Corsair Stats

[MUELLERBADENER]

I have a good looking deck plan for the Nishemani 440 dton Corsair, but no stats or description. Does anyone here have them, or can direct me to where I can find them? Even better if someone has already done a conversion to Mongoose Traveller that would be fantastic. Thanks, MB.

 

[kilemall]

According to this thread, that's a Megatraveller version of the classic Type P corsair. So I would assume it's somewhere in the MT books.

http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=30513

 

[GypsyComet]

Type P (and other "Corsairs") deckplans published. Some, but not all of these were accompanied by stat blocks:

Iron Fist Corsair, 400 tons, CT, High Passage #2
Raider, 400 tons, CT, Letter of Marque
Corsair, 400 tons, CT, Corsairs of the Turku Waste (Judges Guild)
"Jolly Roger", 400 tons, CT, Third Imperium (fanzine) #4
Corsair, 440 tons, MT, Traveller's Digest #15
Nightspeed Corsair, 440 tons, MT, Challenge #62
Corsair M:0, 400 tons, T4, T4: Starships
Corsair M:0, 400 tons, T4, Annililik Run
Buccaneer, 400 tons, T20/CT, Golden Age Starships 6-Corsair
Corsair, 400 tons, MGT, Core Rule Book

Chameleon Commerce Raider, 800 tons, CT, Adventure Class Ships Vol 1 (FASA)
Shark Raider, 1000 tons, CT, Variant v1n1
Cobra Corsair, 200 tons, TNE, Challenge #75
Ueknou Corsair (Vargr), 400 tons, MT, Vilani & Vargr (DGP)
Drinax Harrier, 200 tons, MGT, Pirates of Drinax (Mongoose)

One of the classic Types to not have a completely official deckplan in the CT era, the Type P has as many different looks as authors. The biggest reason, I suspect, is that the original description had the ship able to engulf a Type S and fly off with it. Anyone who has done that geometry knows that a 400 ton ship that can swallow a 100 ton ship is going to look a lot like the 100 ton ship. There is just not enough additional volume for it to look otherwise. For this reason, most attempts at the Type P have ignored the "swallow" part, and simply have that much cargo capacity, or external grapples that can carry something that big outside, or similar.

The Type P was one of the ships that gained 10% in volume during the conversion to MegaTraveller. While DGP gave the the "typical" Type P its class name, the Nishemani Type P did not get a deckplan in print until GURPS (though there are a couple excellent fan renditions).

The other question for the Type P is, of course, "who builds a specific pirate ship?"

 

[mike wightman]

Just go back to the original:

Corsair (Type P) Based on the type 400 hull, the corsair is fitted out with
jump drive-D, manoeuvre drive-F, and power plant-F, giving it a capability for
jump 2 and 3g acceleration. A model 2 computer installed, and contains
a standard software package. Most important to this ship are the three triple
turrets, although each turret is equipped with only one beam laser. Ten staterooms
serve as quarters for the crew (pilot, navigator, three engineers, and assorted thugs
and cutthroats numbering up to five more); twenty low berths are available for
emergency use, or to hold captives. The ship is not streamlined, and there are no
ship's vehicles or boats. Fuel capacity is 120 tons, and cargo capacity is 160 tons.
Notable features on the corsair are large cargo doors and variable identification
features. The large clamshell doors can open to reveal the entire cargo bay; the ship
can accept a 100 to ship into its cargo bay. The ship has several centrally controlled
identification features which can alter the shape and configuration of the ship
at a moment's notice; fins retract or extend, modules appear or disappear, and
radio emissions alter frequency and content. The ship's transponders can be altered
to identify the vessel as having any of a variety of missions and identities.
The approximate value of the corsair is Cr180,000,000, but this price would be
difficult to obtain on the open market, as the ship is of a non commercial type,
and its lineage and paperwork are of uncertain origin. It could probably bring
about one quarter its value.

 

[Ulsyus]

The other question for the Type P is, of course, "who builds a specific pirate ship?"

That's the million-credit question isn't it? Ship owners granted letters of marque are going to turn up in conflict zones, but they'd have to be pretty up-gunned to take on even normal patrol craft, esp SDBs with their non-jump increase in firepower. Maybe in frontier zones with more letters so the government doesn't have to spend as much on patrol craft, but they'd be taking on their cousins then. These questions probably need the socio-economics of an area detailed to develop a rational explanation.

Just go back to the original:

The variable transponder bit is the real sticking point. Given the capability that thing offers it would be worth quite a bit. To maintain the security of the space ways wouldn't the Imperium severely restricted theses to its own interests? If on was developed, wouldn't it be likely that it would be part of a slow-burning measure/counter-measures duel?

 

[mike wightman]

Ask yourself why there is a pirate career - with a pension plan and purpose built ships...

 

[CliffBates]

Cause in a world without FTL communication that is much much faster than a week or several weeks travel time, opportunities arrive for people who have no qualms will killing people to make a buck...

