Confused Newb

[Poor Merchant]

Hi,
I bought the original Traveller boxed set in the late 70's when it first came out along with a bunch of the supplements and adventures. I recall I liked the character and world creation and very much enjoyed designing starships (I favoured "real" things rather than magic - which was why I didn't play D&D). However I remember thinking the combat rules were awful (but that the rules for combat in Azhanti High Lightning were much better).

I'm now thinking of dipping a toe back in the water - and after a bit of reading online I am rather confused. There would appear to be at least five incarnations of Traveller (CT/MT/TNE/T4/T20) plus two more on the way (T5 and Mongoose Traveller). There are also at least four supported backgrounds to the game (ie time period / timeline) in addition to the different locales that I would expect.

I'm not aware of any group near me (Barnet, London) so nobody for me to just join in with. My previous campaigns have been low key affairs (no "Flash, you only have an hour to save the world" for me) concentrating on trade with a bit of exporation (Leviathan was my favourite of the original adventures).

Given the above, which rulesets and milieu should I be considering?

Sorry if this has all been addressed ad nauseum elsewhere already.

Malcolm

 

[Jame]

Well, first, welcome to the boards.

Second, if you'd rather do trade and exploration, with emphasis on trade, I'd suggest using either CT, MT or T20 (depending on which mechanic you prefer) to run something in the Spinward Marches/Domain of Deneb or in Gateway (using the Gateway to Destiny book if you can get a copy).

Third, if you go down a ways from this section of the forums you'll find the Recruiting Office http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/forumdisplay.php?f=50 , where you can see if there are any groups in your area.

 

[Spinward Scout]

Hello,

And just to confuddle things more, there's also a Hero Traveller.

 

[pendragonman]

PM

If you still have your CT stuff, and you still like it, use it. There are plenty of us Grognards around here that continue to use the CT stuff, just as it came out of the box. Use the setting you prefer, and if that happens to be the same one that came with the original box set, so much the better.

With your preference for "adventures in trade" and examining the cold, cold outer dark sections of space, CT will do just fine.

As to finding a group, the recruiting office works for finding both face to face people and play by email folks. Just make sure you mention what you are looking for in your "recruiting poster."

 

[Poor Merchant]

Sorry to sound dim - but how does play by email work? The last time I actually played a game of Traveller people were raving about the power of the Sinclair and Amiga computers...

I find it hard to visualise how PBEM would work for Traveller...but an idea to consider.
PM

 

[Andrew Boulton]

With PBEMs you simply send emails back and forth describing your actions, and the Ref tells you what happens. It works very well.

As for rules, I'd say MT - it's basically CT with better task, combat, and ship design rules.

You can get CT and MT on CD: http://www.farfuture.net/cdroms.html

 

[Gruffty]

Welcome

Welcome, Poor Merchant, to the weird and wonderful place that is Citizens of the Imperium (CotI)!

If you just want *one* system, go with MT - it does have the better task and combat system. I'd also say the Spinward Marches or Gateway are the probably the best developed areas to adventure in.

 

[Supplement Four]

Everyone has their picks. All versions of Traveller have fans.

The biggest group of Traveller players, by far, are the ones who play Classic Traveller. Still--the other rule sets get their due.

I'm a huge fan of Classic Traveller. I play it straight out of the box. Classic Setting is the year 1105+

MT is much like CT, with more structure and rules. I find it a bit confining compared to CT. Set in 1115+, the setting deals with the assassination of the Emperor and the Imperium-wide civil war that breaks out among the successors to the throne.

TNE uses the old GDW house system seen in games like Twilight 2000. It's a roll under system using a d20. And, it's a bit too crunchy for my tastes. Setting-wise, it's about the civilization that picks itself up after the devastation of the Civil War seen in MT. It's kinda like a post-apocalyptic version of Traveller, except on an Imperium-wide scale.

