been asked before, but I'm having some confusion about the existence of the Pilot/Driver skills and how they relate to the Vessel Proficiency feat.

In order to competently pilot a starship, for example, do I need *both* the Pilot Skill and the Vehicle Proficiency (Starships) Feat? Or will either one suffice?

If you need both, that seems a little harsh, considering how precious Feats are. I assume the feat is just a way for a character class to be able to use a vehicle when the appropriate skill is not a class skill...is that right?

Thanks!

 

[far-trader]

You need the Feat to be comptetent, but just the Skill will let you try it with some chance. Heck I'd even let someone try it with neither, like at -8 on the checks maybe

Think of it like Vessel (Proficiency) Feat = Weapon Proficiency Feat, and Drive or Pilot Skill = BAB

In both cases you can use a Vessel or Weapon you are not proficient with using your Skill or BAB but you will be at -4 on the checks. Or in the case of similar Vessels (same group, which really only applies to Ground, Water, and Air Craft) you will be at -2 on the checks because of some familiarity.

Not much worry about it being harsh on precious Feats in my book, I think you have a lot more granted Feats in T20 than D&D3.

 

[clementk]

Another item for a FAQ IMO since it comes up often enough.

I look at it this way:

vehicle Feats = certification for that class of vehicle

driver/pilot skill = general ability

Keep in mind that most of the vehicle feats allow for driving similar classes of vehicles at a reduced penalty. Also doublecheck the feat listings. I don't have the book in front of me but IIRC learning a vehicle feat grants at least "rank-0" in the corresponding skill or something like that.

In practice most characters will know how to drive grav vehicles growing up (Homeworld feats) and most* Traveller situations shouldn't involve much more. Can't hurt to have somebody who knows how to drive or pilot something else but that's what you hire them for.

* Evil GM innocent look

 

[Flynn]

It always takes the skill to use it, but the feat removes the -4 penalty for being unfamiliar with that type of Piloting or Driving. I believe the general assumption is that Pilot or Driving are such general skills that share similar traits across a range of vehicles. The feats let you cover the specifics of a particular type of vehicle. Otherwise, the unfamiliarity grants you an automatic -4 on the skill check. Feats reflect that familiarity.

Based in concept on the Weapon Proficiency feats, and their impact on BAB.

Hope that helps,
Flynn

 

[Malenfant]

It always struck me as being redundant to require both feats and skills to drive vehicles. I can't really see what requiring both adds to the game - why not just say that if you don't have the skill you get the -4 penalty, and if you do have it then you get the bonus of whatever your skill level is? The feat seems completely redundant here.

 

[MrMorden]

I agree Malenfant...

I may just do away with the vehicle feats in my upcoming T20 game.

 

[jasper]

Done replacing q 26.
26. How does the Pilot skill and Vehicle Proficiency feat relate? Do I need both or just one?
You need both.
The feat removes the -4 penalty for operating a vehicle in which you are not certified on. Look at this way, vehicle feat is your license and drivers education class. Driver/pilot skill is general ability which is shared across a range of vehicles. An example would be a well know Captain have drive skill 4 and feat Grav vessel. When he visits a gangster planet has trouble driving the get away car. Casey, Flynn, Far-Trader.
However in YTU you can drop the feats and just rely on skills.

 

[BetterThanLife]

I don't think it is all that harsh. In CT/MT you had different skills for different vehicles. For example you needed Pilot skill for Starships, Ship's Boat for Small Craft, Grav Vehicle or Air/raft for Grav vehicles, Aircraft for flying aircraft, etc. Of those you could use pilot as Ship's Boat -1 (Effectively -3 or -4 when translated to T20) but not viceversa and that was the only one that could be used on a different type of craft.

You could not use Ship's Boat 3 as Pilot 2 or air/raft 2, much less Pilot 3.

In T20 it is one pilot skill but the feats are there for the different types of vehicles.

Like I have said many times before, T20 is great because it takes the Traveller Universe and allows it to be played using the D20 rules while retaining most of the flavour of Traveller. (Again Large Ship combat being one major problem.)

 

[Admiral Morgan]

The other thing is that for both the drive and pilot skills you are required to have a vessele feat before you can take any ranks in the skill.