God help you if the Navy comes after you, but if you do it right you can hit and run. Look at the whole Vagar region which seems to live off piracy.

 

[Brandon C]

Ask yourself why there is a pirate career - with a pension plan and purpose built ships...

I once proposed that most pirates are off-the-books mercenaries financed by Imperial megacorporations (and by extension, Imperial nobility). Pirates are used to disrupt the operations of rival corporate ships without using your own corporate ships.

Since the Imperial Navy clearly could crush piracy if it wanted, it is clear that -- due to the financial interest of the nobles -- the Navy doesn't really want to crush piracy. The IN mostly limits itself to truly independent pirates, who are under not even the tiniest amount of control.

 

[Drakon]

I once proposed that most pirates are off-the-books mercenaries financed by Imperial megacorporations (and by extension, Imperial nobility). Pirates are used to disrupt the operations of rival corporate ships without using your own corporate ships.

Interesting idea. Independent pirate fleets, with brokers throughout the imperium, matching jobs to abilities. Would nobles have a special web magazine that advertise the various pirate bands/fleets? Does the Dread Pirate Roberts franchise exist in the stars?

Obviously, the magazine/webazine/ would not be read by the noble, but by his loyal seneschal. "Seneschal's Digest"

Since the Imperial Navy clearly could crush piracy if it wanted, it is clear that -- though the financial interest of the nobles -- the Navy doesn't really want to crush piracy. The IN mostly limits itself to truly independent pirates, who are under not even the tiniest amount of control.

I see piracy as simply the way the Vargr are, the way they pull the levers of power. Whoever can command the loyalties and ambitions of more and more vargr, ships and fleets gets what he wants. I see the Vargr of the Wilds kind of like the Vikings of the 900 AD.

At least in Corridor, the fleets kept the Vargr pirates at bay right up until the fleet were recalled. Its not that they didn't want to crush pirates, they had to go get slaughtered by Dulinor instead.

 

[Ulsyus]

Is there a quick & dirty mechanism for working out the strength of a systems SDB or local patrol forces used to counter piracy? Maybe something using population, TL, trade indices & such?

 

[savage]

I once proposed that most pirates are off-the-books mercenaries financed by Imperial megacorporations (and by extension, Imperial nobility). Pirates are used to disrupt the operations of rival corporate ships without using your own corporate ships.

Since the Imperial Navy clearly could crush piracy if it wanted, it is clear that -- due to the financial interest of the nobles -- the Navy doesn't really want to crush piracy. The IN mostly limits itself to truly independent pirates, who are under not even the tiniest amount of control.

I agree with Drakon to a point.

Although, megacorps supporting corsair activity is a rather old CT concept (Shadowrun-like, if you will) they're probably not obliterating rivals as a norm. We actually see that militarized corporate defense ships are rare. From OTU, an AHL was sold to a corp fully armed which took it into Vargr territories. The Navy wants it back.

They are working outside 3I to establish control over new claims, defending interests against the Zho, Vargr, Aslan and Solomani. Perhaps they destabilize enemy shipping during the Solomani Wars and Frontier Wars.

Certainly the Imperium does not accept corporate military rivalry in the Imperium. the repercussions would be vast. Stephen would not play that game. We see a definite difference between Mercenary ships and Corsairs. Let's take a modern car. It would not take much for companies to start building replicas of the VW Bug. They reverse engineer it and move forward.
I'd rather see Corsairs as Free/Far/Fat Trader look-a-likes built for work outside the Imperium. Of course, they'll work there way back into the Empire. It's hard to keep them out. Some would logically be common refits of standard traders!

Some are purpose built but there is no reason the Broadsword Merc Cruiser 800dt (CT, MT, TNE...), Javelin Merc Cruiser (T20), etc. could not become pirate/privateer vessels as well.

 

[mike wightman]

Megacorporations maintain quiet extensive 'commerce protection' vessels, canonically including squadrons of Gazelle class close escorts.
Megacorporations also engage in trade war - again canon.

I think it's time to repost this:

Privateers and Gentlemen - piracy in proto-Traveller, well MTU at least…

In the original Library Data the first/lowest tier of Imperial government is the sub-sector Duke.
They are tasked with seeing to the economic well being of the worlds within their sub-sectors, overseeing the deployment of Imperial resources, and ensuring that worlds pay their taxes

Rivalry exists between sub-sector Dukes, they are competing for limited Naval assets, they are trying to encourage megacorp involvement within their sector, and they are constantly striving to exploit the resources the sub-sector offers.
A sub-sector Duke who can encourage the development of a couple of high pop worlds, or a nice mix of industrial, rich and agricultural worlds, will have considerably more influence at the sector level - and may even aspire one day to that lofty position.

How to stop your neighbours doing the same? What if a world just over the sub-sector border offers great trade potential?

Megacorportions are the power behind the throne of the Imperium. They exploit the resources, operate the refineries and factories, and transport the goods to market.
They conduct exploration - to find new markets and resources - they conduct research and development - to stay ahead of the competition, they found colonies, buy and sell whole worlds, and pay their taxes...