T4 - well, if you're going to play T4, you might as well wait and play T5. From what we've seen, T5 is basically T4 on steroids. It's a Skill + Stat for target number system, roll a handful of dice (number of dice is the level of difficulty), and roll under your target. It's close the the TNE system, but using D6s. The setting is the founding on the Imperium, Year 0.

GT is if you like GURPS. It also uses an alternate setting where the Rebellion never happened. So GT is GURPS rules and CT setting.

T20 is Traveller married to the d20 system--feats, character classes and levels, hit points, that sort of thing.

THero is Traveller using the percentile based HERO rules.

MGT, Mongoose Traveller, feels most like MT. It uses d6, but has an alternate task system.

T5, as mentioned above, is like T4. Stat + Skill for a target number. Difficulty determines how many dice thrown. Throw target or less for success.



That's the quickie overview. As I said, you couldn't go wrong using Classic Traveller rules. Many of us still do. CT has remained extremely popular over the years in spite of so many other versions of Traveller that have been created. Plus, you already own a lot of it. And, on top of this, if there is stuff you still need, the CT CD-ROM, for $35, is an incredible bargain.

Still, if you want to try out a new mechanics system (or uses one you're already familiar with), then there's plenty of Traveller versions to choose from.

 

[aramis]

If you are a GURPS Fan, or have players who are, go with GURPS Traveller or GURPS Traveller Interstellar Wars (two different settings. IW looks better to me...)

If you are a Hero system fan, or have players who are, Hero Traveller.

If you like 1d20 Roll low, and are not afraid of doublings and halvings, TNE is the system.

if you like 1d20 roll high, and/or are a D20 fan, or have same in your group, go with T20... d20 traveller.

If you want 2d6, roll high, and a scalable combat system that handles everything from man on man to regiment on regiment under one system, then it's MegaTraveller.... but there is a lot of eratta to slog through.

If you want to reinvent the wheel all the time, CT. It's playable, but it is missing a lot... but it's a solid base.

I can't recommend t4 as a system to run; I think the system is the worst piece of drekh I've ever purchased at full price. It has a few nice sub-sections.

Mo Trav isn't out yet, but it's probably still a 2d6 roll high, mostly CT compatible system, with more options.

T5 is a paid-to-play public beta test. It's T4 on massive steroids, but with CTish ships. And it is WELL over a year late.

 

[Agemegos]

GT is if you like GURPS. It also uses an alternate setting where the Rebellion never happened. So GT is GURPS rules and CT setting.

GT is extensively supported by sourcebooks for nobles, traders, scouts, the army, mercenaries, aliens, humaniti other than vilani and solomani etc. Most are available from the publisher's on-line store, others in electronic format.

And there is GURPS Traveller: Interstellar Wars, which is set in the period ranging from first contact between Terra and the Vilani to the fall of the First Imperium.

The original poster liked star-system generation. The star system generation rules in GURPS Traveller: First In are very realistic and detailed (if perhaps a bit intimidating).

 

[Golan2072]

Each version of the Traveller rules has advantages and disadvantages and fits a different style of play.

Classic Traveller (CT) is relatively rules-light, straight-to-the-point and very easy to modify, but on the other hand it has several glaring holes (such as almost no vehicles rules if you don't use the Striker wargame rules) and internal inconsistencies (it was developed over a decade of additional sourcebook releases). Classic Traveller is traditionally linked to the 1105 "Classic Era" but you could easily use it for any milieu you want, including universes of your own design.

Mega Traveller (MT) is an updated, consolidated and expanded version of Classic Traveller. It adds a significant amount of complexity and details (especially in starship/vehicle design), and many of its parts are essentially taken from the Striker wargame. It is a detailed, rules-heavy system with far less holes than in Classic Traveller - at the cost of adding much complexity. The default setting for Mega Traveller is the "Rebellion", a massive factional war tearing the Imperium to pieces; it has the disadvantage of being involved in many large-scale happenings which you might find hard to involve the players in.