So what if a rival company is making inroads into your market share? What if a world that used to provide the raw materials for your factories decides to trade with someone else? What if an upstart transport company starts to undercut your transport monopoly? What if another megacorporation perceives your foothold in a particular region to be weak and ripe for takeover... hostile takeover.

Individual planets are free to govern themselves as they see fit. They are free to build their own naval ships, to subsidise trade, develop their own economies, and exploit their own resources...

So what if a rival world has ambitions to claim an uninhabited part of your system, or you want to develop the potential in another worlds system because they lack the resources?

So basically I can see how each of the above groups would sponsor raiders within the territory of their rivals.

By claiming "Trade War" you have partial immunity from the IN blowing you out of space because of your activities. The letter of marque is a natural extension of this IMHO.

This helps me to explain three things:

how the pirate career can have such a well-defined structure, including a pension plan

where Corsair class "speculative traders" come from (and why it is a standard design)

 

[Ulsyus]

Megacorporations maintain quiet extensive 'commerce protection' vessels, canonically including squadrons of Gazelle class close escorts.
Megacorporations also engage in trade war - again canon.

I think it's time to repost this:

So basically I can see how each of the above groups would sponsor raiders within the territory of their rivals.

If this is accepted behaviour by corporations & nobles, does that mean the 3I accepts piracy? Or would there be rules to protect third parties and the innocent? Would it be a larger scale version of nobles dueling? What's the impact threshold for the IN stepping in & shutting down a corsair campaign?

 

[mike wightman]

The Traveller Adventure has the definitive guide to tradewar.

 

[savage]

Suppose I'll have to review that reference in canon.


A must read for thinking about corsairs. Here is a great adventure seed around piracy from the real world:


http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/29/w...-men-a-last-resort-for-stolen-ships.html?_r=1

 

[aramis]

If this is accepted behaviour by corporations & nobles, does that mean the 3I accepts piracy? Or would there be rules to protect third parties and the innocent? Would it be a larger scale version of nobles dueling? What's the impact threshold for the IN stepping in & shutting down a corsair campaign?

My read of it is more, "Piracy is Outlawed; inter-corporate warfare and local system vs local system warfare is tolerated, and Privateers are Given the Wink–N-Nod so long as their target is of the faction they claim to have a letter of marque against..."

Note that the Imperial Rules of War preclude (1) general Civilian Bombing, (2) Use of CBR weapons against surface targets (tho' space is a gray zone), (3) destroying the means of life support.

Defense industries are targetable, but non-defense industries aren't. Hiding your defense industry in your doll factories simply gets your doll factories declared military, and if a sufficient complaint arises that the Impies investigate, and you're found to have moved any defense specific stuff into the target zones, you may find yourself being severely punished by the IMC and/or IN.

And/or Sir Waziznam of Weristdat, imperial agent, shoots the various planetary defense ministers publicly... and then liquidates their assets to make war reparations to their subjects and their enemy.

 

[Travellerspud]

assuming some form of sub-sector "admiralty court" exists to "lawfully" pass judgement on if the prize was "lawfully" taken, the sub-sector duke could profit nicely from a trade war (getting shares of prize money from both sides)...balancing his profits against the sector duke's anger (or even worse, the arch-duke!) A duke might even instigate a trade war if he needed funds ("unintentionally", say by offering a lucrative trade franchise to whichever megacorp ships the most freight over a certain period....at the lowest loss rate)

 

[Condottiere]

The Solomani Confederation has a greater tolerance of corporate warfare and interplanetary conflicts, up to a point.

 

[Ulsyus]

My read of it is more, "Piracy is Outlawed; inter-corporate warfare and local system vs local system warfare is tolerated, and Privateers are Given the Wink–N-Nod so long as their target is of the faction they claim to have a letter of marque against..."

I think this is where the setting leaves us a little up in the air. In 1100 years of 3I history the legal types would have nailed this one down fairly early on, as it involves such a huge number of credits.

I can see this having originated in the time of the Sylean Confederation's expansion (Milieu 0) when barb-states and pirates from outside the expanding SyCon were blamed for all sorts of things. Some of those pirates would have been caught though, and it's likely some of those that were on the payroll of corporate opponents would have spilled the beans on who was supplying or directing or employing them.

If piracy is a crime, then is a corporation employing "privateers" with "letters of marque" an accessory to piracy? Of has the 3I made privateering legal? If that's the case, what's the implication for the arming of civilian vessels inside the 3I?

 

[mike wightman]

All the answers can be found in the Tradewar scenario in the Traveller Adventure. There is so much written that I can't cut and paste it under fair use policy.

Short version - the rules have been agreed for a long long time and as long as the war is conducted according to those rules the Imperium will be unlikely to intervene.

So long as the dispute doesn't hurt 'civilians' or affect the local economy too much (taxes are still being paid) the Imperium will turn a blind eye.