Traveller: New Era (TNE) uses a rules system of its own, based on the Twilight: 2000 ruleset. It has grittiness and realism, and is even more detailed and complex than Mega Traveller, especially in its design system (which is an additional book called "Fire Fusion & Steel" and is ultra-detailed, ultra-complex). Its default setting in the New Era, after the Rebellion and a sentient computer virus have wrecked the Third Imperium of old; it is a gritty post-apocalyptic sci-fi setting. There is also an updated, far more diversified version of the TNE setting called TNE: 1248 which is a bit less post-apocalyptic and is rules-independent (i.e. could be easily and readily used with any ruleset you like).

GURPS: Traveller (GT) is an adaptation of Traveller into the GURPS system. It is a good thing to have if you and your players already know GURPS (then the rules are the same), it could be meshed with almost any GURPS sourcebook for added details, and has a wide variety of sourcebooks for itself. It is also quite a complex and detailed system. Its default setting is an alternate universe in which the "Rebellion" and the Virus haven't happened.

Traveller 4 (T4) was an attempt to return to a lighter, simpler version of the rules, essentially a modernized version of Classic Traveller. While it has several very interesting ideas and concepts and some strokes of genius, it suffered from critically insufficient editing and playtesting, meaning that it is full of errata and has some "looks good on paper, plays badly" concepts such as its task system with the notorious "half die". Its default setting is Milieu 0, the time in the distant past when the Third Imperium was only in its beginning.

Traveller D20 (T20) uses the ubiquitous D20 system (originating from D&D 3E) for Traveller, It is great to use if your players are familiar with any D20 game - then they'll dive into the rules like fish to water. Its default setting is the Solomani Rim War era a century or so before the "Classic era".

Mongoose Traveller is about to be released by the end of this month; it is essentially a modernized version of Classic Traveller and is set, by default, in a similar era.

 

[Agemegos]

Traveller: New Era (TNE) uses a rules system of its own, based on the Twilight: 2000 ruleset. It has grittiness and realism, and is even more detailed and complex than Mega Traveller, especially in its design system (which is an additional book called "Fire Future & Steel" and is ultra-detailed, ultra-complex).

I think that might be Fusion, Fire & Steel.

 

[Golan2072]

I think that might be Fusion, Fire & Steel.

Thanks for pointing out the typo - corrected

 

[Poor Merchant]

Each version of the Traveller rules has advantages and disadvantages and fits a different style of play.

Classic Traveller (CT) is relatively rules-light, straight-to-the-point and very easy to modify, but on the other hand it has several glaring holes (such as almost no vehicles rules if you don't use the Striker wargame rules) and internal inconsistencies (it was developed over a decade of additional sourcebook releases). Classic Traveller is traditionally linked to the 1105 "Classic Era" but you could easily use it for any milieu you want, including universes of your own design.

The one I remember fondly[/I]

Mega Traveller (MT) is an updated, consolidated and expanded version of Classic Traveller. It adds a significant amount of complexity and details (especially in starship/vehicle design), and many of its parts are essentially taken from the Striker wargame. It is a detailed, rules-heavy system with far less holes than in Classic Traveller - at the cost of adding much complexity. The default setting for Mega Traveller is the "Rebellion", a massive factional war tearing the Imperium to pieces; it has the disadvantage of being involved in many large-scale happenings which you might find hard to involve the players in.

I'm frankly not too sure I want to be dealing with Empirewide upheaval as well as everything else - to paraphrase the Chinese I want to live in interesting times, but probably not that interesting!

Traveller: New Era (TNE) uses a rules system of its own, based on the Twilight: 2000 ruleset. It has grittiness and realism, and is even more detailed and complex than Mega Traveller, especially in its design system (which is an additional book called "Fire Fusion & Steel" and is ultra-detailed, ultra-complex). Its default setting in the New Era, after the Rebellion and a sentient computer virus have wrecked the Third Imperium of old; it is a gritty post-apocalyptic sci-fi setting. There is also an updated, far more diversified version of the TNE setting called TNE: 1248 which is a bit less post-apocalyptic and is rules-independent (i.e. could be easily and readily used with any ruleset you like).

I also liked TW2000 - gritty I like, but PAscifi? Again probably not for my first time out.

GURPS: Traveller (GT) is an adaptation of Traveller into the GURPS system. It is a good thing to have if you and your players already know GURPS (then the rules are the same), it could be meshed with almost any GURPS sourcebook for added details, and has a wide variety of sourcebooks for itself. It is also quite a complex and detailed system. Its default setting is an alternate universe in which the "Rebellion" and the Virus haven't happened.

I've never played GURPS (again this was not even a glimmer in Steve Jackson's imagination when I last played an RPG) but a CT setting might be fine. A very quick reading shows I'll need to make a significant investment to play/Dm this (ie buy GURPS Basic Characters + Basic Campaigns, GURPS Traveller, with additional nice to haves of ULtra Tech I & II and Vehicles plus First In if I want to seriously design planets, and Starports if I want to seriously design ...starports). I get the impression that GURPS (once you have the basic rules) is something of a "supermarket" system ie you walk along the shelf picking and choosing what rules you want to add to your basket.

Traveller 4 (T4) was an attempt to return to a lighter, simpler version of the rules, essentially a modernized version of Classic Traveller. While it has several very interesting ideas and concepts and some strokes of genius, it suffered from critically insufficient editing and playtesting, meaning that it is full of errata and has some "looks good on paper, plays badly" concepts such as its task system with the notorious "half die". Its default setting is Milieu 0, the time in the distant past when the Third Imperium was only in its beginning.

Okay so I'll pass on this one then

Traveller D20 (T20) uses the ubiquitous D20 system (originating from D&D 3E) for Traveller, It is great to use if your players are familiar with any D20 game - then they'll dive into the rules like fish to water. Its default setting is the Solomani Rim War era a century or so before the "Classic era".

Now this sounds fine - I've always liked the (theoretical) simplicity of D20 systems. Okay so not 1105CE.

Mongoose Traveller is about to be released by the end of this month; it is essentially a modernized version of Classic Traveller and is set, by default, in a similar era.

Thank you all for your input. Given the multiplicity of rulesets and backgrounds available now can I presume that sensible authors include conversion data when writing sourcebooks? Or is that still too logical an idea?

I can see myself liking ideas from one subset of Traveller and seeking to adapt them to my Universe (see 48 hours in and I'm already thinking along IMTU lines) - is this difficult generally?

 

[Golan2072]

I can see myself liking ideas from one subset of Traveller and seeking to adapt them to my Universe (see 48 hours in and I'm already thinking along IMTU lines) - is this difficult generally?

Not at all. After all, Traveller was first created as a generic sci-fi RPG to build your own universe with; the Official Traveller Universe (OTU) was invented later on. Most Traveller rulesets aren't too tightly tied to their "default" settings - you could use them with any setting you like (you could use CT rules to play in the TNE setting, for example, without too many problems). And you could graft parts from one setting into another fairly easily.

 

[rancke]

Thank you all for your input. Given the multiplicity of rulesets and backgrounds available now can I presume that sensible authors include conversion data when writing sourcebooks? Or is that still too logical an idea?

Some books have data for more than one version, but that takes up space that could be used for other purposes, and most don't.

I can see myself liking ideas from one subset of Traveller and seeking to adapt them to my Universe (see 48 hours in and I'm already thinking along IMTU lines) - is this difficult generally?

It's pretty common. The only reason to stick to official material is that it increases the likelihood that you will be able to use future material. If there's some aspect of the OTU you don't like, odds are you won't like any material that is based on it anyway, so why not change it to something you do like?

I will suggest that you consider getting a subscription for JTAS Online (http://jtas.sjgames.com). $20 will buy you 52 issues (~150 articles) over the next two years. It will also buy you access to the archive, which at the moment contains 1036 articles, including 107 Amber Zones (adventure outlines), 124 Casual Encounters (NPC descriptions), 78 Campaign Settings, and 58 Short Adventures (more fleshed-out adventures, albeit still sketchy -- the maximum word count for articles is 5000).

Most of those articles are rules-light. The NPCs tend to be statted for GURPS, but they can be converted.

You may or may not be interested in the Regina Startown Campaign. It's a group of articles written to function as a beginners' campaign for people who're new to the Traveller Universe. It's confined to one location (Regina Startown), so it doesn't really matter how much or how little anyone knows about the rest of the universe. And once GM and players have gotten used to life in Startown, they can expand their interest to other parts of the universe. Just search the archive for 'Regina Startown'.


Hans

 

[Hemdian]

which rulesets and milieu should I be considering?

First off you shouldn't feel constrained to use the default milieu of the ruleset you choose. My personal choice is MegaTraveller rules but set in the Classic era Spinward Marches ... but there is substantial errata to deal with that might be too much for starting out. I also like the personal combat system in MegaTraveller compared with Classic ... but it is very poorly explained.

Conventions can be a good place to try things, BITS have always run sessions of Traveller at Gencon UK typically using either T4 or GURPS but this year almost certainly Mongoose and maybe T5. I get the feeling the BITS adventures would be to your style too. Before then BITS are at Salute ... but no RPGs and I'm not sure if there's going to be any ACQ demos (alternative combat system).

 

[Agemegos]

Thank you all for your input. Given the multiplicity of rulesets and backgrounds available now can I presume that sensible authors include conversion data when writing sourcebooks? Or is that still too logical an idea?

Not as much as you might like.

I can see myself liking ideas from one subset of Traveller and seeking to adapt them to my Universe (see 48 hours in and I'm already thinking along IMTU lines) - is this difficult generally?

Well, seeing that you are thinking in terms of Traveller as a generic SF RPG rather than of a canonical OTU, I'll point out that GURPS has further support for SF games, even beyond its extensive Traveller materials. There is the GURPS Space genre book (which contains, among other things, a starsystem generation sequence similar to but even more detailed and realistic than that in GURPS Traveller: First In), GURPS Biotech and GURPS Ultra-Tech cover equipment &c. for recent SF (in case you don't want to be stuck with Traveller's '60s SF tech assumptions), and GURPS Spaceships. And there are GURPS sourcebooks for other SF settings, including modern hard-SF Transhuman Space and licensed properties such as GURPS Lensman, GURPS Planet of Adventure, GURPS Prime Directive (Star Trek), etc. etc. etc.

The investment in buying and learning GURPS's basic rules not only gives you access to GURPS Traveller, but also equips you for a plethora of SF, fantasy, and other settings. The same is true to a certain extent in teh case of Traveller HERO.

 

[JAFARR]

First, Welcome aboard.

Of course you can also cut and paste. Personally I like CT with MT character generation or conversely MT with High Guard rules both with my own version of combat.

If you do not have the different rule sets, the CDs mentioned before are great, assuming the MT version is as good as the CT version.

 

[Icosahedron]

I get the feeling the BITS adventures would be to your style too. Before then BITS are at Salute ... but no RPGs and I'm not sure if there's going to be any ACQ demos (alternative combat system).

The British Isles Traveller Support group produce a number of useful GM aids in the time-honoured A5 supplement booklet format. One of these, At Close Quarters, is essentially an updated version of the AHL combat rules, but with a bit more complexity/realism.

Agemegos, I'm intrigued by your statement about GURPS Space having a more detailed and realistic SysGen than First In.
I've intended for a while to get a copy of FI for its SysGen, now I'm not sure. I only want to buy one of them, and the systems need to be Traveller compatible as well as detailed and realistic - which would you (or anyone else, please) recommend?